Author Topic: Obamacare/Trumpcare  (Read 7568 times)

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Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2017, 09:34:04 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The Republican plan is more of the same. If anything, I see it leading to premiums increasing even faster.
I mean who knew healthcare could be so hard. 
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Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2017, 09:41:49 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Glad to see the insurance companies will no longer have to deal with the bothersome cap of a $500,000 deduction for executive pay.


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Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2017, 09:53:29 AM »

Offline gift

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I'm not familiar with the nuance of either plan, but I think we absolutely need to focus on preventative treatment/lifestyle/medicine etc.

Also, I think the demand for healthcare services is just way too high for a variety of reasons. Among them is a culture of healthcare use/overuse/unnecessary treatments, which is partly due to having such an insurance-reliant system in the first place.

Health care should be ensured, not insured. Insuring health care is necessarily a loss for consumers and prohibitive for those who can't afford it. It creates barriers to access and raises costs disproportionately. Ensuring health care is difficult to achieve, but if done correctly, achieves goals of both availability and affordability of the health care system.

It's a radical move and cannot be achieved in one simple step, but insuring health care should be illegal and an alternative which guarantees service in a sustainable, quality way should be put in place. Until we do this, we are all losing. The question is just by how much.


Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2017, 10:03:31 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't understand who Paul Ryan thinks this is helping.

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Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 10:04:07 AM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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Unless we go to single payer our system will always be a disaster.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2017, 10:04:54 AM »

Offline TomHeinsohn

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I don't understand who Paul Ryan thinks this is helping.
It's helping Paul Ryan and those who give Paul Ryan money.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2017, 03:12:33 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I don't understand who Paul Ryan thinks this is helping.
It's helping Paul Ryan and those who give Paul Ryan money.
pretty much.  the other winners seem to be those who are typically healthy and only purchased health insurance because they were required to.  (I'm not a fan of that aspect of Obamacare but the necessity of having everyone pitching into the cost is how most government services are paid for and justified). 

The issue with the healthy people dropping coverage, it'll dramatically increase rates for those who have insurance (you can bet the insurers will be getting the money to cover expenses from someone) and if they in turn become sick, they have no insurance to pay the costs which again, gets dumped onto others to pay towards the costs.  Hospitals and doctors (hospital based) are typically required to treat the sick regardless of payment ability but they will pass those 'uncollectable' costs along to those that are insured in the form of higher billings.

it's an endless cycle that will not change until the country moves towards single payer and away from employer-based payments/insurance plans.  this won't get rid of insurance companies (most do business with Medicare and Medicaid) but would hopefully drive them to be more efficient in handling finances --> there's a load of regulations on insuring people covered under government programs.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2017, 03:16:20 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I don't understand who Paul Ryan thinks this is helping.
It's helping Paul Ryan and those who give Paul Ryan money.
pretty much.  the other winners seem to be those who are typically healthy and only purchased health insurance because they were required to.  (I'm not a fan of that aspect of Obamacare but the necessity of having everyone pitching into the cost is how most government services are paid for and justified). 

The issue with the healthy people dropping coverage, it'll dramatically increase rates for those who have insurance (you can bet the insurers will be getting the money to cover expenses from someone) and if they in turn become sick, they have no insurance to pay the costs which again, gets dumped onto others to pay towards the costs.  Hospitals and doctors (hospital based) are typically required to treat the sick regardless of payment ability but they will pass those 'uncollectable' costs along to those that are insured in the form of higher billings.

it's an endless cycle that will not change until the country moves towards single payer and away from employer-based payments/insurance plans.  this won't get rid of insurance companies (most do business with Medicare and Medicaid) but would hopefully drive them to be more efficient in handling finances --> there's a load of regulations on insuring people covered under government programs.

Yeah it's an endless cycle because you can bribe Republicans with campaign funds every year until they gut useful legislation. 

