Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 9705 times)

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Online saltlover

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

This is not true at all. Not when you are replacing him with a better player who plays the same position.

Butler at his contract better value than Crowder at his contract.

Chicago can have one of Bradley or Crowder, I really don't care which, just not both.

You should care.  If the Bulls get Bradley, Crowder remains a Celtic.  If the Bulls get Crowder, Bradley leaves after next year, so you've lost both, which you just said you didn't want.

Offline Phantom255x

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Look I love Butler.

But 2017 BKN Pick, Bradley AND Crowder + more for Butler?

NO WAY.

Way to go Danny! Resist.

And come on people, NO the Bulls aren't fine with 2018 BKN they are obviously asking for the 2017 BKN Pick.

Offline dreamgreen

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People have to realize if you want to add better talent you have to trade pieces that other teams want.

AB, Crowder and this years Nets pick is a package teams want and I would do that for either Butler or preferably George. IMO it's a good deal for both teams.

Offline KGs Knee

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

When you have the ability to add a guy who multi-time all defensive teamer who is averaging 24/6/5 then, I'm sorry, but Crowder is not untouchable.

There is nothing Crowder does that Butler doesn't do.  And everything that they both do, Butler does better.  Except maybe three point shooting, but Crowder didn't do that much better then Butler the previous few seasons.

Contracts matter too.  Every team has a budget.  The Celtics will not be able to afford Bradley, Smart, and IT after next season.  They will be able to afford IT, Smart, and Crowder.  Trading Crowder means this trade costs you both him and Bradley, and whatever else the Celtics are giving up.  Unless you're down with something like Brooklyn 2017, Bradley, and Crowder to begin with, in which case we have an irreconcilable disagreement on Jimmy Butler's value.

You don't actually know this for a fact, you are just guessing.

Boston will have Bird Right's on all of these players, and thus can afford them if they are willing to pay the luxury tax bill.

I would be willing to bet Wyc is willing to pay it for at least a few years, until Boston starts to get hit with the repeater tax.

Online JBcat

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

I agree, and IMO people are throwing easily overpays for Butler, more than the Kings received for Cousins.

If we are going to look at recent trade history what we should consider giving up look at the Love trade.  A first in Wiggins, a decreasing prospect in Bennett and salary but a solid player in Thaddeus Young (part of a 3 way trade).

So I would say the Nets 17, Rozier, and any combo of Johnson, JJ, and Zeller would be the most I would go. Maybe 1 or 2 late picks but that's it. Start Butler at SF. You then have Smart, Crowder, and Brown backing up the 1-4 spots (for small ball 4 lineups). 

Also name a team where the Bulls can do better.  That Nets pick is gold for a trade.

Offline Phantom255x

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People have to realize if you want to add better talent you have to trade pieces that other teams want.

AB, Crowder and this years Nets pick is a package teams want and I would do that for either Butler or preferably George. IMO it's a good deal for both teams.

Sorry but I don't see how Butler is that much better than Bradley+Crowder.

Also seeing the Cousins deal recently I'm a lot more hesitant to give that up for Butler.

I'd do 2017 BKN Pick + Bradley but not Bradley + Crowder. Sorry.

Offline The Oracle

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

This is not true at all. Not when you are replacing him with a better player who plays the same position.

Butler at his contract better value than Crowder at his contract.

Chicago can have one of Bradley or Crowder, I really don't care which, just not both.
They play the same position (wing) of which there are 2 or more on the floor at all times anymore.  The idea is to pair Crowder/Butler and not Bradley/Butler, it allows for you to switch everything much better on defense because they can both guard up and down a position+.  Bradley/I.T. is just to small and causes to many problems.  G.S. is a good example with Thompson/Durant/Iggy, the C's want Butler/Crowder/Smart and maybe still Brown.

Offline rickyfan3.0...

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You trade for Butler and Crowder becomes a $7mill backup. Don't see much value in that.

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

When you have the ability to add a guy who multi-time all defensive teamer who is averaging 24/6/5 then, I'm sorry, but Crowder is not untouchable.

There is nothing Crowder does that Butler doesn't do.  And everything that they both do, Butler does better.  Except maybe three point shooting, but Crowder didn't do that much better then Butler the previous few seasons.

Contracts matter too.  Every team has a budget.  The Celtics will not be able to afford Bradley, Smart, and IT after next season.  They will be able to afford IT, Smart, and Crowder.  Trading Crowder means this trade costs you both him and Bradley, and whatever else the Celtics are giving up.  Unless you're down with something like Brooklyn 2017, Bradley, and Crowder to begin with, in which case we have an irreconcilable disagreement on Jimmy Butler's value.

This. Crowder's salary makes him a tremendous asset in 2018, when we have to pay big dollars to our guards.

Online jambr380

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

When you have the ability to add a guy who multi-time all defensive teamer who is averaging 24/6/5 then, I'm sorry, but Crowder is not untouchable.

