ESPN's Pelton on a Possible Outline of a Butler Deal

[Tr1boy]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

[Phantom255x]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

Oh yeah, let's give away one of our more efficient 3 and D players on a bargain contract for the next THREE years like that..

And CHI aren't biting if it's Top-3 protected.

[PhoSita]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

There's a strong chance Brown is never as valuable as Crowder is right now, and Crowder is locked up at a very reasonable price for another three seasons.

[PhoSita]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

I would stop watching the Celtics. Where is the potential to grow for this team? What is up with this obsession with Butler? He's not even that efficient as a scorer.

Potential to grow -- Smart, 2017 Nets (if top 2) / 2018 Nets, Zizic, Yabu, Olynyk, any of the other half dozen picks we have coming ...

Not to mention, IT / Butler / Crowder / Horford getting better as a unit the more they play together.


Jimmy Butler is an elite two-way player.  He would immediately give the Celts a fighting chance against Cleveland.  He's also locked up for a couple more seasons after this one at a very reasonable price, which would make it easier to retain Thomas and Smart.


If you can get a player like Butler while holding onto IT, Horford, Smart, Crowder, and one of the Nets picks, it makes way too much sense not to do it.

[Celtics4ever]

ESPN = Exaggeration Speculation Program Network.

[footey]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

There's a strong chance Brown is never as valuable as Crowder is right now, and Crowder is locked up at a very reasonable price for another three seasons.

How many games have you watched, PhoSita? A "strong chance" Brown is never a valuable as Crowder?  Seriously??

[kozlodoev]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

There's a strong chance Brown is never as valuable as Crowder is right now, and Crowder is locked up at a very reasonable price for another three seasons.

How many games have you watched, PhoSita? A "strong chance" Brown is never a valuable as Crowder?  Seriously??

I don't know whether "strong chance" is an accurate wording, but that Brown will be as good as Crowder is right now is far from a given.

[footey]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

There's a strong chance Brown is never as valuable as Crowder is right now, and Crowder is locked up at a very reasonable price for another three seasons.

How many games have you watched, PhoSita? A "strong chance" Brown is never a valuable as Crowder?  Seriously??

I don't know whether "strong chance" is an accurate wording, but that Brown will be as good as Crowder is right now is far from a given.

More likely than not that Brown will be better.  Personally I feel much better. And I really like Jae Crowder a lot.  But he is quite limited on what he can do offensively, is a below average rebounder.  He is a great glue guy role player. Brown's athleticism and moves suggest a more compelling game long term.  Crowder is 6 years older, by the way. Let's look back in 6 years and assess where Brown's game is.

[CelticsJG]

That asking price is way to much

[mr. dee]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

There's a strong chance Brown is never as valuable as Crowder is right now, and Crowder is locked up at a very reasonable price for another three seasons.

How many games have you watched, PhoSita? A "strong chance" Brown is never a valuable as Crowder?  Seriously??

I don't know whether "strong chance" is an accurate wording, but that Brown will be as good as Crowder is right now is far from a given.

Brown is already much Better than the rookie Crowder. That's a start.

[mctyson]

some of these proposals are way too much

Correct.  A lot of the media have Boston Celtics hate/envy so they just spew garbage. 

There is zero chance Danny is including the '17 BK pick and Smart/Brown/Crowder.

[mmmmm]

In my mind, our assets can be arranged in tiers by trade value.  Ignoring players like Isaiah and Al, who simply make no sense to move at this time for a variety of reasons, I would break them out like so:

Tier 1:  Avery, Jae, Marcus, Jaylen, BKN17, BKN18

Tier 2:  Rozier, Rights to Yabusele, Rights to Zizic, BOS18

Tier 3:  MEM & LAC 1sts, BOS19,  MEM 2017 2nd (currently #35),

Tier 4:  Various lesser second round picks, Jackson, Mickey, Rights to Nader, expiring contracts.

