Author Topic: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline  (Read 29209 times)

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Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2017, 12:28:53 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Butler is not worth two BRK picks and a starting player. That's just screams desperation.

I just do not understand these people offering the entire treasure chest for Butler. He is not worth it. I see people offering half the entire treasure chest for him. And I am like what NBA are these folks following. Danny should not trade the BKN picks at all. Build through the draft, Danny. There is a reason folks want you to unload those picks for players that are not moving the needle for them.

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2017, 12:35:15 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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This notion that Jimmy Butler is only marginally better than Bradley is ludicrous. Jimmy Butler is a top 15 player in this league. He has legit SG/SF size, plays good defense, and can create his own shot. I love Bradley but Butler is a superior player.

As far as cost goes, you are going to have the give up assets to get a top 15 player signed on a very team friendly. Only untraceable players in my eyes are IT and Horford and maybe Smart. Everyone else and picks are fair game.

This idea that Butler is a surefire top 15 player is getting old now. He's not on the level of guys like Durant and Lebron, the only type of player that would change our outlook this year, he's on he same level as guys like Wall and Lillard. Trading for him is the epitome of trading to be second best.

A year ago most of this board was against trading Crowder, Bradley and the Nets 16 pick for him. Crowder and Bradley have improved, Brown looks legit in his first year, a mini Butler in fact but with a higher ceiling. I see no reason why we should waste assets now to tie ourselves to mediocrity. Ainge has done a great job being patient so far, I hope he holds the line until a real difference maker comes along.

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2017, 12:40:53 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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If you have an opportunity to add a top 12 player you make the trade. The draft is a crapshoot. You have to take the proven player, especially one as young as Butler. I don't want to give up both pick and not brown but absolutely I'd trade either pick and bradley and whatever bench filler required.

I just don't get why Butler is so underrated on this forum. You do something like Bradley, Zeller, Rozier, Brooklyn 2017 for Butler+Gibson/Lopez and that's an instant contender. I don't see how that team doesn't go toe to toe with any team in the league.
Because people fall in love and overrate their favorite team's players and completely underrate other teams players.

Same deal when DA traded all the young guys for KG.  People were swearing they would me very watch the C's again because DA traded Big Al. How did that one work out?

Butler would be the best player on the C's send gives then a legit shot at the ECF. He's a legit 2 way player on a great deal. If Chicago goes the rebuilding route, they will want young players and draft picks. The C's can easily give them a mix of expiring deals, young players,  and picks.

The C's didn't sign Horford so they can sit and develop 19 year old lotto picks. They signed him to get IT help so they can try and contend. If they are going to wait around for lotto picks then there was no point in signing Horford and there is no point in extending IT either.

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2017, 12:45:23 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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This notion that Jimmy Butler is only marginally better than Bradley is ludicrous. Jimmy Butler is a top 15 player in this league. He has legit SG/SF size, plays good defense, and can create his own shot. I love Bradley but Butler is a superior player.

As far as cost goes, you are going to have the give up assets to get a top 15 player signed on a very team friendly. Only untraceable players in my eyes are IT and Horford and maybe Smart. Everyone else and picks are fair game.

This idea that Butler is a surefire top 15 player is getting old now. He's not on the level of guys like Durant and Lebron, the only type of player that would change our outlook this year, he's on he same level as guys like Wall and Lillard. Trading for him is the epitome of trading to be second best.

A year ago most of this board was against trading Crowder, Bradley and the Nets 16 pick for him. Crowder and Bradley have improved, Brown looks legit in his first year, a mini Butler in fact but with a higher ceiling. I see no reason why we should waste assets now to tie ourselves to mediocrity. Ainge has done a great job being patient so far, I hope he holds the line until a real difference maker comes along.
I hate to break this to you but there is like 3 real super stars in this league and they aren't likely to switch teams. That doesn't mean the C's should attempt to add a top 15 type player because they can't get one of those 3 guys. IT, Butler, Horford is a good core and it still gives the C's flexibility to add to it.

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2017, 12:50:55 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I would include any 3 of the following assets for Butler: Smart, Crowder, Bradley, Brown, 2017 first + filler.

