Author Topic: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17  (Read 5923 times)

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Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #345 on: February 16, 2017, 12:18:29 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Someone remind me why we're starting Amir over Kelly again

Because it is not always the best strategy to start your best players. You need some depth on your bench too.

Because of matchups?

Because of pairings?

Because the coaches actually know best.

I don't know why Stevens is wedded to Amir as a starter.  Maybe he's afraid Kelly would get lost playing mostly with IT.  Maybe he thinks we need offense in the second unit.  Maybe promises were made to Amir about playing time and to Al about playing with a traditional big.  Who can say?

But if you're going to rip a coach when things don't work, you have to credit them when things do work.  Look at teams like Detroit, Orlando or Milwaukee who play below their talent level and sometimes have done so for years.  Without a real franchise player (no offense, IT), Stevens has the Cs in position to possibly have the best record in the East.  That's amazing.

Mike

Love your posts Mike, but at what point does IT become a franchise player? He brings it night in and night out. He is a great face for the organization. He recruits for the organization. At some point he has to be the franchise, no?

IT is pretty much the franchise right now in the regular season but he's still got to prove he can be The Man on a team that gets out of the first round.  It's an unfair standard because people will make excuses for someone like Anthony Davis due to his reputation, but IT has got to perform and lead Boston to some playoff wins before he can be a build-a-team-around-him guy.

Mike

Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #346 on: February 16, 2017, 01:02:48 AM »

Offline colincb

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I really like Saric.  He looks like a young Larry Bird.

Dario Saric last 5 games 53 percent shooting + 37 percent three point shooting + 92 percent free throw shooting + 21 points + 1.2 steals + 2.2 assists + 7.4 rebounds

I think we should try trading Crowder and Bradley for Saric and Noel.  Then we can keep starting Smart and Jaylen.

I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face who saw Bird play, even Sixerphile LarBrd33. Here's a comparison of their rookie seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/mPkP4
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Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #347 on: February 16, 2017, 01:17:51 AM »

Offline mahcussmaht

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I really like Saric.  He looks like a young Larry Bird.

Dario Saric last 5 games 53 percent shooting + 37 percent three point shooting + 92 percent free throw shooting + 21 points + 1.2 steals + 2.2 assists + 7.4 rebounds

I think we should try trading Crowder and Bradley for Saric and Noel.  Then we can keep starting Smart and Jaylen.

I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face who saw Bird play, even Sixerphile LarBrd33. Here's a comparison of their rookie seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/mPkP4
Saric has been amazing recently.  He's still adjusting to United States basketball.  And I am not the first person on this blog to make the comparison.  Here's a thread of KG Living Legend comparing them:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=71056.0

Saric is a gifted scorer, passer and rebounder.  But he plays the same position as Ben Simmons so maybe you could get him and Nerlens Noel before the deadline for Bradley and Crowder?

Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #348 on: February 16, 2017, 01:33:59 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I really like Saric.  He looks like a young Larry Bird.

Dario Saric last 5 games 53 percent shooting + 37 percent three point shooting + 92 percent free throw shooting + 21 points + 1.2 steals + 2.2 assists + 7.4 rebounds

I think we should try trading Crowder and Bradley for Saric and Noel.  Then we can keep starting Smart and Jaylen.

I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face who saw Bird play, even Sixerphile LarBrd33. Here's a comparison of their rookie seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/mPkP4
Saric has been amazing recently.  He's still adjusting to United States basketball.  And I am not the first person on this blog to make the comparison.  Here's a thread of KG Living Legend comparing them:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=71056.0

Saric is a gifted scorer, passer and rebounder.  But he plays the same position as Ben Simmons so maybe you could get him and Nerlens Noel before the deadline for Bradley and Crowder?
That is a crazy overpay.

Saric could be a dirt poor Larry Bird. I don't like comparing guys who aren't generational talents (Embiid) to all-time greats.
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Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #349 on: February 16, 2017, 02:10:17 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I really like Saric.  He looks like a young Larry Bird.

Dario Saric last 5 games 53 percent shooting + 37 percent three point shooting + 92 percent free throw shooting + 21 points + 1.2 steals + 2.2 assists + 7.4 rebounds

I think we should try trading Crowder and Bradley for Saric and Noel.  Then we can keep starting Smart and Jaylen.

