Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 14758 times)

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Offline BitterJim

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We don't know what the price is but what I can't agree with are statements that echo the sentiment "Jimmy Butler is a minor upgrade from Crowder". Like, seriously?? Crowder is a 3 and D player. Butler is an all star. That's like saying Kawhi Leonard is a minor upgrade from Trevor Ariza.

Not it isn't.  Leonard is an MVP candidate, and Crowder is more valuable than Ariza.  I agree that Butler would definitely be an upgrade from Crowder, but that's a bad example
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Offline LGC88

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Lol Lakers don't want to include Ingram and Russel.
Their pick is not 100% their own.
So what they can offer for Butler?
2019 pick + Randle ?

Online Chief Macho

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this is why i still don't have a clue why they didn't just risk a cheap deal with boogie. 

could have just given up the pick probably, for a guy in a position we need, in a draft where all the top players don't fit our team perfectly. 

Offline Ilikesports17

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Appears we might not be alone in our pursuit of Butler. Enter Magic/Lakers into mix-maybe it is to drive price up on us again. Perfect storm for Bulls if they truly want to trade him..have Celtics and Lakers fight for him....

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adamle is an idiot.

in the past he has tweeted rumors then we they turned out to be BS he deleted them.

He has 0 credibility.
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Online saltlover

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Lol Lakers don't want to include Ingram and Russel.
Their pick is not 100% their own.
So what they can offer for Butler?
2019 pick + Randle ?

The earliest pick they can offer is 2020 (if they keep this year's pick), or 2021 if they lose it.  They owe a 2019 pick to Orlando if they give this year's pick to Philly.
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Offline Ilikesports17

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this is why i still don't have a clue why they didn't just risk a cheap deal with boogie. 

could have just given up the pick probably, for a guy in a position we need, in a draft where all the top players don't fit our team perfectly.
The team clearly decided that Cousins personality was cancerous to the team and simply not worth the risk.

It had nothing to do with price or fit.

That is the only thing that makes sense.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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We would only be slightly better swapping out Crowder for Butler imo.  Shouldn't budge from anything more than Bradley + Brown + pick.
thats a steep price in itself.

No way I give up Bradley+Brown+'17+Crowder.

no way.

Yeah Bradley Brown Crowder and '17 is wayyyyyy too much.

That's something you offer Indiana for Paul George, not for Jimmy Butler.

Yeah, Danny has to stand pat with Bradley + Brown + 2017 Brooklyn pick + other fringe players if needed to make salaries work. If Chicago refuses, then we move on.

No way we should include Crowder and/or Smart in that package for Butler. No way.
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Offline Bobshot

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Ainge is holding out for Bradley, who he probably won't re-sign. But Crowder makes more sense for both teams, because Bulls have Wade at the 2, and Butler would be more suited for the 3, replacing Crowder. Butler doesn't shoot the 3 much, so he wouldn't be as desirable at the 2. And they still have Brown as the backup 3.

I don't see this as a deal blocker, if there really is a deal. Ainge has a lot to gain from the savings of Butler's contract--with Crowder or Bradley. And if the deal includes Nets 18, not 17, it's a no brainer.

Offline Trifecta

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2. I love the fit of Jimmy next to Crowder rather than instead of Crowder. The last 2 years our best defenses have featured lineups that can switch everything. On offense Crowder at the 4 gives Jimmy Butler more space than he has ever had before.

I agree with this the most. Butler and Crowder @ the 2 and 3  gives you one of, if not the strongest and best defensive wing pairings in the league (off the top of my head). Not to mention the match-up problems you would create on offense with Crowder at the 4, especially with Butler out there. Not only does he do a good job of creating offense for himself, but I think he's underrated as a playmaker as well (5 APG).
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Offline oldtype

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We don't know what the price is but what I can't agree with are statements that echo the sentiment "Jimmy Butler is a minor upgrade from Crowder". Like, seriously?? Crowder is a 3 and D player. Butler is an all star. That's like saying Kawhi Leonard is a minor upgrade from Trevor Ariza.

In the context of Thomas being a high-usage first option, Butler is only a minor upgrade from Crowder.  He is not a good shooter and is therefore less of a threat off the ball.  That's offset a bit by giving us a viable second-option creator when IT can't get it done, but it's not an ideal fit. 

The best stars for superteams are always the ones who are just as valuable off the ball as on it (see, e.g., Durant, Curry, Thompson, Green), and Butler does not fit that mold.  I'm not saying I don't want him, but the improvement would not be as big as you think.



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Offline triboy16f

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Will ainge include anyone?? Lol

He could split the team into two very soon. Celtics 1 and Celtics 2

Online LilRip

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We don't know what the price is but what I can't agree with are statements that echo the sentiment "Jimmy Butler is a minor upgrade from Crowder". Like, seriously?? Crowder is a 3 and D player. Butler is an all star. That's like saying Kawhi Leonard is a minor upgrade from Trevor Ariza.

Not it isn't.  Leonard is an MVP candidate, and Crowder is more valuable than Ariza.  I agree that Butler would definitely be an upgrade from Crowder, but that's a bad example

It's a close enough example. Crowder and Ariza are both highly capable role players, play terrific D, and shoot the three ball fairly well. Neither can be relied on to create offense consistently. Meanwhile, Kawhi and Butler are surefire allstars, extremely hard workers, lock down defenders, and can create their own shot even if the defense is geared to stop them.

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Offline celticinorlando

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Danny does need to shed some of the deadweight on this roster...I can't see Amir, Zeller, Young being on the team next year.

In addition, if they draft Fultz you have a glut of guards...Smart, Bradley, Rozier, Fultz, IT..someone is going. I prefer Bradley. Get something for him now
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Offline RockinRyA

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We don't know what the price is but what I can't agree with are statements that echo the sentiment "Jimmy Butler is a minor upgrade from Crowder". Like, seriously?? Crowder is a 3 and D player. Butler is an all star. That's like saying Kawhi Leonard is a minor upgrade from Trevor Ariza.

Not it isn't.  Leonard is an MVP candidate, and Crowder is more valuable than Ariza.  I agree that Butler would definitely be an upgrade from Crowder, but that's a bad example

It's a close enough example. Crowder and Ariza are both highly capable role players, play terrific D, and shoot the three ball fairly well. Neither can be relied on to create offense consistently. Meanwhile, Kawhi and Butler are surefire allstars, extremely hard workers, lock down defenders, and can create their own shot even if the defense is geared to stop them.

You'd like to think so but no. There's a huge gap between Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler, and Crowder is better than Ariza.

Offline tazzmaniac

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Unless the Bulls get blown away by an offer, I'd expect them to wait until the offseason to trade Butler.  There will be more teams in play for Butler and they'll know which 2017 pick they'll be getting.