Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 6636 times)

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Offline number_n9ne

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Selfishly, I hope Crowder stays a sticking point, because I picked up a Crowder jersey during that 80% off sale last week hahaha. This already happened to me once with Rondo... Bought a jersey, traded the next week. Don't break my heart again Ainge!

Seriously tho, keep Crowder, have Butler play SG, and get more length next to Thomas. I love Bradley but him, Thomas and Smart can't all get paid.

You should have known better and bought a Zeller or Young jersey

Hahahaha TP!
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Offline Atzar

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I might get upset if I knew what the rest of the offered package was. 


Then again, I might be upset if I knew what the rest of offered package was before the possible addition of Crowder.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.


Offline RJ87

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If we get to keep AB and Smart, move Crowder and lets get on with it. Bulls aren't going to just give us Jimmy because we say so,we're going to actually have to give them something in return.

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Offline A Future of Stevens

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I am just still worried about Butler's attitude problems. Like I don't want him to start throwing IT and smart under the bus if the team loses a couple games in the season. He has already done that once.

Not cousins level of hot head, but it is a tiny pink flag.
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Offline JHTruth

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If Danny truly passes on Butler just to keep Crowder, then that is simply madness. Insanity. You're going to pass on a two-way stud like Butler just to keep Crowder? ****

Online Fan from VT

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First, this is all posturing. Ainge isn't stupid enough to let a role player hang up a chance to acquire a Top 10 player in the league.

Second, as for the unrequited love of Crowder's contract in this thread, were that true - and I doubt it is - then Celtics fans would have a CLEAR message from Grousbeck and the owners: We're cheap, and we're happy just being relevant. Forget about Banner 18.

If y'all are so attached to Jae Crowder, then maybe Ainge should offer Chitown TGJB - The Great Jaylen Brown.

Personally, I'd need to know what the proposed deal is to fully evaluate what Aldridge is saying. I know this: I'm ready to move Avery Bradley. Achilles issues don't just go away in the dark of night, and when they return, value plummets.

The cheap contract isn't just value for the owners' pockets. It's value in the effort of team building. Whether or not it's overvalued is a different argument. But I don't think it's accurate to assume it's about the financial bottom line.

If you're serious about a championship, you don't allow a role player on a cheap contract to become an albatross - unless you've got the Green Teamer glasses on as an owner and said role player is one of your "favorites."

If that's the case, you're not going to build a champion anyway. Your judgment is fatally clouded.

It's definitely more complicated than that. This isn't baseball; bill barnwell, when writing about NFL, talks about "opportunity costs" a lot. Due to the cap, players are not added in a vacuum, and additions have consequences, and it it worth keeping those in perspective. We don't know a lot of behind the scenes stuff, but grabbing Butler and his contract now represents loss of players and loss of space. So it's not just "is Butler better than Crowder," but "for the next 3 years, is Butler better than Hayward, Fulz/Ball/Jackson, and Crowder," which is a legit question. Butler is not on the level of Durant/James/Anthony Davis/Curry, etc. He has a shaky 3 point shot, which makes me worried a little about the duration and sustainability of his prime. Also, this is by far his best year, by a lot, which makes me legit concerned it is not the "new normal," but rather could easily be a bit of a fluke year. So you also have to keep in mind you might be giving up what we'd be giving up for the Jimmy Butler of last year and the year before, rather than the Butler of this year, which is another half step down.

Offline Bobshot

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Let's look at this another way.

Butler's contract is about $20M per year for 3 years. That's about $10M lower than what he would cost as a max FA this summer.

The $10M savings exceeds Crowder's salary.

It's still a buy with Crowder. Ainge's payroll guy has already pointed that out to him. He'll cave, and the Bulls know it.

Offline Androslav

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Selfishly, I hope Crowder stays a sticking point, because I picked up a Crowder jersey during that 80% off sale last week hahaha. This already happened to me once with Rondo... Bought a jersey, traded the next week. Don't break my heart again Ainge!

Seriously tho, keep Crowder, have Butler play SG, and get more length next to Thomas. I love Bradley but him, Thomas and Smart can't all get paid.
You should have known better and bought a Zeller or Young jersey

Hahahaha TP!
TP, LOL
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Offline The Oracle

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

When you have the ability to add a guy who multi-time all defensive teamer who is averaging 24/6/5 then, I'm sorry, but Crowder is not untouchable.

There is nothing Crowder does that Butler doesn't do.  And everything that they both do, Butler does better.  Except maybe three point shooting, but Crowder didn't do that much better then Butler the previous few seasons.

