Author Topic: The reality is clear now  (Read 4981 times)

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Re: The reality is clear now
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2017, 11:51:34 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Utah can't offer Hayward a supermax contract.  He doesn't qualify. Utah can offer him a 5/148 deal, but we can offer a 4/109 deal which works out to just ~$5 million less over four years

A couple of things have impacted Ainge's decision on whether there will be "fireworks."  First, the Brooklyn Nets' record has given the Celtics a fairly good chance at a top 1-2 pick in the draft.  This is the best way to get a transcendent player without having to trade for them and mortgage your entire franchise.  If the Nets had possibly the 5-6th worst record in the league right now Danny may very well have traded for Boogie.  But a top two pick plus prominent young players is too valuable to give up for Cousins.  Basically the Nets' futility this year has changed the game for the Celtics.

Secondly, Danny loves the deal.  Loves getting All Star players in exchange for expiring contracts and a second round pick (ex. IT).  And the best deals ever in the NBA are free agents.  You give up nothing and get an all star in return (ex. KD, Al Horford, etc.).  And Ainge has been so patient with new contracts the past four years, and not taking on excess salary, so that for the first time in forever they can sign two "max-ish" players in free agency (Horford being one).  While nothing is guaranteed in terms of free agents signing with the Celts this summer (Blake Griffin or Gordon Hayward) Danny will sign someone and they will be at the very least a valuable player (ex. Ilyasova, JJ Redick, Patrick Patterson, Nerlens Noel, Zaza Paculia) for a few years.  Not necessarily an All Star but a potential starter or 6th/7th man.  And he will have given up nothing in return for them, keeping the potential top 1-2-3 pick in the next two drafts.

And if we have an embarrassment of riches and not enough minutes to go around?  Well then you trade some of those riches for future picks in 2019 or 2020 and expiring contracts. 

While Ainge might pull the trigger for Butler I think he knows that this wouldn't result in a championship this year, or even the next two years.  But by using that cap space to sign another high quality player this year, and developing the talent already on the roster, and drafting well for three straight years (2016, 2017, 2018) he could build a dynasty that lasts for a decade.
Yes, but I would suggest that what really changed the game for the Celtics, based on this argument, is the failure to sign KD last off-season, most people knew the Nets would be bad this season.  IMO, the plan was to for the Horford signing to be enough to lure KD here.  Now DA has a chance once again this summer in free agency with the advantages you laid out.

Re: The reality is clear now
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2017, 12:01:19 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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Utah can't offer Hayward a supermax contract.  He doesn't qualify. Utah can offer him a 5/148 deal, but we can offer a 4/109 deal which works out to just ~$5 million less over four years

A couple of things have impacted Ainge's decision on whether there will be "fireworks."  First, the Brooklyn Nets' record has given the Celtics a fairly good chance at a top 1-2 pick in the draft.  This is the best way to get a transcendent player without having to trade for them and mortgage your entire franchise.  If the Nets had possibly the 5-6th worst record in the league right now Danny may very well have traded for Boogie.  But a top two pick plus prominent young players is too valuable to give up for Cousins.  Basically the Nets' futility this year has changed the game for the Celtics.

Secondly, Danny loves the deal.  Loves getting All Star players in exchange for expiring contracts and a second round pick (ex. IT).  And the best deals ever in the NBA are free agents.  You give up nothing and get an all star in return (ex. KD, Al Horford, etc.).  And Ainge has been so patient with new contracts the past four years, and not taking on excess salary, so that for the first time in forever they can sign two "max-ish" players in free agency (Horford being one).  While nothing is guaranteed in terms of free agents signing with the Celts this summer (Blake Griffin or Gordon Hayward) Danny will sign someone and they will be at the very least a valuable player (ex. Ilyasova, JJ Redick, Patrick Patterson, Nerlens Noel, Zaza Paculia) for a few years.  Not necessarily an All Star but a potential starter or 6th/7th man.  And he will have given up nothing in return for them, keeping the potential top 1-2-3 pick in the next two drafts.