There is nothing Crowder does that Butler doesn't do.  And everything that they both do, Butler does better.  Except maybe three point shooting, but Crowder didn't do that much better then Butler the previous few seasons.

Contracts matter too.  Every team has a budget.  The Celtics will not be able to afford Bradley, Smart, and IT after next season.  They will be able to afford IT, Smart, and Crowder.  Trading Crowder means this trade costs you both him and Bradley, and whatever else the Celtics are giving up.  Unless you're down with something like Brooklyn 2017, Bradley, and Crowder to begin with, in which case we have an irreconcilable disagreement on Jimmy Butler's value.

First off, we couldn't agree more on this issue so thanks for helping to spell that out.

With that said, and I mentioned this in the other thread, wouldn't trading Jae, AB, and BKN '17 be better than the same trade with the BKN '18 (a common package I see on CB)? If I am not mistaken, the additional rookie salary on top of the $15.6M AB/Crowder are scheduled to make next year would actually open up max cap space to sign Hayward, wouldn't it?

But I will reiterate that I am not in favor of any trade before we see what happens this summer first. Casually throwing around our best assets/picks is driving me nuts - just another 30 hours before it's over.

Offline KGs Knee

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

This is not true at all. Not when you are replacing him with a better player who plays the same position.

Butler at his contract better value than Crowder at his contract.

Chicago can have one of Bradley or Crowder, I really don't care which, just not both.
They play the same position (wing) of which there are 2 or more on the floor at all times anymore.  The idea is to pair Crowder/Butler and not Bradley/Butler, it allows for you to switch everything much better on defense because they can both guard up and down a position+.  Bradley/I.T. is just to small and causes to many problems.  G.S. is a good example with Thompson/Durant/Iggy, the C's want Butler/Crowder/Smart and maybe still Brown.

Well, Bradley's injuries are a concern, I'll concede that. That is the one thing that can change the equation.

But as for which pairing I prefer, I think I'd prefer Butler/Bradley over Crowder/Butler.

Bradley is simply a better player than Crowder, on both ends of the court. I'm not concerned about the minimal size difference between Crowder an Bradley. It's not really much of an impact.

I should note, I'm just not really a Crowder fan, and think he's wildly overrated around here.

Offline The Oracle

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You trade for Butler and Crowder becomes a $7mill backup. Don't see much value in that.
No he doesn't!  The C's would start I.T./Butler/Crowder with Smart/Brown off the bench.  Ideally I hope Danny is sticking to offering Bradley with Rozier or Brown and a Brooklyn pick.  Chicago may want Crowder instead of Bradley.

Offline TheTruthFot18

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You trade for Butler and Crowder becomes a $7mill backup. Don't see much value in that.

Um do you see how much bench players make now? Maybe his salary would be dumb 5 years ago but now its still a bargain off the bench. Kanter makes $20 mil, and a bunch of other guys are making +/- $10 mil to come off the bench.

I challenge to you find a better bench player than Crowder not on a rookie contract who costs less and produces just as much or more.
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Offline crimson_stallion

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

When you have the ability to add a guy who multi-time all defensive teamer who is averaging 24/6/5 then, I'm sorry, but Crowder is not untouchable.

There is nothing Crowder does that Butler doesn't do.  And everything that they both do, Butler does better.  Except maybe three point shooting, but Crowder didn't do that much better then Butler the previous few seasons.

Contracts matter too.  Every team has a budget.  The Celtics will not be able to afford Bradley, Smart, and IT after next season.  They will be able to afford IT, Smart, and Crowder.  Trading Crowder means this trade costs you both him and Bradley, and whatever else the Celtics are giving up.  Unless you're down with something like Brooklyn 2017, Bradley, and Crowder to begin with, in which case we have an irreconcilable disagreement on Jimmy Butler's value.

I'm not getting your point? 

Bradley and Crowder make about $15M combined.  Butler makes like $17M. 

Throw in Jordan Mickey at $1.8M or so to make things even, in which case we aren't taking back any more then we are giving - so now our cap situation is unchanged.

We then have same cap flexibility in the summer as we would have without the trade, so we can go after a max free agent just like we would have before - hence we can add Hayward, Millsap or Griffin and still have Butler too.

I'd much rather have Thomas/Butler/Hayward then Thomas/Hayward/Crowder. Wouldn't you? 

   

Offline crimson_stallion

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You trade for Butler and Crowder becomes a $7mill backup. Don't see much value in that.

Um do you see how much bench players make now? Maybe his salary would be dumb 5 years ago but now its still a bargain off the bench. Kanter makes $20 mil, and a bunch of other guys are making +/- $10 mil to come off the bench.

I challenge to you find a better bench player than Crowder not on a rookie contract who costs less and produces just as much or more.

Avery Bradley hahaha