Author Topic: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread  (Read 113608 times)

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Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #315 on: June 08, 2018, 03:59:32 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Is the question, how Doncic has outperformed Bird at the same age?

He hasn't.  Also, in Bird's time the US amateurs beat the Europeans almost every year save one.  Those NCAA players kicked behind in the Olympics.  The Bird in his prime or coming out of college would have scored 30 points a game, maybe more, in Europe this year.  If we had a time machine he would make you eat your words.   He also was way better rebounder.

For those who think he will be equal to Bird, I feel bad for you.   You're going to get disappointed badly.

Well, yeah, he actually has outperformed Bird whether you want to admit or not. Unless you think 3rd team all-state in Indiana is on par with being the MVP of Euroleague.

In Bird' time the US amateurs....Yes, but Bird wasn't on that team.

The Bird in his prime or coming out of college...Obviously. I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.

The point is that Doncic at 19 is better than Bird WAS at 19.

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #316 on: June 08, 2018, 04:03:34 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Dončić now, at age of 18, is head and shoulders above what Larry was then.

This is pretty comical.   I doubt you seen much or early Larry Bird.   If I had a dollar for every guy you hyped up from the Euroleague that busted, I bet I could have a good night on the town with a nicedinner, a movie and a taxi for two.

There is not much tape of Bird in high school

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu8YYBqBHlg

that I am aware of, but here is some in college in 77

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78zmV209ews

I know he is a few years older  in 77 game but Bird was way better .
I'm late to this thread but I just have to comment on this.  Doncic ahead of Bird?  LOLOLOL!  Somebody clearly hasn't seen young Larry.  Bird was better than Doncic in every conceivable way.  Quicker, smarter, better shooter, much better defender, higher IQ (and Doncic is quite good), better passer (Doncic also quite good),better hands, better rebounder, better size, better without the ball, much better back-to-the basket game, vastly underrated athlete.  I suppose you could say their ballhandling is on par, adjusted for era and Doncic has a nice in-between game, but still not as good as Larry.

Bird put up 32.8/13.3/4.4 with 2.8 steals and 1 block in his Freshman year!  Bird was a 10/10, generational talent, surefire HOF'er.  Doncic will be a 3rd-fiddle role player.
Larry was a 21 year old freshman.
And?  Doncic is a 4th year pro who didn't improve between his 3rd and 4th year (didn't play much in yr 1).  The only real change from yr 3 to 4 was increased minutes and usage rate and worse 3pt shooting.  He's already a very polished player for his age, not some raw prospect in need of development.  He's not going to magically start pulling down 13 RPG with 3 steals.  He's not getting any better athletically.  That's why his ceiling isn't nearly as high as people think.

Again, I think Doncic will be a fine 14/5/5 type of rotation player, but Larry Bird?  Gimme a break.  100 times more likely to be Bojan Bogdanovic.

Of course Doncic is better at the same age, Bird wasn't even playing basketball and was picking up trash. This doesn't mean that Doncic WILL be better, but clearly Doncic, MVP of Euroleague at 19, has had the better first 19 years of basketball.
Correct.  Every NCAA, NBA or Euroleague player under 21 years old has outperformed Bird to this point in their life.  I'm glad this is settled.

Not necessarily, but Doncic clearly has.

How?

Is the question, how Doncic has outperformed Bird at the same age? If so, one word - logic. Unless you think those 10 Indiana players that made the 1st and 2nd team All-State, ahead of Bird, were also better than Doncic is now.

So what are you insinuating exactly?

That Doncic will have a comparable or better career than Bird? At the end of the day, who really cares what a prospect has done before they get to the NBA? It's about how well they'll do when they get to the NBA. I think Doncic will be a special player, but I'm more concerned about his lack of FTA, and his explosiveness/athleticism. People say Bird wasn't athletic, but he was ambidextrous, highly intelligent, and had great height along with uncanny ability to break down defenses. Doncic seems like the poster boy, but if you're suggesting Doncic will have a career anywhere close to Bird, I'm going to out on a limb here and say you're dead wrong.
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Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #317 on: June 08, 2018, 04:04:44 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Pass on this guy..think he will be a dud
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Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #318 on: June 08, 2018, 04:10:42 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Dončić now, at age of 18, is head and shoulders above what Larry was then.

This is pretty comical.   I doubt you seen much or early Larry Bird.   If I had a dollar for every guy you hyped up from the Euroleague that busted, I bet I could have a good night on the town with a nicedinner, a movie and a taxi for two.