Tier 1 trade assets all have high floors and either high upside or extremely favorable contracts.  Avery & Jae are tier 1 assets by virtue of both their proven high-level production as starters on a top team along with very, very friendly contracts.  Marcus and Jaylen are top trade assets by virtue of being top picks on rookie deals, both still seen as having high upside.   The BKN picks are, of course, the Brooklyn picks.   Note that, to some teams, AB & Jae are more valuable because they are proven veterans while to other teams Marcus, Jaylen and the picks might be more valuable because of potential.  But overall, these 4 players and these two picks all represent 'top tier' trade assets.

Now, as far as I can remember, I can't think of many star trades where more than two such "Tier 1" trade assets were included in the deal.

Even with KG, there were just two such top assets:  The "return" of Minnesota's own 2009 pick (which would have reverted to them anyway, once they traded KG away and were thus lottery-bound) that became Johnny Flynn and Big Al.  The rest was journeyman Gomes and filler.

The Shaq trade (LAL to MIA) had one future first (Jordan Farmar), Lamar Odom and filler.

Orlando got Arron Afflalo, journeyman Al Harrington and a package of tier 2-level picks for Dwight.   (That trade is a little harder to isolate because Bynum moved to PHI in the same deal, which had players and picks flying all over the place.)

I like Jimmy Butler.  A lot.  I think he'd be a great fit on the Celtics.  But I have a hard time with the notion of sending THREE out of that 'Tier 1" list to get him.   

I think any package that includes more than two "Tier 1" assets is a serious overpay.

I also think that any fanciful notions about trading the BKN17 pick with protection on it are not going to fly.   We are too close to the hard probabilities that the pick is (a) going to be top-4 and (b) has a well-defined set of probabilities for being 1, 2, 3 or 4.    With a solid 46.5% chance that pick will be "Top 2", Chicago (nor any team) is not going to accept it with top-2 protection on it.    Protection on that particular pick might have made sense prior to this season.

I think the deal that makes sense will be one of the BKN picks, one of the players from the Tier 1 list and then a package of fillers and sweeteners from the other tiers.

[No Nickname]

If the Pels got Cousins for Heild (#6 last year) and a 2017 likely to be between #13-19 there's no way Butler gets this deal as described.

I would go with the Nets 2017 (top 2 protected) plus Bradley, Rozier, and Zeller.

Celts get Butler + Chicago's 2017 1st.

[chilidawg]

If the Pels got Cousins for Heild (#6 last year) and a 2017 likely to be between #13-19 there's no way Butler gets this deal as described.

I would go with the Nets 2017 (top 2 protected) plus Bradley, Rozier, and Zeller.

Celts get Butler + Chicago's 2017 1st.

I'd love that deal, but doubt you'd get the Chicago 1st, at least with out serious protections.  13-19 could have great value in this draft, there's a number of high upside bigs currently in that range.

[PhoSita]

Bradley, Brown, and 2017 top 2 protected, reverts to 2018 Nets if not conveyed this year.

That'd be my offer. Can tinker around the edges with lesser assets e.g. Rozier, Jackson, other picks etc.

Seriously??

Brown is here to stay.  Replace with Crowder and 2017 top 3 protect

There's a strong chance Brown is never as valuable as Crowder is right now, and Crowder is locked up at a very reasonable price for another three seasons.

How many games have you watched, PhoSita? A "strong chance" Brown is never a valuable as Crowder?  Seriously??

Brown is a rookie averaging less than 6 points per game with an EFG% below 47%.

Crowder is a top 10 player at his position who is excellent defensively and has an EFG% over 58% this season.

It's true that Jaylen looks better as a rookie than Crowder did as a rookie.  That's by no means a guarantee that Jaylen will follow the same development arc that Crowder did.

Jaylen is an exciting prospect, but Crowder's current value is much, much higher than what Jaylen brings to the table right now.

For all the potential Jaylen has, there is absolutely no guarantee that he is ever the kind of two way player that Crowder is now (and projects to be for another 3-4 years at least), especially when you consider that Crowder has become an elite outside shooter.


I say all of this not to criticize Jaylen, but to argue for Crowder's current value.  His contract is one of the best in the league, and he's a vital component of this current Celtics team. 

If we're making a trade to try and contend for the next 3-5 years, it makes far more sense to trade Jaylen and keep Crowder than the other way round.