Author Topic: Obamacare/Trumpcare  (Read 5106 times)

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Obamacare/Trumpcare
« on: February 18, 2017, 07:34:17 PM »

Offline Cman

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This is a splinter from the President Trump thread:

I know that some have benefitted and some have not from ACA.   I do think it's important to remember that this country has had a healthcare cost "crisis" for a very long time in America and nothing was being done to address it. 

I began paying my own (family) health insurance in 2001 when I first became self-employed.  It cost me about $1000 per month for an excellent, low-deductible PPO Blue Cross plan.  By 2009 (pre-ACA), I was paying about $1500 per month for a plan that was not as good. By the time my wife got back into the workforce in 2014 and her employer began covering our health insurance, our cost was more than $1800 per month.  My point is that our costs rose with the ACA, but was rising significantly prior to the ACA.   

This is just one anecdote, but I sometimes think people forget how healthcare costs were skyrocketing PRIOR to the ACA.  Something needed to be done and they knew it since back in the Clinton years.  Congress could never agree.  And if not for Obama, nothing would have changed and costs would still be rising. 

Just before the ACA, I got quotes for myself and my wife and my son. $1200 per month for a decent plan, total out of pocket potential for $5k, but low enough deductibles per service. Not great, but what...that was well over 25% of my takehome pay. We pay substantially less now and for significantly better coverage. Thanks, Obama! Please don't gut our checkbook, President Trump!
No worries  -- Trump has mentioned a few times his grand plan is to dump Obamacare for HSA (Health Savings Accounts).  that's right, HSA's.  for those not familiar with the concept, is a pre-tax savings account you personally fund without assistance and use to pay medical bills without assistance from insurance or govt programs.  that's right, medicare and medicaid recipients will still get their supported health care but the average person that's been required to get healthcare (many with federal financial support towards the premiums) will now be expected to foot the entire bill themselves.  but hey, as least it's pre-tax dollars!!

There's not really any question that since the ACA was enacted: (a) more people have become insured (that probably otherwise wouldn't have) and (b) healthcare costs growth rates have slowed. Health care costs are still rising--they probably always will, just like the cost of an ice cream will always rise--but the key is that the trajectory of growth has been significantly altered. Though, some might argue that it has happened despite Obamacare, not because of Obamacare.

Regardless, here's my personal story:

I pay more per month for my health care than I did pre-ACA, but I now have two kids (pre ACA it was just my wife and me). On the other hand,  the growth rate of the premiums has been very low (going up by 2% or so) the last couple years. The quality of the plan is WAY better than what I had pre ACA. In general, I'm very happy with what I have. I feel like I have good health (and dental and vision) coverage, good doctors to choose from, good clean offices and not long waits... I'm happy. I will be upset if I have to pay more out of pocket for worse service.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2017, 07:39:39 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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the US needs to keep it all simple. adopt the same system as the French,which is widely considered to be the best in the world.

failing that, simply give all the citiizens of the US the same plan that the US congress provides to its member. fair is fair.  ;D
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2017, 08:03:13 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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the US needs to keep it all simple. adopt the same system as the French,which is widely considered to be the best in the world.

failing that, simply give all the citiizens of the US the same plan that the US congress provides to its member. fair is fair.  ;D

Funny enough, that was proposed and Congress did not approve it. Go figure. If it's good enough for them, why isn't it good enough for the whole country?

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 08:20:45 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Any government run system that ends up costing me more is going to be a big problem for me.

My current plan is a PPO with a $400 deductible and out-of-pocket maximum of $1600 per year (I'm single - no kids).  The prescription coverage is pretty decent.  I pay $27/week in payroll deductions for this plan ($1404 yearly).  My employer doesn't tell us how much of my premium they pay, although I imagine it is probably at least double my weekly payroll deduction (based on the fact salaried employees pay more in payroll deductions).  It's a very large multinational corporation that can obviously afford to provide about as good of coverage as a working class person can expect (they also have a lot of "buying power").

Side note: my previous employer was much smaller and thus I paid about 50% higher weekly premiums via payroll deductions.  The ACA really made a huge difference in what I had to pay, and I also had to take a HDHP, which meant even higher out-of-pocket costs.

So, here's my thing: prove to me a government run program isn't going to cost me more than what I currently pay.  You could include what my employer pays as part of that equation, but I'm certain that if they no longer had to pay that amount they'd just pocket that instead of paying it to me in wages.  That's probably a wash.  Keep any increase in my taxes below what my theoretical yearly maximum cost is and I'll consider it.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2017, 08:24:47 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Any government run system that ends up costing me more is going to be a big problem for me.