There is not much tape of Bird in high school

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu8YYBqBHlg

that I am aware of, but here is some in college in 77

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78zmV209ews

I know he is a few years older  in 77 game but Bird was way better .
I'm late to this thread but I just have to comment on this.  Doncic ahead of Bird?  LOLOLOL!  Somebody clearly hasn't seen young Larry.  Bird was better than Doncic in every conceivable way.  Quicker, smarter, better shooter, much better defender, higher IQ (and Doncic is quite good), better passer (Doncic also quite good),better hands, better rebounder, better size, better without the ball, much better back-to-the basket game, vastly underrated athlete.  I suppose you could say their ballhandling is on par, adjusted for era and Doncic has a nice in-between game, but still not as good as Larry.

Bird put up 32.8/13.3/4.4 with 2.8 steals and 1 block in his Freshman year!  Bird was a 10/10, generational talent, surefire HOF'er.  Doncic will be a 3rd-fiddle role player.
Larry was a 21 year old freshman.
And?  Doncic is a 4th year pro who didn't improve between his 3rd and 4th year (didn't play much in yr 1).  The only real change from yr 3 to 4 was increased minutes and usage rate and worse 3pt shooting.  He's already a very polished player for his age, not some raw prospect in need of development.  He's not going to magically start pulling down 13 RPG with 3 steals.  He's not getting any better athletically.  That's why his ceiling isn't nearly as high as people think.

Again, I think Doncic will be a fine 14/5/5 type of rotation player, but Larry Bird?  Gimme a break.  100 times more likely to be Bojan Bogdanovic.

Of course Doncic is better at the same age, Bird wasn't even playing basketball and was picking up trash. This doesn't mean that Doncic WILL be better, but clearly Doncic, MVP of Euroleague at 19, has had the better first 19 years of basketball.
Correct.  Every NCAA, NBA or Euroleague player under 21 years old has outperformed Bird to this point in their life.  I'm glad this is settled.

Not necessarily, but Doncic clearly has.

How?

Is the question, how Doncic has outperformed Bird at the same age? If so, one word - logic. Unless you think those 10 Indiana players that made the 1st and 2nd team All-State, ahead of Bird, were also better than Doncic is now.

So what are you insinuating exactly?

That Doncic will have a comparable or better career than Bird?

Never said that. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the exact opposite.

If you follow the thread you'll see that the debated shifted to Donic vs Bird at the same age. That answer to that question is obvious.

Re: Luka Doncic Awareness Thread
« Reply #319 on: June 08, 2018, 04:18:45 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Dončić now, at age of 18, is head and shoulders above what Larry was then.

This is pretty comical.   I doubt you seen much or early Larry Bird.   If I had a dollar for every guy you hyped up from the Euroleague that busted, I bet I could have a good night on the town with a nicedinner, a movie and a taxi for two.

There is not much tape of Bird in high school

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu8YYBqBHlg

that I am aware of, but here is some in college in 77

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78zmV209ews

I know he is a few years older  in 77 game but Bird was way better .
I'm late to this thread but I just have to comment on this.  Doncic ahead of Bird?  LOLOLOL!  Somebody clearly hasn't seen young Larry.  Bird was better than Doncic in every conceivable way.  Quicker, smarter, better shooter, much better defender, higher IQ (and Doncic is quite good), better passer (Doncic also quite good),better hands, better rebounder, better size, better without the ball, much better back-to-the basket game, vastly underrated athlete.  I suppose you could say their ballhandling is on par, adjusted for era and Doncic has a nice in-between game, but still not as good as Larry.

Bird put up 32.8/13.3/4.4 with 2.8 steals and 1 block in his Freshman year!  Bird was a 10/10, generational talent, surefire HOF'er.  Doncic will be a 3rd-fiddle role player.
Larry was a 21 year old freshman.
And?  Doncic is a 4th year pro who didn't improve between his 3rd and 4th year (didn't play much in yr 1).  The only real change from yr 3 to 4 was increased minutes and usage rate and worse 3pt shooting.  He's already a very polished player for his age, not some raw prospect in need of development.  He's not going to magically start pulling down 13 RPG with 3 steals.  He's not getting any better athletically.  That's why his ceiling isn't nearly as high as people think.

Again, I think Doncic will be a fine 14/5/5 type of rotation player, but Larry Bird?  Gimme a break.  100 times more likely to be Bojan Bogdanovic.

Of course Doncic is better at the same age, Bird wasn't even playing basketball and was picking up trash. This doesn't mean that Doncic WILL be better, but clearly Doncic, MVP of Euroleague at 19, has had the better first 19 years of basketball.
Correct.  Every NCAA, NBA or Euroleague player under 21 years old has outperformed Bird to this point in their life.  I'm glad this is settled.

Not necessarily, but Doncic clearly has.

How?

Is the question, how Doncic has outperformed Bird at the same age? If so, one word - logic. Unless you think those 10 Indiana players that made the 1st and 2nd team All-State, ahead of Bird, were also better than Doncic is now.

