Butler or George?

[bopna]

PG
He is the ideal 3 that can stand up to Lebron.

[SHAQATTACK]

Drummond

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This is totally unexpected results for me. I voted George too, but why is this so lopsided?

For me, Butler seems like a little bit of a ball hog and prima donna. I think he plays really hard, but something about his personality is concerning to me. I have concerns about how he would function next to IT, especially in the 4th. I also am really concerned that he won't age well.

George, on the other hand, was challenging KD and Lebron for best small forward pretty recently. He moves the ball, but can still create his own offense. He's a three point shooter. I love the way he gets around screens and think he would fit really well in CBS defensive schemes.

Similar numbers, but in the end, I think the Celtic fans have seen enough good, team basketball to be uncomfortable -- even if it's subconsciously -- with Butler.

[BringToughnessBack]

I voted George but interesting to see who top small forward as related true plus minus this year is-Butler. George is in teens and Crowder is top 10.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5

Also , out 40 centers, Drummond is 36 out of 40....no wonder they are exploring trades.

[CelticsJG]

PG...He is younger & better

[Smokeeye123]

PG...He is younger & better

Butler is only older by 9 months and is better in every statistical category this year outside 3p% and FT%.

Butler is signed longer too. I honestly dont get the obsession with George. He's having a major down year.

[YoungOne87]

Thats really a tough decision, if we would get either with the same package.

I think Stevens would like PG13 more because he fits better (can play 2-4, better 3pt shooter)

Butler has other things going for him (getting to the line a ton, longer contract, better overall season)

But I would be happy with either of them, so I cant really decide between the 2.

[slightly biased bias fan]

I remember reading that Boston is starting to become hesitant with a Butler trade because of the emergence of Thomas as a franchise player, both players are very ball dominant.

If Butler disliked playing with a ball hog like Rose, why would Butler love to play next to Thomas who's game is very similar to Rose's?

[LGC88]

I remember reading that Boston is starting to become hesitant with a Butler trade because of the emergence of Thomas as a franchise player, both players are very ball dominant.

If Butler disliked playing with a ball hog like Rose, why would Butler love to play next to Thomas who's game is very similar to Rose's?

TP, that's a very good point.

I voted PG because he's a more complete player and he has his head straight. There is almost no flaw except the fact that he let go a little this season (I think he's not very happy about how the Pacers turn out as a team).
He's not slowing the game like Butler would probably do with his iso play on the wing.
He has more experience in the playoffs and has proven he can guard Lebron and KD.
He is very efficient and a true clutch player in the playoff.

A no brainer for me.

[slightly biased bias fan]

I remember reading that Boston is starting to become hesitant with a Butler trade because of the emergence of Thomas as a franchise player, both players are very ball dominant.

If Butler disliked playing with a ball hog like Rose, why would Butler love to play next to Thomas who's game is very similar to Rose's?

TP, that's a very good point.

I voted PG because he's a more complete player and he has his head straight. There is almost no flaw except the fact that he let go a little this season (I think he's not very happy about how the Pacers turn out as a team).
He's not slowing the game like Butler would probably do with his iso play on the wing.
He has more experience in the playoffs and has proven he can guard Lebron and KD.
He is very efficient and a true clutch player in the playoff.

A no brainer for me.

Thank you!

All your points are very true IMO

Butler's game is very reminiscent of MJ & Kobe, slowing the pace for iso play, with triple threat jab steps, and neither played with ball dominate point guards.

[LGC88]

I believe KD can shoot over Butler with ease (same as Crowder). He can't do that over PG so easily.

[crimson_stallion]

My instinct says Butler, because he's improved so much every year, which indicates to me that we really have no idea how good he could become.

But my brain says George, because he's been the more steady and consistent, has had more team success, and he's got the better physical package. 

Honestly I'd be happy with either.

[LilRip]

I remember reading that Boston is starting to become hesitant with a Butler trade because of the emergence of Thomas as a franchise player, both players are very ball dominant.

If Butler disliked playing with a ball hog like Rose, why would Butler love to play next to Thomas who's game is very similar to Rose's?

TP, that's a very good point.

I voted PG because he's a more complete player and he has his head straight. There is almost no flaw except the fact that he let go a little this season (I think he's not very happy about how the Pacers turn out as a team).
He's not slowing the game like Butler would probably do with his iso play on the wing.
He has more experience in the playoffs and has proven he can guard Lebron and KD.
He is very efficient and a true clutch player in the playoff.

A no brainer for me.

For the record, Butler guards Lebron very very well.

I haven't checked the stats but it wouldn't surprise me if Butler is better than PG both offensively and defensively. What PG clearly has over Butler is height, which allows him to play 3/4.