My current plan is a PPO with a $400 deductible and out-of-pocket maximum of $1600 per year (I'm single - no kids).  The prescription coverage is pretty decent.  I pay $27/week in payroll deductions for this plan ($1404 yearly).  My employer doesn't tell us how much of my premium they pay, although I imagine it is probably at least double my weekly payroll deduction (based on the fact salaried employees pay more in payroll deductions).  It's a very large multinational corporation that can obviously afford to provide about as good of coverage as a working class person can expect (they also have a lot of "buying power").

Side note: my previous employer was much smaller and thus I paid about 50% higher weekly premiums via payroll deductions.  The ACA really made a huge difference in what I had to pay, and I also had to take a HDHP, which meant even higher out-of-pocket costs.

So, here's my thing: prove to me a government run program isn't going to cost me more than what I currently pay.  You could include what my employer pays as part of that equation, but I'm certain that if they no longer had to pay that amount they'd just pocket that instead of paying it to me in wages.  That's probably a wash.  Keep any increase in my taxes below what my theoretical yearly maximum cost is and I'll consider it.
how about a government run system that saves you money? that is possible. some other countries have just that.

look at canada, france, UK, spain, and so forth. the way to calculate all this is to figure out the total costs to you per year, regardless of whether it is going to a private vendor or the government.

then factor in the actual medical benefits you receive.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2017, 08:29:26 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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the US needs to keep it all simple. adopt the same system as the French,which is widely considered to be the best in the world.

failing that, simply give all the citiizens of the US the same plan that the US congress provides to its member. fair is fair.  ;D

Funny enough, that was proposed and Congress did not approve it. Go figure. If it's good enough for them, why isn't it good enough for the whole country?
it is good enough for the entire country. tell that to your representatives. now is the time to speak up locally and nationally.

if things proceed as expected for now, you can expect to get fewer medical procedures covered and less coverage. plus many people will simply lose medical care.

i have no idea why the people of the US stand for such treatment. when my friends in other countries hear about our medical care system, the always ask why the people of the US dont demand change for a better system.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2017, 08:32:06 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Any government run system that ends up costing me more is going to be a big problem for me.

My current plan is a PPO with a $400 deductible and out-of-pocket maximum of $1600 per year (I'm single - no kids).  The prescription coverage is pretty decent.  I pay $27/week in payroll deductions for this plan ($1404 yearly).  My employer doesn't tell us how much of my premium they pay, although I imagine it is probably at least double my weekly payroll deduction (based on the fact salaried employees pay more in payroll deductions).  It's a very large multinational corporation that can obviously afford to provide about as good of coverage as a working class person can expect (they also have a lot of "buying power").

Side note: my previous employer was much smaller and thus I paid about 50% higher weekly premiums via payroll deductions.  The ACA really made a huge difference in what I had to pay, and I also had to take a HDHP, which meant even higher out-of-pocket costs.

So, here's my thing: prove to me a government run program isn't going to cost me more than what I currently pay.  You could include what my employer pays as part of that equation, but I'm certain that if they no longer had to pay that amount they'd just pocket that instead of paying it to me in wages.  That's probably a wash.  Keep any increase in my taxes below what my theoretical yearly maximum cost is and I'll consider it.
how about a government run system that saves you money? that is possible. some other countries have just that.

look at canada, france, UK, spain, and so forth. the way to calculate all this is to figure out the total costs to you per year, regardless of whether it is going to a private vendor or the government.

then factor in the actual medical benefits you receive.

Yes, I have serious doubts I won't end up paying more than an additional $3000 per year in taxes.  I also doubt the medical care will be equal to what I already have.

For someone in the lower-middle class, that ain't going to work.  Also, as someone without kids, I'm sure I'll get doubly screwed.  I already do, I doubt anyone in my tax bracket pays a higher percentage of their income to Uncle Scam.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 08:48:30 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Any government run system that ends up costing me more is going to be a big problem for me.

My current plan is a PPO with a $400 deductible and out-of-pocket maximum of $1600 per year (I'm single - no kids).  The prescription coverage is pretty decent.  I pay $27/week in payroll deductions for this plan ($1404 yearly).  My employer doesn't tell us how much of my premium they pay, although I imagine it is probably at least double my weekly payroll deduction (based on the fact salaried employees pay more in payroll deductions).  It's a very large multinational corporation that can obviously afford to provide about as good of coverage as a working class person can expect (they also have a lot of "buying power").