I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face who saw Bird play, even Sixerphile LarBrd33. Here's a comparison of their rookie seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/mPkP4
First of all, don't use my name on the street.  My name is my name. 

Second of all, the comparison is ridiculous.  Come on. 

But at risk of being called a "Dariophile" for playing devil's advocate, as I tend to do...

You linked to their rookie stats.  Totally different eras.  Bird was a basketball god.  Bird was actually older when he entered the league than Dario and got significant reps at the highest level of NCAA basketball - which was significantly more competitive in the 70s with top-level talent staying multiple years.   Saric is a 22 year old who is making the transition from another country to the NBA.   Pretty different circumstances. 

FWIW, Bird averaged 36mpg as a rookie and put up averages of 21.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.7 steals with .474/.406/.836 shooting.  The three pointer wasn't a big part of the game back then.  Interestingly enough, Bird actually shot under 30% from three his next 4 seasons in the league (27%, 21%, 28%, 24%).  I was surprised to find that   

I think the point was that Saric looks great recently.  Look at his Per-36 minute stats over the past 5 games:  26.6 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.6 steals with .526/.367/.923 shooting...

Bird Rookie Per-36: 21.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.7 steals with .474/.406/.836 shooting.
Saric Recent Per-36:  26.6 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.6 steals with .526/.367/.923 shooting

Yeah I guess if Saric had his minutes increase to 36 and could keep up this level of play for the rest of his career, the comparison would be less ridiculous.  But that's super unlikely to happen. 

That said, if Embiid plays less than 50 games, Saric looks like the Rookie of the Year frontrunner.  He's the only other rookie who is even averaging double digit points.  Winning a Rookie of the Year award might be the one thing Saric would legitimately have in common with the Legend. 

Saric is a really nice prospect, though.  Who knows how good he will actually be in a few years.  I said a couple months ago he was basically an equal-level prospect to Marcus Smart right now.  ESPN just did their "rising star" rankings and had Smart and Saric back-to-back at #34 and #35 - which didn't surprise me at all, though I suppose people here probably wondered if I was now ghost-writing ESPN articles.  And interestingly enough, Smart and Saric both seem to be breaking out at the same time, though Smart had two years of College basketball and a two year NBA head-start on Saric.  We'll see if either can keep up their recent hot play.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 02:30:40 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #350 on: February 16, 2017, 02:35:12 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Do turnovers count in stats like double doubles? If they do marcus smart has joined some very fine company with a 5 by 5
Last 5 games he is averaging 16/4/4 with 4 steals on 53% shooting.
Yeah I know he got some 4 by 5s, but if turnovers actually count he'll be joining the likes of hakeem in this club

Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #351 on: February 16, 2017, 06:48:17 AM »

Offline colincb

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I really like Saric.  He looks like a young Larry Bird.

Dario Saric last 5 games 53 percent shooting + 37 percent three point shooting + 92 percent free throw shooting + 21 points + 1.2 steals + 2.2 assists + 7.4 rebounds

I think we should try trading Crowder and Bradley for Saric and Noel.  Then we can keep starting Smart and Jaylen.

I can't imagine anyone saying this with a straight face who saw Bird play, even Sixerphile LarBrd33. Here's a comparison of their rookie seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/mPkP4
First of all, don't use my name on the street.  My name is my name. 

Second of all, the comparison is ridiculous.  Come on. 

But at risk of being called a "Dariophile" for playing devil's advocate, as I tend to do...

You linked to their rookie stats.  Totally different eras.  Bird was a basketball god.  Bird was actually older when he entered the league than Dario and got significant reps at the highest level of NCAA basketball - which was significantly more competitive in the 70s with top-level talent staying multiple years.   Saric is a 22 year old who is making the transition from another country to the NBA.   Pretty different circumstances. 

FWIW, Bird averaged 36mpg as a rookie and put up averages of 21.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.7 steals with .474/.406/.836 shooting.  The three pointer wasn't a big part of the game back then.  Interestingly enough, Bird actually shot under 30% from three his next 4 seasons in the league (27%, 21%, 28%, 24%).  I was surprised to find that   

I think the point was that Saric looks great recently.  Look at his Per-36 minute stats over the past 5 games:  26.6 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.6 steals with .526/.367/.923 shooting...

