Author Topic: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?  (Read 4801 times)

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May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« on: February 20, 2017, 09:48:13 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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This is my first thread opened here. Mods, feel free to merge it with another one if you think it is repetitive.

Today, all are questions. We know that the Celtics need an interior presence to contend, and I think most of you will agree on this. Butler, George, Hayward, Fultz, Ball...they are the most talked about Celtics-to-be, and I am not sure either one puts us in a position to defeat the Cavs and Warrior. So we have to get something else in the middle.

Cousins was a dream for many posters, more or less including me. It was the presumable best available big man to be taken from his team, as Anthony Davis or Towns seem untradeable for some years to come. Now, there comes the news. Cousins has been traded for much less than we had imagined. Maybe with Jaylen, this year Minny's second and two future firsts (even non-Nets) would have been possible, so there must be something we don't know.

On the Cousin's trade thread (sounds funny) some of us have proposed some "theories" about attitudinal rejection, not fitting Brad's system, or even my crazy ones about the Pelicans ruining the Warriors in the first round to get an unhappy Durant or a pre-agreement/tampering with Hayward making us unable to add salary beyond this summer.

However, what if our management watch Zizic as an instant starter and good contributor? What if he is the reason we don't want another big man? He has progressed a lot this season from playing in his native country into being arguably the best player in a Euroleague good team, Darussafaka. Anyone can feel this makes sense? Honestly, I've been all the morning at work thinking about this missing oportunity, and I need some firm reason to believe Danny has done the right thing.

Thanks in advance for those answering.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 09:51:45 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Zizic looks like he will be a good, starting-caliber player, but he is not, and (I feel pretty confident saying) will not ever be on the level of Cousins.  Danny clearly had his reasons for not going after Cousins, but Zizic is not one of them
I'm bitter.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 09:54:30 AM »

Offline chiken Green

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This is Certainly a possibility..  Rebounds and Interior toughness is what this team needs and it sounds like Zizic has that and then some...  We're all hoping this kid is a solid player for us next year.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 10:04:42 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Zizic looks like he will be a good, starting-caliber player, but he is not, and (I feel pretty confident saying) will not ever be on the level of Cousins.  Danny clearly had his reasons for not going after Cousins, but Zizic is not one of them

So, my questions: Which bigs are short-term available fitting your criterion? I'm not saying Zizic will be as goos as Cousins, and in fact they are very different. What I'm proposing is that he might be more ready than we imagine to start for us next year and this could have been a huge factor for non playing the Cousins comedy.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 10:17:22 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Zizic looks like he will be a good, starting-caliber player, but he is not, and (I feel pretty confident saying) will not ever be on the level of Cousins.  Danny clearly had his reasons for not going after Cousins, but Zizic is not one of them

So, my questions: Which bigs are short-term available fitting your criterion? I'm not saying Zizic will be as goos as Cousins, and in fact they are very different. What I'm proposing is that he might be more ready than we imagine to start for us next year and this could have been a huge factor for non playing the Cousins comedy.

What criteria do I have for a short term big? I'd be fine with Danny not making any moves this trade deadline.

I'm saying that Zizic possibly being a starter for us has nothing to do with Danny's decision about Boogie.  That'd be like suggesting that Danny wasn't gonna go after Durant because we had Evan Turner at the same position - the players are so far apart that it doesn't make any sense to factor them into the decision.

I don't know everything about why Ainge made the decision not to trade for Cousins, but I can confidently say that Danny's decision had absolutely nothing to do with Zizic, and he would have made the exact same decision even if we didn't have Zizic's rights.
I'm bitter.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 10:33:48 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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Zizic looks like he will be a good, starting-caliber player, but he is not, and (I feel pretty confident saying) will not ever be on the level of Cousins.  Danny clearly had his reasons for not going after Cousins, but Zizic is not one of them

Respectfully disagree Jim. Think you may just be a bit bitter about missing out on Cousins.

Could absolutely see a world where Zizc becomes an instant contributor. Between our high usage guards (Fultz!) and Al Horford, Zizic wouldn't be counted on to score as much and could just focus on energy plays.

We don't need our Center position to drop 30+ a night, we have plenty of Offense already. Zizic has been working with an NBA caliber coaching staff and has been running the regimen Stevens designed for him. We've got to second place in the east on the backs of our guards and aren't all that far from elite contention if you can bring in Fultz, Jackson, or Isaac to join up with Zizic who could already be as much as around 80% into his development curve.

TP I'm buying what the OP's selling. Just like how we're not going outshoot the Warriors, we're not going to outbig the Pelicans. Is Zizic/Horford can give us 60% of the Pelicans frontcourt output our Guard play can handle the rest.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 10:39:48 AM »

Offline greece66

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Yep, I agree with BitterJim. Zizic has nothing to do with the C's not trading for DMC.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 10:40:01 AM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Zizic will come in and have a lot of little plays that swing games while averaging like 9 pts / 7 rb / 2 assist / 1 blk / 1.5 stl in his first year, but his advanced stats will be off the charts.  He will then make a leap early December of his second year.  I am going to link people to this post 1000 times in 2019.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 10:45:29 AM »

Offline i believe in brad

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I can buy brad not believing in the fit or not wanting to take on the headache, but no one passes up the chance at a top 3 big man (at a VERY reasonable price) because you have a limited upside stash in the Turkish league.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 10:47:36 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Žižić is the answer!
I am hoping that his defense will be good at the end of his rookie year. Rebounding will be there, contesting at the rim too. It is the foul trouble and perimiter D that need more work. We will add more good wings and run everybody out of the gym for years to come.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2017, 10:51:11 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Nice answers, even the ones who disagree (that's part of the process, you have some TPs). I also hope Danny won't sell the farm at the deadline for Butler or even Paul George, BitterJim.

