Author Topic: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar  (Read 2766 times)

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Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« on: February 21, 2017, 01:40:29 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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If you look at the teams that have won a championship in the last decade or so they have one thing in common with only one exception. All of these teams have obtained their superstar player through the draft. (With Lebron in Miami the only exception) Unless you are a destination that is going to get the very best player in the league and one of the greatest players in the history of the game, making moves to trade for Tier 2 stars never results in a championship. Once you have your elite player you can trade for supporting players like we did with Ray and KG, however Paul Pierce was our draft pick. Rather than give up all our high level draft picks that could result in this superstar to trade for a guy like Butler, we need to stand pat and put our focus on identifying the next superstar that will return us to the Championship. Maybe that is Jaylen Brown, maybe not. But we need to keep these Nets picks that will give us the best shot of finding him.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 01:53:00 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 01:56:49 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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How about Detroit? 


Trade or signed Billups, Rip, Wallace and Wallace.


Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 02:08:31 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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How about Detroit? 


Trade or signed Billups, Rip, Wallace and Wallace.

Took me awhile to realize this too. Detroit was far and away the exception, not the rule. No other championship team lacked clear top tier talent as they did going back probably 40 years.
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

- Me (sometime in January)

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Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 02:09:57 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

How is Butler not in his prime yet?  ???
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

- Me (sometime in January)

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Guess I was wrong (May 23rd)

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 02:10:15 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

Both of these statements are true:

"Teams that win championships do so with drafted players."

"Drafting a superstar and then winning a championship is incredibly difficult."

The plain fact is that the vast majority of rings in the modern era have been won by teams with a home-grown superstar. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Isiah, Steph. That's 27 out of the last 37. That doesn't count Lebron's Cavs, Wade's Heat, "Shaq's" Lakers, etc. where there might be some disagreement. Even the others had plenty of home-grown talent (Kobe, Pierce, Dr. J.).

Detroit is the clear exception, but one data point is an outlier, not a counter-argument.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 02:12:30 PM »

Offline liam

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

Both of these statements are true:

"Teams that win championships do so with drafted players."

"Drafting a superstar and then winning a championship is incredibly difficult."

The plain fact is that the vast majority of rings in the modern era have been won by teams with a home-grown superstar. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Isiah, Steph. That's 27 out of the last 37. That doesn't count Lebron's Cavs, Wade's Heat, "Shaq's" Lakers, etc. where there might be some disagreement. Even the others had plenty of home-grown talent (Kobe, Pierce, Dr. J.).

Detroit is the clear exception, but one data point is an outlier, not a counter-argument.

Kobe was a trade.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 02:16:01 PM »

Offline ssspence

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While I agree with you, I have to point out that "Tier 2 Superstar" is an oxymoron.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 02:20:41 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

How is Butler not in his prime yet?  ???

It can be argued because his scoring has climbed each year (also his rebounds and assists, other than 1 year on rebounds).  This means he hasn't even peaked.... Butler is a Top 3 team All NBA player, which means he's not a "Tier 2 Superstar"

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2017, 02:22:05 PM »

Offline Geo123

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While I agree with you, I have to point out that "Tier 2 Superstar" is an oxymoron.

I agree.  It's a silly label.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 02:28:33 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

How is Butler not in his prime yet?  ???

It can be argued because his scoring has climbed each year (also his rebounds and assists, other than 1 year on rebounds).  This means he hasn't even peaked.... Butler is a Top 3 team All NBA player, which means he's not a "Tier 2 Superstar"

So is that one of those things where you can't label a player's prime until after he is in it?
#JKJB

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 02:34:31 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

Both of these statements are true:

"Teams that win championships do so with drafted players."

"Drafting a superstar and then winning a championship is incredibly difficult."

The plain fact is that the vast majority of rings in the modern era have been won by teams with a home-grown superstar. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Isiah, Steph. That's 27 out of the last 37. That doesn't count Lebron's Cavs, Wade's Heat, "Shaq's" Lakers, etc. where there might be some disagreement. Even the others had plenty of home-grown talent (Kobe, Pierce, Dr. J.).

Detroit is the clear exception, but one data point is an outlier, not a counter-argument.

Kobe was a trade.

You know better than that. If a player never played for the franchise by which he was drafted, then, for all intents and purposes, he was was 'drafted' by the team he was traded to. Rondo was 'drafted' by the Cs, Noguiera was 'drafted by the Raptors, and Olynyk was 'drafted by the Cs, etc.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2017, 02:35:13 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.
You mean the 14 pts 9 brds Tim Duncan who was still the heart and soul of that team... Come on. Jimmy Butler isn't in the same league as LeBron. Just because teams miss on picks doesn't change the fact that this is the only way to win it all. Without drafting Paul Pierce we don't win it in 08. Takes a little luck sometimes.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2017, 02:39:08 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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How about Detroit? 


Trade or signed Billups, Rip, Wallace and Wallace.
The exception that proves the rule.

Re: Don't trade for a Tier 2 superstar
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2017, 02:40:14 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Tell that to the Spurs, who won a title with and old and fractured Tim Duncan / Tony Parker and an up and coming Kawhi Leonard who (up until the playoffs that year)  really hadn't made much of a bane for himself.

Also tell it to the Lakers, Sixers and Celtics who have all had multiple lotteey picks in the last few years and have no "Lebron" caliber player yet to show for it 

Or the kings,  who (in some 10 years of consecutive lottery picks) have only drafted two guys who could be considered superstars.

If you're going to throw all your eggs into the draft then you had better head lottery picks guaranteed for the next 5-6 years at least if you want to give yourself a half decent chance.

Or you can just trade for a guy who is already a superstar, and isn't even in his prime yet,  like Jimmy Butler.

How is Butler not in his prime yet?  ???

It can be argued because his scoring has climbed each year (also his rebounds and assists, other than 1 year on rebounds).  This means he hasn't even peaked.... Butler is a Top 3 team All NBA player, which means he's not a "Tier 2 Superstar"

So is that one of those things where you can't label a player's prime until after he is in it?

I believe its one of those things where people don't know for sure when he's in his prime since he's still getting better.  However, I didn't say he wasn't in is prime. I said people could say that.

To me there are very few players as valuable as Butler (and no draft pick is).  He's proven, getting better each year, signed below market value and is a complete player.  When people argue that Brown or any of the current college kids are his equal, that's crazy.   This is a results driven league and he's done it.