Author Topic: Fultz vs Ball  (Read 6829 times)

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Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2017, 02:15:29 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.
stupid ways to make decsions 101
lol

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2017, 02:56:11 PM »

Offline rochrist

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I agree Fultz is more of a traditional talent. With maturity and time his ceiling is somewhere between Westbrook, and Harden, and that is not to shabby. He doesn't seems to be a natural leader.

Besides being an offensive and defensive weapon, Ball looks to be a special player that can make the players around him better. He already plays with NBA pace, which is unusual. He has floor general write all over him.


He has bust written all over him.
How so? I mean it. Please provide reasoning, stats, analyses, and support for this statement. Without such support you post doesn't rise above the level of a shallow opinion. Please post in ways and at a level that make this a better thread.

A number of posters have provided a boat load of support. You need to refute all that in your response if you want people to value your thinking.

I think he'll struggle badly on defense. He isn't quick enough to defend the smaller guys, or strong enough to defend the bigger guys. He's not explosive enough to get to the rim. He has zero mid-range game, and his shot is going to get sent back in his face quite a bit.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2017, 11:38:54 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.
I'm on the Cameron Oliver bandwagon should be there in the second round.

Please, god, no.  He's another guy with an inconsistent motor and scouts also question his "bbiq," which I really hate as a term bc it looks way too much like bbq, lol.  Om nom nom ;D.
If this was a junior or senior I'd worry but given his history on battling back from injury and his age I have to disagree with those knocks.Do hope gms think that and he falls to us at 53. Team could then use 37 on Alec Peters to fill a KO roll.

Even before the stress fracture, Peters was atrocious, defensively.  Pass.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2017, 12:17:24 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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I agree Fultz is more of a traditional talent. With maturity and time his ceiling is somewhere between Westbrook, and Harden, and that is not to shabby. He doesn't seems to be a natural leader.

Besides being an offensive and defensive weapon, Ball looks to be a special player that can make the players around him better. He already plays with NBA pace, which is unusual. He has floor general write all over him.


He has bust written all over him.
How so? I mean it. Please provide reasoning, stats, analyses, and support for this statement. Without such support you post doesn't rise above the level of a shallow opinion. Please post in ways and at a level that make this a better thread.

A number of posters have provided a boat load of support. You need to refute all that in your response if you want people to value your thinking.

I think he'll struggle badly on defense. He isn't quick enough to defend the smaller guys, or strong enough to defend the bigger guys. He's not explosive enough to get to the rim. He has zero mid-range game, and his shot is going to get sent back in his face quite a bit.
I agree that ball has bust potential because he doesn't have very much potential to score.  He's not explosive at all and will have lots of trouble creating his own shot.  The only thing I don't agree with here is the idea of getting his shot blocked a lot.  He'll figure that part out, even if it means shooting it less.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2017, 08:41:13 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.
I'm on the Cameron Oliver bandwagon should be there in the second round.

Please, god, no.  He's another guy with an inconsistent motor and scouts also question his "bbiq," which I really hate as a term bc it looks way too much like bbq, lol.  Om nom nom ;D.
If this was a junior or senior I'd worry but given his history on battling back from injury and his age I have to disagree with those knocks.Do hope gms think that and he falls to us at 53. Team could then use 37 on Alec Peters to fill a KO roll.

Even before the stress fracture, Peters was atrocious, defensively.  Pass.
Lol what do you expect for guys in the 2nd round. They have flaws that's why they are second rounders.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2017, 09:15:06 AM »

Offline Bostonborn62

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If Ball isn't wide open, he ain't getting that ridiculous shot off in the NBA, period. Any strong defensive minded Guard will shut his offence down. In my book he's over rated.I can't wait to see AB or MS over playing him,forcing him to his weak side where he couldn't get his shot off in college never mind trying to shoot in the NBA where the defenders are bigger/faster/stronger.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2017, 10:02:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Ball looks like the great college player than will struggle in the pros ala the Jimmer or Morrison to me.   That bringing the ball across his body on his shot and his dad are huge negatives.  Also, most of his shots at the rim were assisted.  This is an interesting read:


Quote
There just wasn’t a lot in Ball’s dribble-drive game at the college level to expect him to be able to thrive as a self-creator at the next level, and it’s understandable why he didn’t get to the rim at high volume when you watch his tape.