As Smartacus has said, better than me, what I'm trying to explain is that Zizic, way ahead in his developmental curve than everyone thought, may contribute in what we need for a center in a soooo heavily outside-built team. Maybe next year we have IT, Fultz/Ball, Smart, Jaylen and Crowder outside. Maybe even Hayward or Bardley/Rozier if they are not traded. And, man, you only have one ball.

@Quetzalcoatl: I also expect a line of stats about 8 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block for his rookie year, if he receives about 20-25 minutes per game in a small ball team where Jae Crowder plays as stretch 4 many times. Bookmark this, and hopefully we are right  ;D

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 10:53:10 AM »

Offline LilRip

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I have a hard time imagining him being the "answer" to anything just yet. Granted he might be a nice piece but I don't think he's on the level of Embiid.
- LilRip

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 10:56:07 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He is not dominant in the league he is in now.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Ante-Zizic/GameLogs/49134

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Ante-Zizic/Summary/49134

He has had some good games and some stinkers, but how exactly does that translate to NBA excellence.   I get people need to have a blinky since we missed out DMC but he is not going to come over here and dominate.  He may contribute but he may not.   I hope I am wrong about it.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 11:01:03 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Zizic looks like he will be a good, starting-caliber player, but he is not, and (I feel pretty confident saying) will not ever be on the level of Cousins.  Danny clearly had his reasons for not going after Cousins, but Zizic is not one of them

Respectfully disagree Jim. Think you may just be a bit bitter about missing out on Cousins.

Could absolutely see a world where Zizc becomes an instant contributor. Between our high usage guards (Fultz!) and Al Horford, Zizic wouldn't be counted on to score as much and could just focus on energy plays.

We don't need our Center position to drop 30+ a night, we have plenty of Offense already. Zizic has been working with an NBA caliber coaching staff and has been running the regimen Stevens designed for him. We've got to second place in the east on the backs of our guards and aren't all that far from elite contention if you can bring in Fultz, Jackson, or Isaac to join up with Zizic who could already be as much as around 80% into his development curve.

TP I'm buying what the OP's selling. Just like how we're not going outshoot the Warriors, we're not going to outbig the Pelicans. Is Zizic/Horford can give us 60% of the Pelicans frontcourt output our Guard play can handle the rest.

I'm not bitter about missing out on Cousins (it's more of just a general state of being). I think that Danny had his reasons and while I would like an explanation, if he and 27 other GMs weren't willing to give up more than NO did then there's good reason for it.

I agree that Zizic could definitely contribute from the start (and said that he will be a good and starting-caliber player), but that's not the point.  The point is that he looks like he can be a decent or good player, but Boogie is a legit star.  You don't turn down a star because of a guy that could be a good player but will never be a superstar. 

You don't say no to a Chris Paul trade just because you have Eric Bledsoe, you don't say no to prime Carmelo Anthony just because you have Wilson Chandler, you don't say no to James Harden just because you have Courtney Lee, and you don't say no to Boogie just because you have Zizic (you do so because of his absolutely appalling attitude)
I'm bitter.

Re: May Zizic be the answer to our questions?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 12:31:01 PM »

Offline CelticPride2016

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The people who dominate this blog are extremely bitter! How many words did they spill on something in which they were completely wrong?

This is a great day. Danny is very smart to hoard assets and watch them grow.

I'll be surprised if Ainge does nothing. If that's what happens, I'll still be fairly happy going into the playoffs with Amir, Al and Kelly for this year if they are healthy. It is what it is. This may turn out to be nothing more than a bridge year in which all we can hope for is to get lucky- to at least win a series or two, not get swept in round one or only win two games like last year. We are just about wrapping up the rebuilding part from the Pierce/Garnett era. The Celtics' future remains very bright.

Zizic is impressive and we are going to be a much better team with him next year. I think he'll provide a much better result than Jaylen Brown is doing at his own position in a rookie year. Not that I'm negative on Brown. He is going to become amazing in a year or two.

Maybe the key center piece won't arrive until the 2018 Brooklyn pick or Danny makes a quicker move to reinforce the team for bigs. That's the thing. No one can predict anything. No one knows the future.

I am not putting all my hope into Zizic, but he seems to have more potential than all the others tried before him with the exception of perhaps Perk and a little bit of PJ Brown who was quality, albeit approaching the running on fumes end of his career. I wanted PJ to come back for 2009 after KG got hurt. It obviously didn't happen. I felt betrayed by PJ, but that's now from a long time ago.

Center is clearly Danny's blind spot, but it is also the toughest position to fill. Cousins was not worth the hassle.

People are upset with us not trading for Cousins because they wasted so much time discussing him and it never came close to happening. I spent a day or two hopeful for Sanders. When it didn't happen, I let it go. Those who wanted Cousins have bruised egos.

They are probably also upset the Celtics are currently a top five NBA team on a trajectory towards contending for titles year after year for many, many years.

This blog is basically broken.