[crimson_stallion]

I remember reading that Boston is starting to become hesitant with a Butler trade because of the emergence of Thomas as a franchise player, both players are very ball dominant.

If Butler disliked playing with a ball hog like Rose, why would Butler love to play next to Thomas who's game is very similar to Rose's?

TP, that's a very good point.

I voted PG because he's a more complete player and he has his head straight. There is almost no flaw except the fact that he let go a little this season (I think he's not very happy about how the Pacers turn out as a team).
He's not slowing the game like Butler would probably do with his iso play on the wing.
He has more experience in the playoffs and has proven he can guard Lebron and KD.
He is very efficient and a true clutch player in the playoff.

A no brainer for me.

For the record, Butler guards Lebron very very well.

I haven't checked the stats but it wouldn't surprise me if Butler is better than PG both offensively and defensively. What PG clearly has over Butler is height, which allows him to play 3/4.

It's more his length, really.

Butler measured at 6' 7.75" (pretty much 6'8") at the draft combine but he only has a 6'7" wingspan - so he has dinosaur arms, Kelly Olynyk style.

George measured 6' 8.75" (so pretty much 6'9") at the combine which is only 1" more - but his wingspan measured at 6'11".  Not a huge wingspan relative to his height, but a long wingspan for a SF.   

Probably has a lot to do with why Butler only has an 8'5" standing reach, while George has an 8'11" standing reach.  Big difference.

So height itself is a moot point between the two, but the difference in length is pretty significant. 

On the other hand Jimmy butler seems to be a LOT stronger.  He looks like he could go head to head with Jae Crowder strength wise, while George has a skinnier build.

Still, there is no doubt that Paul George is the more versatile of the two.  He's long enough to defend power forwards (and even some small centers, like Tristan Thompson) yet he's quick enough to defend shooting guards at the same time.

At the same time he has the length to play PF on offence from time to time if he had to, but has the ball handling skills and play making to play SG on offence too.  Honestly, George could probably even play a bit of PG at a stretch, like Pierce used to. 

He's a very versatile player, which is probably he's biggest strength.

[Who]

I wrote this in the Hayward vs P.George thread but I wanted to post it here because I included Jimmy Butler in the post as well to make it easier to compare the 3 players. Rather than making two separate posts just comparing the 2 players talked about in thread.

Shot selection

I think Paul George settles for long jump shots too much instead of driving to the basket. You can see this in his shot distribution vs Hayward or J.Butler.

P.George - 852 FGAs

At rim = 115 attempts
 3-10 foot = 93
10-15 foot = 110
15-23 foot = 243
3 pointers = 294


G.Hayward - 752 FGAs

At rim = 174 attempts
 3-10 foot = 95
10-15 foot = 90
15-23 foot = 146
3 pointers = 247

J.Butler - 823 FGAs

At rim = 222 attempts
 3-10 foot = 100
10-15 foot = 136
15-23 foot = 195
3 pointers = 170

---------------------------

I think Paul George settles too much on offense. Takes too many long jumpers. Too many contested shots. Does not utilize his athletic advantages to get to the basket. You can see P.George has taken the most shots overall but the fewest at the basket. Almost as little as half as many as Jimmy Butler. Both Butler and Hayward make a more concentrated effort to take the ball to the basket and attack the rim.

You can see this in FT attempts too. P.George averages 4.9 FTAs per game. Hayward is at 6.6 FTAs while Butler leads the way with 9.6 FTAs per game.

Turnover Prone

George is also the most turnover prone. 2.8 turnovers per game vs 2.1 turnovers for Butler and 1.9 turnovers for Hayward.

Which is even more [dang]ing when you look at those shot distribution figures and see how many long shots Paul George is attempting vs shots around the basket.

There is no reason to turn the ball over on 3 point attempts. So the turnover percentage vs two point shots is even worse for George.

Paul George = 11.4 two point FGAs vs 2.8 turnovers = 24.6%
Gordon Hayward = 10.4 two point FGAs vs 1.9 turnovers = 18.2%
Jimmy Butler = 13.1 two point FGAs vs 2.1 turnovers = 16%

Include FTs in numbers (as 0.44 a possession)

Paul George = 11.4 two point FGAs + 4.9 FTAs vs 2.8 turnovers = 20.7%
Gordon Hayward = 10.4 two point FGAs + 6.6 FTAs vs 1.9 turnovers = 14.3%
Jimmy Butler = 13.1 two point FGAs + 9.6 FTAs vs 2.1 turnovers = 12.1%



Those are the things that bug me about Paul George's offensive game and why I do not think he is as good offensively as either Butler or Hayward. He settles for too many long jump shots, he doesn't attack the basket well enough, he does not utilize his athletic advantages to get to the basket for higher percentage shots, in turn does not get enough FTAs and he makes too many turnovers. Too many bad decisions on offense.