Side note: my previous employer was much smaller and thus I paid about 50% higher weekly premiums via payroll deductions.  The ACA really made a huge difference in what I had to pay, and I also had to take a HDHP, which meant even higher out-of-pocket costs.

So, here's my thing: prove to me a government run program isn't going to cost me more than what I currently pay.  You could include what my employer pays as part of that equation, but I'm certain that if they no longer had to pay that amount they'd just pocket that instead of paying it to me in wages.  That's probably a wash.  Keep any increase in my taxes below what my theoretical yearly maximum cost is and I'll consider it.


Well I suppose that if I were in your situation I'd be ok with the private insurance system.
But I can't even comprehend how you are paying so little.

Pre ACA my family insurance (covering my wife, son, and I) cost approx $1400/ month with a $5000 deductable. My employer picked up half the monthly premium.

Now I'm in different job with no insurance offered.
Our ACA plan is virtually identical except it costs $800/ month and ACA picks up half the monthly.

I am greatful for the ACA, and want to see it strengthened.

A real solution would be to allow people to buy into a public option plan.
Essentially opening up the plan that congress gets to anyone who wants in.
The huge risk pool would lower premiums further.
Best of all all those people who are wedded to the free market insurance system could keep buying private insurance.

I'm pretty sure a lot would change their tune and chose the public option after seeing the actual savings.

That's the real fear. If offered this option Americans would flock to it, then the insurance industry would stop making record profits every year, the free market system would collapse and we'd wake up one day to find ourselves living in a COMMUNIST STATE!*
Which we all know is so much more likely then finding ourselves living in a corporatocracy ruled by a tiny minority of ultra rich oligarchs.**

Good going America.***
Way to stand up for freedom!****

*sarcasm
**more sarcasm
***so much more sarcasm
****just a wee bit more sarcasm

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2017, 08:50:23 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I hate the current system, but understand that all people need to be covered. I am self-employed and saw my rates more than triple for a similar plan to what I had pre-Obamacare. Because of my level of income, I receive no subsidy, which is fine; I just wonder why rates increased so drastically (in my case, anyway) if people without insurance were already being treated and the costs of those treatments were already being passed on to the health care consumer.

I do think we need a national healthcare program, but the way it is now (less 'liberal'  states able to limit options) needs to change - a public option would be a nice start.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2017, 09:55:03 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I get free healthcare the rest of my life from the VA, and have excellent private insurance as well.  The ADA did not affect me one way or the other,

I can't understand why we do not get cheaper meds and have to subsidize the rest of the world's cheaper meds.   

Some things should not be run for profit and I think medicine should be one of those things.  I have lived in Europe while in the Army and visisted Canada and most the negative talking points that folks say about their medical systems are false.   People griped about taxes but they loved their system and I lived in Germany for three years and stayed two weeks in Canada.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 10:00:09 PM »

Offline Jon

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The reality that no one wants to face is that good health care with all the medical advancements we have is going to cost a lot of money. But that is the price we pay for being able to cure thousands of things that would have killed us decades or centuries ago.

There are better ways than others to do this and I support a single payer plan, but anyone thinking it's not going to be a substantial investment is kidding themselves.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 10:00:16 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Any government run system that ends up costing me more is going to be a big problem for me.

My current plan is a PPO with a $400 deductible and out-of-pocket maximum of $1600 per year (I'm single - no kids).  The prescription coverage is pretty decent.  I pay $27/week in payroll deductions for this plan ($1404 yearly).  My employer doesn't tell us how much of my premium they pay, although I imagine it is probably at least double my weekly payroll deduction (based on the fact salaried employees pay more in payroll deductions).  It's a very large multinational corporation that can obviously afford to provide about as good of coverage as a working class person can expect (they also have a lot of "buying power").

Side note: my previous employer was much smaller and thus I paid about 50% higher weekly premiums via payroll deductions.  The ACA really made a huge difference in what I had to pay, and I also had to take a HDHP, which meant even higher out-of-pocket costs.

