Poll

Simmons or Fultz?

Simmons
13 (40.6%)
Fultz
15 (46.9%)
Lonzo Ball is a proven winner and I would take him over both guys
4 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?  (Read 3658 times)

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Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 12:40:56 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Josh Jackson. 

Hoping Danny picks him.

He would be a tremendous Celtic. Have been watching his games lately. The highlights don't do him justice, even though they are impressive. The guy never takes a play off.  Always boxes out (better than the current players on our team!!).  An excellent decision maker. Great passer.  Something old school about the way he plays, that just screams he would make a great Celtic.  His team-mates would love him. Would be fantastic playing along side Jaylen, too.

If not, Ball.  But the caveat with him is that we would probably have to trade some guys, maybe including Isaiah, to make him the quarterback of the team.  That is where his value is.   Special player.

If Fultz, I'd package in a trade for George.  Just don't see him contributing to more wins on this team.  He is very talented, and will probably put up great numbers, but just don't get a good vibe on him, especially the intangible stuff.

I'm also on the Jackson train. Looks better and better.

I don't like Ball too much. People seem to underrate how big the jump from college to NBA is. I'm not sure Ball's game will translate well to the NBA, and even if it does (which is entirely possible), I'm no fan of NBA offenses led by pass-first (or better, pass-only) guards.

Fultz looks as if he`s going through the motions, but he could simply not be interested in playing in college, and intentionally holding back as to not injure himself before his big payday.


Lonzo Ball is a lot more than a pass first point guard. He's one of the best 3 point shooters in the draft and a guy defenses relly have to be honest with.

See, that`s what I mean. He´s one of the best 3pt-shooters in college.
He won't have nearly the time or space to make these awkward shots in the NBA. Real NBA defenders eat shots like that for breakfast.

Have you seen how far out he takes his 3 point shots?  Steph Curry range, well beyond the NBA 3 point line. I see no issue on that front. I think the value of Ball is his ability to generate a run style offense, where guys like Brown will thrive, not so much Horford though. Also unclear how he would fit in with Isaiah.

IT4 is great offball, he has to be one of the fastest guys in the NBA. Balls game is all speed and opportunistic plays, it's a lot like street pick up ball... also, there's big question marks if he can pull up from that range instead of always catch and shoot.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 12:43:24 PM »

Offline perks-a-beast

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I've yet to hear many defend Simmons over Fultz. Would be interested in hearing more of that perspective.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 12:49:21 PM »

Offline Casperian

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Josh Jackson. 

Hoping Danny picks him.

He would be a tremendous Celtic. Have been watching his games lately. The highlights don't do him justice, even though they are impressive. The guy never takes a play off.  Always boxes out (better than the current players on our team!!).  An excellent decision maker. Great passer.  Something old school about the way he plays, that just screams he would make a great Celtic.  His team-mates would love him. Would be fantastic playing along side Jaylen, too.

If not, Ball.  But the caveat with him is that we would probably have to trade some guys, maybe including Isaiah, to make him the quarterback of the team.  That is where his value is.   Special player.

If Fultz, I'd package in a trade for George.  Just don't see him contributing to more wins on this team.  He is very talented, and will probably put up great numbers, but just don't get a good vibe on him, especially the intangible stuff.

I'm also on the Jackson train. Looks better and better.

I don't like Ball too much. People seem to underrate how big the jump from college to NBA is. I'm not sure Ball's game will translate well to the NBA, and even if it does (which is entirely possible), I'm no fan of NBA offenses led by pass-first (or better, pass-only) guards.

Fultz looks as if he`s going through the motions, but he could simply not be interested in playing in college, and intentionally holding back as to not injure himself before his big payday.


Lonzo Ball is a lot more than a pass first point guard. He's one of the best 3 point shooters in the draft and a guy defenses relly have to be honest with.

See, that`s what I mean. He´s one of the best 3pt-shooters in college.
He won't have nearly the time or space to make these awkward shots in the NBA. Real NBA defenders eat shots like that for breakfast.

Have you seen how far out he takes his 3 point shots?  Steph Curry range, well beyond the NBA 3 point line. I see no issue on that front. I think the value of Ball is his ability to generate a run style offense, where guys like Brown will thrive, not so much Horford though. Also unclear how he would fit in with Isaiah.

Yeah, and have you seen how terrible the arc on his shot is? Not to mention the low release point. That shot doesn`t just have a slight hitch, it`s completely broken. I don't see him ever being able to fix that. And if he doesn't, well, than all his passing skills look a lot less sexy, especially if he also needs the offense to be built around him.

But you're right in that it's also unclear how he would fit with Thomas, so if we want to keep IT, I don't see how we can justify picking him in the top 3.

While we're at it, does anyone else believe most mocks completely underrate Malik Monk? Am I crazy for thinking it`s entirely possible he could end up as the best 2-guard in the league in five years? Yeah, he's undersized, but he's a phenomenal scorer (and not just a scorer).

Regardless, I like this draft so much, I think it's almost impossible to screw it up if you're picking in the top 4.
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Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2017, 12:56:51 PM »

Offline action781

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Yeah, and have you seen how terrible the arc on his shot is? Not to mention the low release point. That shot doesn`t just have a slight hitch, it`s completely broken. I don't see him ever being able to fix that. And if he doesn't, well, than all his passing skills look a lot less sexy, especially if he also needs the offense to be built around him.