Contracts matter too.  Every team has a budget.  The Celtics will not be able to afford Bradley, Smart, and IT after next season.  They will be able to afford IT, Smart, and Crowder.  Trading Crowder means this trade costs you both him and Bradley, and whatever else the Celtics are giving up.  Unless you're down with something like Brooklyn 2017, Bradley, and Crowder to begin with, in which case we have an irreconcilable disagreement on Jimmy Butler's value.

You don't actually know this for a fact, you are just guessing.

Boston will have Bird Right's on all of these players, and thus can afford them if they are willing to pay the luxury tax bill.

I would be willing to bet Wyc is willing to pay it for at least a few years, until Boston starts to get hit with the repeater tax.

Whatever man.  Keep living in happy fairy land where the Celtics are willing to pay $30 million a year in luxury tax bills.  Even keeping Crowder, along with Smart, IT, Butler, and Horford, is very likely to send the team a few million over the tax line, and hit the team with a $5-10 million bill.  Every dollar more that Bradley makes more than Crowder will cost the team about $2.50 in luxury tax.  So when Crowder is scheduled to make $7.2 million in 2018, if Bradley gets $15.2 million (a perfectly reasonable number, if not arguably low), the Celtics will owe an extra $20 million in tax bills.  And then the next summer, when Butler opts out and has his salary increase by another $12 million?  That's easily an additional $30 million in tax bills, bringing the total to near $60 million. 

That isn't sustainable, and the difference between Bradley and Crowder, in terms of long-term planning, is immense.  A team with IT, Smart, Butler, Crowder, and Horford as the top 5 probably has a total luxury tax bill of $35 million over the next three seasons.  Swapping in Bradley for Crowder is about $90 million over the same time.  That's a lot of money, and I strongly suspect more than they're willing to pay to keep Bradley (considering I'm guessing he makes about $30 million over those final two seasons as well).  In other words, $90 million to keep Bradley the extra two years that Crowder has on his contract.

Crowder is untouchable.
Exactly!  You simply cannot trade away all of the cheap contracts and keep all the guys that are staring at huge pay increases.  The C's are going to pay some luxury tax for sure but there are limits.  Crowder is the only for sure rotation guy on a cheep deal going forward beyond next year.  Great explanation Saltlover!

Offline BitterJim

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If Danny truly passes on Butler just to keep Crowder, then that is simply madness. Insanity. You're going to pass on a two-way stud like Butler just to keep Crowder? ****

Depends on the package.  If the sticking point is Crowder in a deal like AB+Crowder+Nets 2017 pick, I don't blame him.  If Crowder's the holdup in a straight up swap, then it's a problem.  But without knowing more about the situation, you can't say that it's "madness" to not want to include him.
I'm bitter.

Offline kozlodoev

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Butler's contract is about $20M per year for 3 years. That's about $10M lower than what he would cost as a max FA this summer.

The $10M savings exceeds Crowder's salary.
Now take those "excessive savings" and go sign someone as good as Crowder with them, how is that going to work? We're not trying to save Wyc and co's money here.
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Selfishly, I hope Crowder stays a sticking point, because I picked up a Crowder jersey during that 80% off sale last week hahaha. This already happened to me once with Rondo... Bought a jersey, traded the next week. Don't break my heart again Ainge!

Seriously tho, keep Crowder, have Butler play SG, and get more length next to Thomas. I love Bradley but him, Thomas and Smart can't all get paid.

You should have known better and bought a Zeller or Young jersey

Hahahaha TP!

Please go buy a Pablo Sandoval jersey ASAP!

Online nickagneta

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Pretty difficult to get emotional on this subject when we don't know what the total package is that the Bulls are asking for. If Ainge has already decided to give up a Nets pick and Brown, then I can see his reluctance to want to give up his starting SF on one of the best long term contracts in the league to fill out that package. An expiring contract like Zeller should be enough to get that deal. If the package is just the Nets pick and filler, then holding back Crowder is hurting the team, throw him in.

If the package is....

then......

I could go on for all sorts of combos. Best to wait to see what the deal is before getting upset about who is or isn't in the trade.

Offline BlackCeltic

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I would give up Avery and Crowder if it means we hang on to our 17 Nets pick. Once that shoe dropped, Id trade the 17 Nets pick for PG13 or Drummond.

Offline LGC88

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Pretty difficult to get emotional on this subject when we don't know what the total package is that the Bulls are asking for. If Ainge has already decided to give up a Nets pick and Brown, then I can see his reluctance to want to give up his starting SF on one of the best long term contracts in the league to fill out that package. An expiring contract like Zeller should be enough to get that deal. If the package is just the Nets pick and filler, then holding back Crowder is hurting the team, throw him in.

If the package is....

then......

I could go on for all sorts of combos. Best to wait to see what the deal is before getting upset about who is or isn't in the trade.

Some can't handle the pressure, they need to blow some steam for any reason  ;D
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