So, here's my thing: prove to me a government run program isn't going to cost me more than what I currently pay.  You could include what my employer pays as part of that equation, but I'm certain that if they no longer had to pay that amount they'd just pocket that instead of paying it to me in wages.  That's probably a wash.  Keep any increase in my taxes below what my theoretical yearly maximum cost is and I'll consider it.
Count your blessings you pay so little.  I work for a health insurer and pay About $70 biweekly for me and another $85 tacked on for my spouse to be covered.  I know how much my company is picking up of the cost and I'm only paying about 20-25%.    you're estimate of the total cost paid by your company is very probably very far off.

as for other comments about giving everyone the same coverage as those in Congress, I'm not 100% sure if they have the standard coverage offered to federal employees, of which my spouse happens to be one and have  this coverage which costs her about $70 biweekly, or if they have something better but my wife's coverage is not very good which requires me to keep her covered under my plan. 

for example, if she wasn't covered under both of our policies, a trip she had to the ER about a year and a half ago would have cost us approximately $1500 under just her insurance.  it takes just one unexpected health incident to really screw a family into medical bill hell.  I count our blessings that we're in the position of being able to cover my wife under 2 insurance plans.  fortunately though my health is not great, I'm not in a position to have it financially worth it to be covered under her plan as well as my own.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 08:32:55 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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So now we have it.  The Republican Plan is out.  First I will say that I agree with removing the the employer mandate.  I never liked it but understood it was needed as a bridge for people.  Now I think we should get rid of it.  The sooner we decouple Health Care from our Business, the better for both heath care and business.

Other than that, this whole things is nothing but politics.  Getting rid of the mandate is dumb.  Everyone needs to be in this system. If you want to buy a private policy (outside the exchanges), fine, knock yourself out but anyone running around without insurance is a potential burden on tax payers.

This idea that having 50 different state medicare programs instead of one national program will save "tremendous amounts of money" as stated by the White House Budget Director on TV this morning is simply nonsense.  States are going to be given less money to deal with a problem that only will grow.  It is total pass the buck politics.  This infuriates me.

And the Planned Parenthood thing, why cloud the health care discussion with this.  Just deal with the very difficult health care issue and if you want to outlaw abortions, deal with that separately.  This is only part of the current discussion as a political stunt to create a distraction, probably right out of the "Art of the Deal" book.

Congress approval rating is at 28%.  I predict a drop.  I applaud John McCain but he is about the only one these days.  Actually I like Elizabeth Warren too; I like that she said she though Scott Brown would be a great head of the Dept. of Veterans Affairs.  She actually stays above the fray for the most part.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 09:01:16 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Any government run system that ends up costing me more is going to be a big problem for me.

My current plan is a PPO with a $400 deductible and out-of-pocket maximum of $1600 per year (I'm single - no kids).  The prescription coverage is pretty decent.  I pay $27/week in payroll deductions for this plan ($1404 yearly).  My employer doesn't tell us how much of my premium they pay, although I imagine it is probably at least double my weekly payroll deduction (based on the fact salaried employees pay more in payroll deductions).  It's a very large multinational corporation that can obviously afford to provide about as good of coverage as a working class person can expect (they also have a lot of "buying power").

Side note: my previous employer was much smaller and thus I paid about 50% higher weekly premiums via payroll deductions.  The ACA really made a huge difference in what I had to pay, and I also had to take a HDHP, which meant even higher out-of-pocket costs.

So, here's my thing: prove to me a government run program isn't going to cost me more than what I currently pay.  You could include what my employer pays as part of that equation, but I'm certain that if they no longer had to pay that amount they'd just pocket that instead of paying it to me in wages.  That's probably a wash.  Keep any increase in my taxes below what my theoretical yearly maximum cost is and I'll consider it.
how about a government run system that saves you money? that is possible. some other countries have just that.

look at canada, france, UK, spain, and so forth. the way to calculate all this is to figure out the total costs to you per year, regardless of whether it is going to a private vendor or the government.

then factor in the actual medical benefits you receive.

Yes, I have serious doubts I won't end up paying more than an additional $3000 per year in taxes.  I also doubt the medical care will be equal to what I already have.

For someone in the lower-middle class, that ain't going to work.  Also, as someone without kids, I'm sure I'll get doubly screwed.  I already do, I doubt anyone in my tax bracket pays a higher percentage of their income to Uncle Scam.

And look at the UK...they had one of, if not the, top healthcare system in the world. Instead of sustaining it, a rightward leaning government has taken over, and is slowly selling off chunks to private investors and underfunding the remaining public portion, just so that it seems ineffective, thus justifying further sell-offs...and it's tanking.

Re: Obamacare/Trumpcare
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 09:27:17 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The Republican plan is more of the same. If anything, I see it leading to premiums increasing even faster.


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