Like who is going to be helped when the Republicans kill net neutrality?  We're probably going to lose this site because of that.  https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-07/net-neutrality-foe-ajit-pai-said-renominated-by-trump-to-fcc

It only helps a few super rich Republican donors.  It's really hard to point to anything that Republicans do that has inherent value to the populous. Everything is just designed to trash anything useful.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2017, 03:31:51 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'm not familiar with the nuance of either plan, but I think we absolutely need to focus on preventative treatment/lifestyle/medicine etc.

Also, I think the demand for healthcare services is just way too high for a variety of reasons. Among them is a culture of healthcare use/overuse/unnecessary treatments, which is partly due to having such an insurance-reliant system in the first place.

Health care should be ensured, not insured. Insuring health care is necessarily a loss for consumers and prohibitive for those who can't afford it. It creates barriers to access and raises costs disproportionately. Ensuring health care is difficult to achieve, but if done correctly, achieves goals of both availability and affordability of the health care system.

It's a radical move and cannot be achieved in one simple step, but insuring health care should be illegal and an alternative which guarantees service in a sustainable, quality way should be put in place. Until we do this, we are all losing. The question is just by how much.


I strongly agree the emphasis on health care should be on prevention. We will not see a single legitimate point in any health care plan from either party that makes an honest effort to improve preventative health care though, because prevention is nowhere near as profitable as treatment. They would crush one of the most profitable industries in the country if they really focused on prevention.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 03:43:11 PM »

Online Surferdad

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I'm not familiar with the nuance of either plan, but I think we absolutely need to focus on preventative treatment/lifestyle/medicine etc.

Also, I think the demand for healthcare services is just way too high for a variety of reasons. Among them is a culture of healthcare use/overuse/unnecessary treatments, which is partly due to having such an insurance-reliant system in the first place.

Health care should be ensured, not insured. Insuring health care is necessarily a loss for consumers and prohibitive for those who can't afford it. It creates barriers to access and raises costs disproportionately. Ensuring health care is difficult to achieve, but if done correctly, achieves goals of both availability and affordability of the health care system.

It's a radical move and cannot be achieved in one simple step, but insuring health care should be illegal and an alternative which guarantees service in a sustainable, quality way should be put in place. Until we do this, we are all losing. The question is just by how much.


I strongly agree the emphasis on health care should be on prevention. We will not see a single legitimate point in any health care plan from either party that makes an honest effort to improve preventative health care though, because prevention is nowhere near as profitable as treatment. They would crush one of the most profitable industries in the country if they really focused on prevention.
As a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, I readily admit that ACA does not sufficiently address prevention either.  Ironically, that is actually the best solution to rising health care costs and would lead to a healthier population, which is the goal.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2017, 03:44:04 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm not familiar with the nuance of either plan, but I think we absolutely need to focus on preventative treatment/lifestyle/medicine etc.

Also, I think the demand for healthcare services is just way too high for a variety of reasons. Among them is a culture of healthcare use/overuse/unnecessary treatments, which is partly due to having such an insurance-reliant system in the first place.

Health care should be ensured, not insured. Insuring health care is necessarily a loss for consumers and prohibitive for those who can't afford it. It creates barriers to access and raises costs disproportionately. Ensuring health care is difficult to achieve, but if done correctly, achieves goals of both availability and affordability of the health care system.

It's a radical move and cannot be achieved in one simple step, but insuring health care should be illegal and an alternative which guarantees service in a sustainable, quality way should be put in place. Until we do this, we are all losing. The question is just by how much.


I strongly agree the emphasis on health care should be on prevention. We will not see a single legitimate point in any health care plan from either party that makes an honest effort to improve preventative health care though, because prevention is nowhere near as profitable as treatment. They would crush one of the most profitable industries in the country if they really focused on prevention.
that's what makes defunding planned parenthood so bad.  It is almost all about preventative medicine.
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Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2017, 03:58:53 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I'm not familiar with the nuance of either plan, but I think we absolutely need to focus on preventative treatment/lifestyle/medicine etc.

Also, I think the demand for healthcare services is just way too high for a variety of reasons. Among them is a culture of healthcare use/overuse/unnecessary treatments, which is partly due to having such an insurance-reliant system in the first place.