None of those assets can do more than Butler currently can. Butler is on a pretty good contract, and his ability to hit the mid-range and get to the free throw line could really help out IT with the scoring load. His ability to guard SF's is also very necessary.

I was against a deal for Butler at first, but you got to give value to get it. You know you've made a good deal when both parties leave feeling cheated.

None of them can, maybe, but can he do more than all of them combined? It takes more than one player to win a championship.

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2017, 12:59:22 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Most id do is Brown, Bradley, 2017 BKN 1st, zeller, and MAYBE another non brooklyn first. Adding anymore players makes us worse overall

What are you Smokeeye? A Bull??

See what I did there?

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2017, 01:18:52 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Check this out from BS tweet. One JB trade I would actually do:

MIA from my trade deadline mailbag - theringer.com/the-trade-dead… - Butler/Lopez for Crowder/Amir/Zeller/2017 Brooklyn pick/2018 Boston pick?
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2017, 01:19:55 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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For the record, I looked up George's salary. His contract is almost identical to Butler's --5/$92M--except he signed a year earlier and becomes a UFA in 2019, a year earlier than Butler. Avg salary is $18.3M. He makes $18-20M per yr the next few years, counts about as much against the cap.

Butler and George  are both excellent buys in today's FA world. You expect to pay a premium for that. The Celtics have the kind of assets it will take to get either of these players.

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2017, 01:22:15 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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This notion that Jimmy Butler is only marginally better than Bradley is ludicrous. Jimmy Butler is a top 15 player in this league. He has legit SG/SF size, plays good defense, and can create his own shot. I love Bradley but Butler is a superior player.

As far as cost goes, you are going to have the give up assets to get a top 15 player signed on a very team friendly. Only untraceable players in my eyes are IT and Horford and maybe Smart. Everyone else and picks are fair game.

This idea that Butler is a surefire top 15 player is getting old now. He's not on the level of guys like Durant and Lebron, the only type of player that would change our outlook this year, he's on he same level as guys like Wall and Lillard. Trading for him is the epitome of trading to be second best.

A year ago most of this board was against trading Crowder, Bradley and the Nets 16 pick for him. Crowder and Bradley have improved, Brown looks legit in his first year, a mini Butler in fact but with a higher ceiling. I see no reason why we should waste assets now to tie ourselves to mediocrity. Ainge has done a great job being patient so far, I hope he holds the line until a real difference maker comes along.
I hate to break this to you but there is like 3 real super stars in this league and they aren't likely to switch teams. That doesn't mean the C's should attempt to add a top 15 type player because they can't get one of those 3 guys. IT, Butler, Horford is a good core and it still gives the C's flexibility to add to it.

You're right, those guys aren't switching teams. Unfortunately, two of them are on one team with 2 other all stars which makes competing for a title this year extremely difficult. Not impossible, just very difficult. The thing is, the alternative is to have 2 more chances at drafting elite players, whilst still having a very competitive team this year and the chance to add to it this summer.

Let's set aside whether I think Butler is worth a certain price or not because that is completely subjective. If no deal is made by the trade deadline, where does his price go? If it currently sits at Bradley, Smart and Nets 17 for example, can it go up further? Or is it likely to come down? He's on a team that will probably have a mid 20s pick this year, whose best young player is probably a back up point guard in this league, two ageing veterans who probably don't stick around after this year unless they smell money. So they become a lottery team with nothing to show for it. At that point a recently drafted Fultz/Ball/Smith Jr to build around looks pretty attractive. You would want some other assets along with it, but there's no way you're asking for Bradley, Smart or Brown anymore.

From our perspective, we would have the chance to sign a max FA this summer, something that DA seems intent on. Even if we falter in that attempt and a Butler trade can still be made, we could use our cap space to extend IT and then make a trade for Butler. That would help our cap situation heading into 2018 and may even mean we can keep Smart and Bradley as well, at least in the short term whilst we balance our roster.