And if we have an embarrassment of riches and not enough minutes to go around?  Well then you trade some of those riches for future picks in 2019 or 2020 and expiring contracts. 

While Ainge might pull the trigger for Butler I think he knows that this wouldn't result in a championship this year, or even the next two years.  But by using that cap space to sign another high quality player this year, and developing the talent already on the roster, and drafting well for three straight years (2016, 2017, 2018) he could build a dynasty that lasts for a decade.
Yes, but I would suggest that what really changed the game for the Celtics, based on this argument, is the failure to sign KD last off-season, most people knew the Nets would be bad this season.  IMO, the plan was to for the Horford signing to be enough to lure KD here.  Now DA has a chance once again this summer in free agency with the advantages you laid out.

I'm not sure that getting KD last summer would have changed Ainge's thoughts on whether to trade picks/players for Boogie.  If we were sitting here with KD on the roster now I still think Ainge would hold on to those picks based on the Nets' predicament.  Maybe he'd trade some other picks/players for rebounding help now, but I doubt he'd give up those crown jewels in those two Nets picks.

Re: The reality is clear now
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2017, 12:09:54 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Or he just doesn't like Cousins (as previous reports have stated)

This, obviously.
Why it's so difficult for people to understand the simple fact that Cousins is a psycho and will be detrimental to our team.
Because if Cousins was a normal player, Danny would have traded for him, obviously.
People forgot that he literally gave the farm for an end of his prime KG.

But he drafted rondo  ::)

Re: The reality is clear now
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2017, 12:49:29 PM »

Offline Casperian

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Ainge is electing to build through the draft.

We could have landed Cousins for Pennies on the dollar, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Smart gets it done in comparison to what Nola gave up.. and he's a player that fixes every major hole we have right now.

There will be no fireworks. Our team is currently competitive enough to please fans.. IT is putting fans in the seats, we have an all star coach and are second in a depleted East. In theory we have the #1 pick the next two years, and a young foundation of Smart and  Jaylen to build off of.. Hopefully it pays off, the draft is a crap shoot but I think Ainge's end goal is to become the no, IT will not get max money from Boston, it just doesn't fit the formula. Yes I know Horford got the max but he'll be off the books when it's time to pay Jaylen and extend Lonzo Ball.

next Warriors, not the team that loses to them for the next 4 years..

As a season ticket holder the thought of right now always excites me. I think everyone knows nothing can be done to beat the warriors so why try? It's clear Ainge is building for for the future and not right now, and I think I'm okay with that.

Just gonna be tough to stomach if these draftees turn out to be busts and all we have then are what ifs.
So what you re saying is that the IT/Horford era is to keep fans amused and to sell tix while the real goal is building around the youth.  I'm okay with that.

Yup, me too.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: The reality is clear now
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2017, 01:16:28 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Ainge is electing to build through the draft.

We could have landed Cousins for Pennies on the dollar, 2018 Brooklyn pick, Smart gets it done in comparison to what Nola gave up.. and he's a player that fixes every major hole we have right now.

There will be no fireworks. Our team is currently competitive enough to please fans.. IT is putting fans in the seats, we have an all star coach and are second in a depleted East. In theory we have the #1 pick the next two years, and a young foundation of Smart and  Jaylen to build off of.. Hopefully it pays off, the draft is a crap shoot but I think Ainge's end goal is to become the no, IT will not get max money from Boston, it just doesn't fit the formula. Yes I know Horford got the max but he'll be off the books when it's time to pay Jaylen and extend Lonzo Ball.

next Warriors, not the team that loses to them for the next 4 years..

As a season ticket holder the thought of right now always excites me. I think everyone knows nothing can be done to beat the warriors so why try? It's clear Ainge is building for for the future and not right now, and I think I'm okay with that.

Just gonna be tough to stomach if these draftees turn out to be busts and all we have then are what ifs.
So what you re saying is that the IT/Horford era is to keep fans amused and to sell tix while the real goal is building around the youth.  I'm okay with that.

Then why not tank a year?  Oh because they don't have a plan probably