Health care should be ensured, not insured. Insuring health care is necessarily a loss for consumers and prohibitive for those who can't afford it. It creates barriers to access and raises costs disproportionately. Ensuring health care is difficult to achieve, but if done correctly, achieves goals of both availability and affordability of the health care system.

It's a radical move and cannot be achieved in one simple step, but insuring health care should be illegal and an alternative which guarantees service in a sustainable, quality way should be put in place. Until we do this, we are all losing. The question is just by how much.


I strongly agree the emphasis on health care should be on prevention. We will not see a single legitimate point in any health care plan from either party that makes an honest effort to improve preventative health care though, because prevention is nowhere near as profitable as treatment. They would crush one of the most profitable industries in the country if they really focused on prevention.
As a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, I readily admit that ACA does not sufficiently address prevention either.  Ironically, that is actually the best solution to rising health care costs and would lead to a healthier population, which is the goal.

It may not have sufficiently addressed it, but it does address it.  For example:

http://kff.org/health-reform/fact-sheet/preventive-services-covered-by-private-health-plans/

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2017/02/obamacare-medicaid-expansion-improved-preventive-care

Not to mention that increasing access to insurance by itself will increase access to preventive practices, as many insurers create incentives for participating in annual check-ups and routine screenings (as they know it's cheaper and want to pay or less in claims.)

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2017, 04:24:39 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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It's hard for me to assess the new bill because they're pushing it through without a CBO score, but that alone tells me it's not going to score well, at all. Estimates are that it may remove coverage from as many as 10-15 million people.

It's not a surprise this bill is getting attacked from the left, but it's also getting pilloried by much of the right - the Heritage Foundation, Americans for Progress, and other conservative groups have already come out against it. I have a hard time seeing a bill that could earn a majority of R support - too many reps in the "total repeal, screw the consequences" and "taking health coverage from 10s of millions is political suicide" camps. In theory this should create incentives to reach across the aisle and find support among the Dems, but in reality haha.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2017, 04:30:15 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'm not familiar with the nuance of either plan, but I think we absolutely need to focus on preventative treatment/lifestyle/medicine etc.

Also, I think the demand for healthcare services is just way too high for a variety of reasons. Among them is a culture of healthcare use/overuse/unnecessary treatments, which is partly due to having such an insurance-reliant system in the first place.

Health care should be ensured, not insured. Insuring health care is necessarily a loss for consumers and prohibitive for those who can't afford it. It creates barriers to access and raises costs disproportionately. Ensuring health care is difficult to achieve, but if done correctly, achieves goals of both availability and affordability of the health care system.

It's a radical move and cannot be achieved in one simple step, but insuring health care should be illegal and an alternative which guarantees service in a sustainable, quality way should be put in place. Until we do this, we are all losing. The question is just by how much.


I strongly agree the emphasis on health care should be on prevention. We will not see a single legitimate point in any health care plan from either party that makes an honest effort to improve preventative health care though, because prevention is nowhere near as profitable as treatment. They would crush one of the most profitable industries in the country if they really focused on prevention.
As a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, I readily admit that ACA does not sufficiently address prevention either.  Ironically, that is actually the best solution to rising health care costs and would lead to a healthier population, which is the goal.

It may not have sufficiently addressed it, but it does address it.  For example:

http://kff.org/health-reform/fact-sheet/preventive-services-covered-by-private-health-plans/

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2017/02/obamacare-medicaid-expansion-improved-preventive-care

Not to mention that increasing access to insurance by itself will increase access to preventive practices, as many insurers create incentives for participating in annual check-ups and routine screenings (as they know it's cheaper and want to pay or less in claims.)
There's a provision in the ACA that requires preventive services be provided at 100% coverage for plan members.  None of these services can be subject to deductibles, copayment or coinsurance.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2017, 05:54:35 PM »

Offline Redz

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Glad to see the insurance companies will no longer have to deal with the bothersome cap of a $500,000 deduction for executive pay.
Hooray for the CEO's!




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