Back to my subjectivity, I don't consider Butler a top 15 player in the league. I have in no particular order; Lebron, Durant, Davis, Curry, Thompson, Cousins, George, KAT, Lowry, Harden, Westbrook, IT, Leonard, Griffin, Paul, Giannis all before him. I then have Butler in a tier with Wall, Lillard, DeRozan just ahead of guys like Porzingis

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2017, 01:56:06 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Only way I am willing to trade both Brooklyn picks is if it's going to New Orleans for Anthony Davis lol


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2017, 01:59:14 PM »

Offline BlackCeltic

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Only way I am willing to trade both Brooklyn picks is if it's going to New Orleans for Anthony Davis lol

Or Cousins....

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2017, 02:09:51 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If Chicago is trading Butler, they are going for a rebuild.  If you are going for a rebuild, what would they want with Crowder or Bradley?  Those are the kind of players that keep you from completely sucking and cost you draft position.

Mike
I agree.  Seems obviously they would want Smart and/or Brown plus the BKN pick and then filler. 

and if they are rebuilding they don't need Gibson, so I would do something like this

Chicago - Brown, Rozier, Zeller, Johnson, BKN 17, BOS 18 (lotto protected)
Boston - Butler, Gibson, Canaan

So post trade 1 open spot
PG - Thomas, Canaan, Jackson
SG - Bradley, Smart, Young
SF - Butler, Crowder, Green
PF - Gibson, Jerebko, Mickey
C - Horford, Olynyk

Playoff rotation would be something like the top 8 i.e. Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Butler, Crowder, Gibson, Horford, and Olynyk

Boston needs to hang on the the Brooklyn '17 pick.

Last year didn't they want, Bradley, Crowder and our pick which turned into Jaylen Brown?
Why not reboot that trade. Zeller and Gibson and one of our overseas assets are negotiable.

Butler may not move the needle to put us over the top.  But if we hold onto the  Brooklyn picks, it might allow us to turn another  Draft Day  into Xmas!

I'd only move Brooklyn picks  for a handful of players.
why does Boston need to hang onto the pick, so that someday maybe it will have a player be as good as Butler is now and in the process have Horford, Thomas, etc. not be in their prime anymore. 

I get it, that pick might end up being a great player, but Butler is a great player right now, signed to a long term deal for good value, and you know might actually help Boston win now.  No way you give up both BKN picks for him as he doesn't have that kind of value, but 1 of them is fine value.
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Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2017, 02:19:00 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Just looking at this quickly, is there some reason we can't acquire Butler using players with guaranteed 2017 contracts (Bradley, Rozier, and Crowder) plus Brooklyn 2017 and still have enough cap space to sign Hayward in the offseason with some tinkering like letting Olynyk plus all expirings and nonguaranteeds walk? If we do this kind of trade, we would only have roughly $62+ million in guaranteed salaries for next year and that would include Butler. Next year's cap is projected to be $102 million. I can only come up with roster spot holds, 3 second rounders, and maybe adding Zizic as other cap expenses. It seems possibly doable but maybe one of the serious capologists on the site knows better.

Projected starting lineup:
Zizic
Horford
Butler
Hayward
Thomas

Bench:
Smart
Brown
NBA minimum bigs?

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2017, 04:43:52 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Blakely just posted an article that will teach you absolutely nothing about Chicago's requirements in a potential deal. The guy doesn't have a single source. What do they pay him for?
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Latest: Woj thinks Butler could wind up in Boston before deadline
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2017, 04:55:35 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Sporting news weighs in

Quote
There have been tepid discussions about Butler-to-the-Celtics at various times over the past year, though nothing pressing in recent weeks, according to league sources. It’s safe to assume that there will be renewed talks this week. But that does not mean a deal will get done, not with both sides tentative about the wisdom of a trade that the rest of the NBA’s observer class seems to think is such an obvious fit. 1 hour ago – via Sporting News

They seem to think PJ Tucker is more likely

Quote
They can do that without Butler, instead trying to make a minor move for a contributor like Suns forward P.J. Tucker. Boston has expressed deep interest in Tucker ahead of the deadline, a source said. Get Tucker, and the Celtics can add depth without giving up on a potential No. 1 pick. And there is cap space available this summer to sign a player in free agency. Without trading for Butler, Boston could keep the pick and get a name player this summer. 1 hour ago – via Sporting