Bird Rookie Per-36: 21.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.7 steals with .474/.406/.836 shooting.
Saric Recent Per-36:  26.6 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.6 steals with .526/.367/.923 shooting

Yeah I guess if Saric had his minutes increase to 36 and could keep up this level of play for the rest of his career, the comparison would be less ridiculous.  But that's super unlikely to happen. 

That said, if Embiid plays less than 50 games, Saric looks like the Rookie of the Year frontrunner.  He's the only other rookie who is even averaging double digit points.  Winning a Rookie of the Year award might be the one thing Saric would legitimately have in common with the Legend. 

Saric is a really nice prospect, though.  Who knows how good he will actually be in a few years.  I said a couple months ago he was basically an equal-level prospect to Marcus Smart right now.  ESPN just did their "rising star" rankings and had Smart and Saric back-to-back at #34 and #35 - which didn't surprise me at all, though I suppose people here probably wondered if I was now ghost-writing ESPN articles.  And interestingly enough, Smart and Saric both seem to be breaking out at the same time, though Smart had two years of College basketball and a two year NBA head-start on Saric.  We'll see if either can keep up their recent hot play.

Saric is a nice prospect and in the other-than-Embiid race for the prestigious NBA runner-up ROY award is near the top:



Nonetheless, 5 games isn't a good sample to make an outrageous comparison. Just for the record:

- Defense was much more physical when Bird debuted.
- Bird was only 4 months older than Saric when he debuted.
- Bird played 3 years at Indiana State and took them to their first NCAA tournament where they had the deepest run ever as a 1st-time participant.
- Saric probably played against better competition as a 5 year Euro-pro than Bird did in the 1970sí MVC.
- Birdís rookie stats are superior or vastly superior in every regard to Saric (e.g., Win Shares 11.2 vs 0.4), especially on the defensive end.
- Bird led the Cs into the EC Finals and the largest turnaround (+32 wins) of the pre-salary cap era (and 5th best overall). If you want to ignore Embiid's contribution, you could make a strong case that Saric has led the Sixers to the 4th worst record in the NBA.

Iím ashamed to be coming off as a bully given the pummeling Iím dishing out, but I have also PMíd the moderators asking them to strip you of your username since as a namesake to a basketball G_d you have soiled yourself forever diminished your reputation. DarSar9 is available, however, and what better way to show your love other than that FatHead(TM) decal of Saric you attached to your bedroom ceiling?
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Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #352 on: February 16, 2017, 07:17:24 AM »

Offline moiso

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Saric looks really good, but he looks a lot more like a tougher Toni Kukoc than Larry Bird.

Re: Sixers (21-34) at Celtics (36-19) Game #56 2/15/17
« Reply #353 on: February 16, 2017, 08:01:49 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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I really like Saric.  He looks like a young Larry Bird.

Dario Saric last 5 games 53 percent shooting + 37 percent three point shooting + 92 percent free throw shooting + 21 points + 1.2 steals + 2.2 assists + 7.4 rebounds

Hey mahcussmaht, cough LarBrd33, you should probably do a better job in changing up your writing style so people don't catch on. Nice try, though. Some of "mahcussmaht's" posts, and coincidentally they usually speak about....yes, the Sixers at a 99.9% clip!




don't be ignorant.  Kat and Davis can't hold Embiid's jock.  People who compare them don't watch basketball.  Kat is a terrible defender.   Embiid is the evolutionary Bill Russell on the defensive end.  There is no comparison.  Philadelphia will be a threat to win the East next year whether or not they add Butler.  Embiid is a hall of fame talent that will win multiple championships.  He will also star in many movies and father many exceptional children.

don't be ignorant.  Would you trade the whole team for young LeBron, young Jordan, young Bird or young Duncan?  I sure as hell would.  And I would gladly trade our entire team and all draft picks for Embiid.  He is superhuman.  He is guaranteed to win at minimum two championships.

