Author Topic: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties  (Read 1026 times)

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Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« on: February 07, 2017, 04:08:17 PM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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One thing that I have taken away from the Patriots latest Super Bowl victory (other then adulation) is sacrifice.

Tom Brady had essentially been the most underpaid player in the NFL for almost his entire career. In 2013, Brady restructured his contract, which had two years remaining, the deal added an extension with “out years”—2015, 2016 and 2017—at salaries of $7, $8, and $9 million, respectively. As anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows, these are startlingly low numbers for a quarterback of Brady’s caliber.

Brady’s 2015 compensation of $8 million is roughly 1) a quarter of Wilson, Eli Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger and Newton ($31 million and above); 2) a half of Peyton Manning, Jay Cutler and top rookies Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota ($15 million or above); and 3) $11 million less than longtime peer Drew Brees ($19 million).

Brady understands that the Patriots aren't using his pay cut to make a profit, they use it to surround him with better players, players themselves who take pay cuts to play for titles. Julian Edelman one of the best slot men in the NFL is only making $4.2 million on average per year compared to someone like Jordy Nelson who averages 9.7 million.

Same goes for the San Antonio Spurs and Tim Duncan. In 2012-2013, Duncan went from earning 17 million to 9.6 million in order to keep his core and add to the base squad, and his sacrifice payed off making finals in 2013 and winning it all in 2014.

Even though I am a huge fan of Lebron, I think this is something he hasn't grasped yet as he seems to be driven by titles but at the same time doesn't want to make any short term salary sacrifice something that may be telling against GSW this season and in the coming future.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 05:57:16 PM by Redz »

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 04:24:44 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Hopefully Isaiah is taking notice.

Re: Lessions that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 04:28:52 PM »

Offline CelticD

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Teams like GSW can exist because of Curry's injury early in his career, that currently has him severly underpaid as well.

Re: Lessions that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2017, 05:37:48 PM »

Offline saltlover

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For what it's worth, Brady's cap hit was $14 million in 2015, not $8 million (which is how things should be measured.) Because of the suspension, this year's contract was restructured so that his salary was only $1 million with an additional $13 million guaranteed bonus, as only his pro-rated psalary would be forfeited during the suspension.

It was still below market rate, but not by 50% as you imply.

There's also an argument that when a player of Brady's magnitude voluntarily takes less, despite playing at a peak level, that he holds down salaries for the rest of the players.  I don't completely buy it, because most leagues have a salary floor of some sort that helps prevent this, but at the margins there's probably some truth.

Meanwhile, Isaiah is producing at a near MVP level at about a quarter of his market value.  If the Celtics can't put together a championship team with this advantage, it's not on him to take less next time they talk contract.

EDIT: Also, Winston had a cap hit of $5.7 million last year, less than half of Brady.  I'm not quite sure where you're getting your numbers from.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 05:45:21 PM by saltlover »

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 06:21:46 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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I love Belichick's mantra of "Do your job".  If every body buys in, you've got a team.

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 12:41:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm confused by this post, where James is concerned as he, Wade, and Bosh all took less than the max to sign in Miami and it led to two titles and two runners up.  Sure since he has been back in Cleveland he has signed maximum deals, but those contracts have not really affected the Cavs much at all.  They've still re-signed Irving and Love for max dollars, they've still paid (or overpaid) other free agents i.e. Smith, Shumpert, Thompson, etc., they've still made trades adding salary for draft considerations i.e. Mozgov, Smith/Shumpert, Frye, Korver, etc., and they've still added free agents Williams, Williams, Bogut, etc. 
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Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 12:53:46 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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How many of these guys played as many years as Brady?



How many are married to someone who makes more money?


This is a business.  I have no issue with players making business decision because you know the teams will do the same.

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Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 01:21:19 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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I'm confused by this post, where James is concerned as he, Wade, and Bosh all took less than the max to sign in Miami and it led to two titles and two runners up.  Sure since he has been back in Cleveland he has signed maximum deals, but those contracts have not really affected the Cavs much at all.  They've still re-signed Irving and Love for max dollars, they've still paid (or overpaid) other free agents i.e. Smith, Shumpert, Thompson, etc., they've still made trades adding salary for draft considerations i.e. Mozgov, Smith/Shumpert, Frye, Korver, etc., and they've still added free agents Williams, Williams, Bogut, etc.

The Cav's have had a couple of good years, they're hardly a dynasty.

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 01:25:04 PM »

Offline incoherent

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The two best dynasties in modern era of salary cap.. plain and simple... had their stars take pay-cuts. 

Spin it however you want, but the OP is right. 

This however doesnt make me want IT to take a paycut, it actually solidifies in my mind that we need to let IT walk after next year. Dynasties arent started with 29 year old PGs.

Our dynasty is going to start with Smart, Jaylen, 2017 pick, 2018 pick.  We know what we have with Smart.. and we all can see what Jaylen could become.

Jaylen is in the perfect scenario for a rookie... truly, for long term growth and success, being on a winning team as a rookie and contributing is amazing.  He's going to get playoff minutes his rookie season.  Not a lot of top 3 picks get to experience that.