Some of that can be attributed to the Bruins’ offensive scheme, which relies on a lot of cutting, screening and off-ball movement to generate shots instead of straight pick-and-roll or isolation basketball. But context goes both ways. Ball doesn’t have the spacing excuse to fall back on like Fultz and Dennis Smith, as he was surrounded with one of the most pristine floor spacing situations in college basketball. He absolutely made players like T.J. Leaf better shooters, but having three teammates shoot over 41 percent from 3 and one of the best mid-range shooting centers in college basketball had a reciprocal effect in aiding Ball’s ability to operate with the ball as well. The driving lanes were there to exploit, and Ball didn’t exploit them at even average volume.

Does this mean that Ball is a bad prospect? Of course not. It’s one element of his game. But we’re talking lead guard translation here, and when you combine stats like this with [dang]ing tape that includes a reluctance to attack bigs on switches and the inability to shake college level perimeter athletes consistently with a basic handle, it doesn’t bode well for his capacity to handle modern NBA lead guard obligations as a driver.

https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/

The kid can move without the ball and slash with the best of them, creating his own shot not so much.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2017, 10:23:43 AM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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Ball is the style of PG that doesn't win championships anymore except for on one team: the Spurs.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2017, 10:25:32 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Ball is the style of PG that doesn't win championships anymore except for on one team: the Spurs.
Pop and LaVar would not be very good friends I can't imagine.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2017, 06:08:39 PM »

Offline rochrist

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.

Trade the pick for the Human Dumpster Fire who couldn't make the Pelicans better even when paired with one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2017, 06:19:08 PM »

Offline gouki88

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.

Trade the pick for the Human Dumpster Fire who couldn't make the Pelicans better even when paired with one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.
Hardly a fair representation of what happened.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2017, 06:27:01 PM »

Offline rochrist

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.

Trade the pick for the Human Dumpster Fire who couldn't make the Pelicans better even when paired with one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.
Hardly a fair representation of what happened.

How is it unfair?

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2017, 06:34:39 PM »

Offline gouki88

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.

Trade the pick for the Human Dumpster Fire who couldn't make the Pelicans better even when paired with one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.
Hardly a fair representation of what happened.

How is it unfair?
DMC only played 17 games for a team with one of the worst rosters in the league. Behind AD and Holiday their best player is probably Solomon Hill? Maybe Tim Frazier? He hardly had enough time to make any real positive impact on such a different team.

NOP would be terrible regardless of who was paired with AD for a 17 game stretch joining mid season.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2017, 06:35:48 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.

Trade the pick for the Human Dumpster Fire who couldn't make the Pelicans better even when paired with one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.
Hardly a fair representation of what happened.

How is it unfair?
DMC only played 17 games for a team with one of the worst rosters in the league. Behind AD and Holiday their best player is probably Solomon Hill? Maybe Tim Frazier? He hardly had enough time to make any real positive impact on such a different team.

NOP would be terrible regardless of who was paired with AD for a 17 game stretch joining mid season.
If cousins was truly so great, they wouldn't have lost any games with anthony davis as his sidekick. Put it with Davis. They wont lose that many games that cousins lost

Re: Fultz vs Ball
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2017, 06:47:45 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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At some point we have to get some bigs and I see no bigs in this draft. We're getting destroyed on the boards already.

Resign AB
Trade the pick for Cousins and let's get on with it.

We still have the 2018 pick.

I'm sick of drafting, trading for and developing guards...enough already.

Trade the pick for the Human Dumpster Fire who couldn't make the Pelicans better even when paired with one of the top 3 or 4 players in the league.
Hardly a fair representation of what happened.

How is it unfair?
DMC only played 17 games for a team with one of the worst rosters in the league. Behind AD and Holiday their best player is probably Solomon Hill? Maybe Tim Frazier? He hardly had enough time to make any real positive impact on such a different team.

NOP would be terrible regardless of who was paired with AD for a 17 game stretch joining mid season.
they're  not trading him after 17 games
I trust Danny Ainge