Tanking and showcasing are accepted in the league, but generally frowned on.  The main reason Embiid has been held out is because they are showcasing Okafor, Noel and Saric before Simmons comes back.  Okafor had 20 points on Wednesday.  Noel had 19 yesterday.  Saric has looked like young Larry Bird lately as he adapts to USA style baskeball.  The trade deadline is coming up and Philadelphia has been trying to trade for Jimmy Butler, because they think he would be a great 3rd option behind Simmons and Embiid.  They want to move their pick and Okafor.  They want to keep the Lakers pick and Saric.

The secondary reasons for holding out Embiid are improving the pick before the trade deadline and giving Embiid some rest until after the allstar break.  A meniscus tear that doesn't require surgery is one of the most common injuries in sports.  With R.I.C.E you can be healed in a couple weeks.  Embiid had the injury a couple weeks ago.  He is either already healed or almost healed. That's why he is listed as Day-To-Day.  He played after the injury and dumped 35 points on the Rockets.  It's a cupcake injury.  He and Simmons will play after allstar break and after they make some trades.   I'd trade our entire team for Embiid.

They were just calling it a bone bruise, because they knew how much fans and the media would freak out when they saw the word "tear".   It's not a big deal.   The problem is that Embiid was at the Meek Mills concert on Friday and jumped on stage dancing like a maniac with his shirt off.  Millions saw it on twitter.  This sent the wrong message, because it made it obvious they were just holding him out to tank and showcase Okafor, Noel and Saric.  The front office was getting heat for it.  They had to come out and clarify that it's a meniscus tear.  That will justify keeping him out until the trade deadline passes.


More on Embiid-

They have handled him like a Fabergť egg this season and for good reason.  I'd give up our entire team to get that guy.  He is dominant.  He put up 32/7/4/2/3 days after his bone bruise so it's not like he can't play right now.  They will hold him out until after the all-star break or trade deadline.  This gives them a chance to showcase Okafor and Noel, but also tank their pick.   They were trying to trade Okafor + the best of the 76er/Kings pick for Jimmy Butler.  The Bulls like Okafor.  Philadelphia sees Jimmy Butler as a great 3rd option behind Embiid and Simmons.  Philadelphia started winning games and made Chicago nervous.  The concern is that they will stop sand bagging it with Embiid, unleash Simmons, and with Butler on board they will play themselves into the playoffs and ruin the pick.

On the ESPN rising stars rankings, which his alternative account (LarBrd33) often cites-

UGH.  It's pretty upsetting that none of our young players make the top 30. 

It has Jaylen Brown and Jahlil Okafor basically even in the 41 and 43.

It has Marcus Smart and Dario Saric basically even at 33 and 34.

And it has Nerlens Noel ranked ahead of all our young guys at #31. 

That makes me angry.  This was obviously written by a Sixers fan.  Either that or a Lakers fan.  It has Jordan Clarkson ranked ahead of all our guys at #32 and I don't see Brandon Ingram, Julius Randle or D'Angelo Russell on the list yet, so I'm guessing they will all be in the top 30 above all our young players.   

This is a Celtic hit job.


Counter "injuries" with serious character concerns and unrestricted free agency in 16 months and I have to agree with KG Living Legend that Embiid has more trade value than Cousins right now.   If the Philadelphia 76ers asked for Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and both Brooklyn picks for Embiid right now, Boston says yes.  Franchise player.

The starting point for purchasing Cousins seems to be Amir Johnson, Marcus Smart, the 2017 Brooklyn 1st, and two protected 1st rounders.  Guys say we would need to also include one of Jaylen Brown, Avery Bradley Jae Crowder or the 2018 Brooklyn 1st.  That's if the Kings even decide to give up and move on from Cousins. 

You say Embiid would cost more than that?  I agree with you.   And that's also why I think you can call the process a success.  The purpose was to add a franchise player.  They succeeded in adding one.  We are still dreaming of trading for our own.  I'd trade most of the team for Embiid.

The Philadelphia 76ers are like an internet company that isn't turning a profit yet, but have a 40 billion dollar valuation.  Maybe it doesn't live up to the promise (Twitter's valuation dropped from 40 billion in 2013 to 10 billion this year as they failed to monetize), but you have to acknowledge that right now they are sitting on a fortune and that fortune is the direct result of the process.