We got a long ways to go to get to what Danny keeps telling us what he really wants.. to create long term sustainable success.  Danny already did the "trade for aging stars and vets and win a championship" route.  He got 1 out of 6 years because his players were too old about 3 years into the run.  Thats nothing, and I dont blame Danny for wanting to go the Patriots and Spurs route.

Hopefully Jaylen is so good that he demands max but everyone else will take small cuts to play with him, then in his later years he can take cuts to bring in the prime-allstars under max.  (Best case long term scenario)
 

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 01:38:41 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Oh, and they are still paying Duncan for the next two seasons. 


Plus there is this.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/07/11/tim-duncan-retires-as-nbas-4th-highest-paid-player.html

Quote
Tim Duncan Retires As NBA's 4th-Highest Paid Player

Knicks: Irving, Drummond, Marcus Morris, S. Muhammad, C. Lee, Sullinger, Hield, M. Chriss , V. Carter, T. Zeller, N. Cole, T. Prince, Livio Jean-Charles, Tyler Ulis, N. Collison

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 01:59:14 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm confused by this post, where James is concerned as he, Wade, and Bosh all took less than the max to sign in Miami and it led to two titles and two runners up.  Sure since he has been back in Cleveland he has signed maximum deals, but those contracts have not really affected the Cavs much at all.  They've still re-signed Irving and Love for max dollars, they've still paid (or overpaid) other free agents i.e. Smith, Shumpert, Thompson, etc., they've still made trades adding salary for draft considerations i.e. Mozgov, Smith/Shumpert, Frye, Korver, etc., and they've still added free agents Williams, Williams, Bogut, etc.

The Cav's have had a couple of good years, they're hardly a dynasty.
I didn't bring up James, the OP did.  I was just commenting I didn't buy that criticism of James because he actually took less in Miami and his contract hasn't affected the Cavs at all. 
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Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 02:27:41 PM »

Offline furball

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I hate when people give Brady credit for taking less money.  His wife makes more money than anyone in sports. 

Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 02:28:30 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I'm confused by this post, where James is concerned as he, Wade, and Bosh all took less than the max to sign in Miami and it led to two titles and two runners up.  Sure since he has been back in Cleveland he has signed maximum deals, but those contracts have not really affected the Cavs much at all.  They've still re-signed Irving and Love for max dollars, they've still paid (or overpaid) other free agents i.e. Smith, Shumpert, Thompson, etc., they've still made trades adding salary for draft considerations i.e. Mozgov, Smith/Shumpert, Frye, Korver, etc., and they've still added free agents Williams, Williams, Bogut, etc.

The Cav's have had a couple of good years, they're hardly a dynasty.
I didn't bring up James, the OP did.  I was just commenting I didn't buy that criticism of James because he actually took less in Miami and his contract hasn't affected the Cavs at all.

I think the thing with James is twofold. First, he keeps signing [essentially] one year contracts giving him the opportunity to bolt if he wants. And second, and most importantly, these one year contracts allow him to take advantage of the rising salary cap each season. We all know he is probably not leaving, but it would have been more 'proper' to just sign a multi-year contract when he re-joined the team.

It just gives off the wrong impression; and he is somebody who REALLY cares about his reputation. Taking a few million less wouldn't change much for him personally - it's not like he doesn't make oodles of money in endorsements.


Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 02:52:42 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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I hate when people give Brady credit for taking less money.  His wife makes more money than anyone in sports.

How much does Duncan s wife make? Not everyone is like Kobe or Lebron and expects all the money and all the talent around them.
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Re: Lessons that should be learned from Sports Dynasties
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 02:53:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm confused by this post, where James is concerned as he, Wade, and Bosh all took less than the max to sign in Miami and it led to two titles and two runners up.  Sure since he has been back in Cleveland he has signed maximum deals, but those contracts have not really affected the Cavs much at all.  They've still re-signed Irving and Love for max dollars, they've still paid (or overpaid) other free agents i.e. Smith, Shumpert, Thompson, etc., they've still made trades adding salary for draft considerations i.e. Mozgov, Smith/Shumpert, Frye, Korver, etc., and they've still added free agents Williams, Williams, Bogut, etc.

The Cav's have had a couple of good years, they're hardly a dynasty.
I didn't bring up James, the OP did.  I was just commenting I didn't buy that criticism of James because he actually took less in Miami and his contract hasn't affected the Cavs at all.

I think the thing with James is twofold. First, he keeps signing [essentially] one year contracts giving him the opportunity to bolt if he wants. And second, and most importantly, these one year contracts allow him to take advantage of the rising salary cap each season. We all know he is probably not leaving, but it would have been more 'proper' to just sign a multi-year contract when he re-joined the team.

It just gives off the wrong impression; and he is somebody who REALLY cares about his reputation. Taking a few million less wouldn't change much for him personally - it's not like he doesn't make oodles of money in endorsements.
James signed essentially two 1 year contracts, but signed a 3 year contract under early Bird rights this past summer (he can opt out of the last year).  Of course, he signed those contracts more to keep the pressure on the Cavs than anything else.
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