He shoots 43% from behind the arc in college and often far beyond the arc.  Reggie Miller's wrists used to smack into eachother.  Kevin Martin used to begin his shot from his knees.  It's not broken if it goes in.  You can question if he'll be able to get it off in the NBA, sure, but it's definitely not broken if it's going in 43% of the time.  I happen to think that with his range and him being 6'6" and having incredible basketball instincts that he will be able to get it off OK, although that is debatable.
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Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2017, 01:08:08 PM »

Offline Casperian

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Yeah, and have you seen how terrible the arc on his shot is? Not to mention the low release point. That shot doesn`t just have a slight hitch, it`s completely broken. I don't see him ever being able to fix that. And if he doesn't, well, than all his passing skills look a lot less sexy, especially if he also needs the offense to be built around him.

He shoots 43% from behind the arc in college and often far beyond the arc.  Reggie Miller's wrists used to smack into eachother.  Kevin Martin used to begin his shot from his knees.  It's not broken if it goes in.  You can question if he'll be able to get it off in the NBA, sure, but it's definitely not broken if it's going in 43% of the time.  I happen to think that with his range and him being 6'6" and having incredible basketball instincts that he will be able to get it off OK, although that is debatable.

You're right, it's entirely possible that he fixes his shot, or that he (or coach) finds some nifty way to get it off regardless, I just don't think it's very likely.

Is his talent really that big to justify taking a gamble on that in the top 3, especially with such a strong draft? In a league with 30+ starting calibre point guards, who benefit immensely from the handchecking rules, we shouldn't gamble a top 3 pick on a pass-first PG who might or might not find a way to get his ugly shot off, in my opinion.
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Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2017, 01:13:06 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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See, that`s what I mean. He´s one of the best 3pt-shooters in college.
He won't have nearly the time or space to make these awkward shots in the NBA. Real NBA defenders eat shots like that for breakfast.
[/quote]

I picked Fultz in the poll but I would be happy with either ball or Fultz.  Ball is such a great passer if someone played him that close he would just drive and draw the double team, than pass to the open man for an easy bucket.  Have you watched him play?  I picked Fultz because I see Kobe potential, where with Ball I see more of Steve Nash potential.   I also think Fulz is more natural at the 2, so he allows us to keep IT, which looks more and more likely every day.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2017, 01:13:51 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Equal at their respected positions .

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2017, 01:41:19 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Simmons for me, by far.

Simmons skill set for his size is unlike anything I've seen in years.

Fultz is just another highly skills all round guard with decent size.  I dont see all that much to put him above the likes of Dangelo Russel, Dante Exum, etc.

Im sure he'll probably be a good player, and he could even be an all star one day.  But Simmons if he plays his cards right could be an All Time Great.  He's a 6'10" 240 pound guy who rebounds at an elite level (even by Pf standards) and has the passing skills, ball handling skills and court vision of a PG.  If he ever develops his jumper to the point where defence has to respect it, I'm scared to imagine how good be could be.

By conparison Fultz to me just looks like a guard sized Brandon Ingram, and Ingram never looked to be like a transcendent player.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2017, 01:51:57 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Fultz will be an elite pg in the league.  Somewhere around Irving or Wall's level.  If Simmons can develop just an adequate outside shot, he will become a transcendent type of talent.  That said, he has miles to go to get there.  He doesn't even have the beginnings of a jump shot or at least he didn't in college.  His potential is extremely wide ranging.  Fultz is more predictable.  I guess I'd go with Simmons because of what he could be, but I will be psyched if we get Fultz who could end up being the better player.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2017, 01:58:39 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Simmons for me, by far.

Simmons skill set for his size is unlike anything I've seen in years.

Fultz is just another highly skills all round guard with decent size.  I dont see all that much to put him above the likes of Dangelo Russel, Dante Exum, etc.

Im sure he'll probably be a good player, and he could even be an all star one day.  But Simmons if he plays his cards right could be an All Time Great.  He's a 6'10" 240 pound guy who rebounds at an elite level (even by Pf standards) and has the passing skills, ball handling skills and court vision of a PG.  If he ever develops his jumper to the point where defence has to respect it, I'm scared to imagine how good be could be.

By conparison Fultz to me just looks like a guard sized Brandon Ingram, and Ingram never looked to be like a transcendent player.

I'm with you on Simmons, mostly.  I do think you're underselling Fultz a bit.  He's like guards we've seen before, but a better version of them.  If D'Angelo Russell could shoot better and get to the rim more efficiently, then he'd be like Fultz. 

I give the edge to Simmons, because as you say, he's so unique, and in a good way.  That said, ultimately it will come down to health and the mental aspect of the game.  They're both very talented, and it will be those intangibles that determine whether they become the best versions of themselves.  And I could see both winding up in Springfield in 20-25 years.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2017, 07:40:00 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Both of them are talented but both of them are not true alpha dogs because they posted empty stats that led to nonwinning teams.

Re: Better prospect: Fultz or Simmons?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2017, 11:46:22 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Both of them are talented but both of them are not true alpha dogs because they posted empty stats that led to nonwinning teams.

True for now