So what are you insinuating exactly?

That Doncic will have a comparable or better career than Bird?

Never said that. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the exact opposite.

If you follow the thread you'll see that the debated shifted to Donic vs Bird at the same age. That answer to that question is obvious.

Ah, I see. Forgive me, I generally avoid reading lengthy draft threads, because sometimes users tend to over-hype prospects they like more instead of looking at it from both sides.
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Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #320 on: June 11, 2018, 01:47:22 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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ESPN reported a couple hours ago. Not a huge surprise, although there was some risk with the SAC/ATL back to back picks at 2/3 possibly deterring him. Perhaps Doncics camp has gotten wind that neither club will draft him, or maybe they will pull the Ayton move and not work out for SAC/ATL?

Just speculation....with Bagley/Jackson/Bamba and even Trae Young's stock all seeming to rise, maybe Doncic falls to Dallas at 5? Orlando at 6?

This could be interesting for the Celtics if we are seriously considering moving in to that top 5-7 range. If Young were selected in the top 5, it guarantees that one of the above mentioned players (Ayton obviously going #1) will likely be available at 5-7, or Porter/Carter is sitting there at 7/8, where the outgoing assets will decrease on our end.

Does anyone see Sacramento taking Doncic over Bagley at #2? I feel like the NBADraft.net is a very solid mock at the moment, considering the current stocks of each prospect. Doncic goes to Dallas at #5

Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #321 on: June 11, 2018, 01:53:39 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Any team that passes on Doncic will regret it.  That’s been my refrain for the last 18 months, and I’m not changing my tune.

Also, no surprise that he declared.  Just needed to wait until his pro season was as done as it could be.  His league’s finals begin Wednesday, but the deadline is today, so there you have it.

If the finals goes a full 5 games, he would be drafted before Game 5 is played (a week from Friday).

Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #322 on: June 11, 2018, 02:10:32 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Imagine if our Lakers pick conveyed. Man, we'd be having a summer  8)


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Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #323 on: June 11, 2018, 02:13:34 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Agreed. I feel like SAC will just draft him regardless and either force another team to trade assets, or they just keep him.

I love the scenario of SAC drafting Doncic because I see the team chemistry getting a major first-year shock with such a ball-dominant player, and just making adjustments to that with a bunch of young and/or mediocre players, should keep the Kings as a bottom 5 team when the ping pong balls get drawn next spring and we get to likely keep their pick.

Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #324 on: June 11, 2018, 02:19:57 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Imagine if our Lakers pick conveyed. Man, we'd be having a summer  8)

This X's a million.

What a drag, right? This top 8 looks absurd. Reminds me of the Lebron draft....except Ayton is the sure thing, and looks like a young Shaq with a jumper.

Ainge blew it with the #2-5 condition. Wonder if that was more HIS idea or Philly? He had to be thinking netting certain value, and how the drop-off throughout the history of the draft, falls off a cliff after the first 5 picks.

I would honestly take the pick where it landed at #10 in this draft, rather than wait a whole season, to get likely #4-8 range in 2019.

If we had #10, we could easily package it with Rozier and get a guy like Bamba/Jackson/Carter. Absolute bummer.

Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #325 on: June 11, 2018, 02:24:42 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Agreed. I feel like SAC will just draft him regardless and either force another team to trade assets, or they just keep him.

I love the scenario of SAC drafting Doncic because I see the team chemistry getting a major first-year shock with such a ball-dominant player, and just making adjustments to that with a bunch of young and/or mediocre players, should keep the Kings as a bottom 5 team when the ping pong balls get drawn next spring and we get to likely keep their pick.
From what I've seen of Doncic I wouldn't classify him as ball dominant. 

Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #326 on: June 11, 2018, 02:30:57 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Agreed. I feel like SAC will just draft him regardless and either force another team to trade assets, or they just keep him.

I love the scenario of SAC drafting Doncic because I see the team chemistry getting a major first-year shock with such a ball-dominant player, and just making adjustments to that with a bunch of young and/or mediocre players, should keep the Kings as a bottom 5 team when the ping pong balls get drawn next spring and we get to likely keep their pick.
From what I've seen of Doncic I wouldn't classify him as ball dominant.

Hmmmm....I mean I don't have his international stats, but he essentially plays as a smaller point-forward. Brings the ball up frequently, drive and dish game....not a huge ISO ball type of player, but if you insert him in to a starting lineup next to De'aaron Fox, who is supposed to develop as their PG, I think it will take a major adjustment on his part especially to work Doncics game in to what he brings to the table.

Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #327 on: June 11, 2018, 02:31:13 PM »

Offline Androslav

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Not a Surprise.
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Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #328 on: June 11, 2018, 03:03:23 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I could see him dropping to 4-5.

Ayton has to go 1. After that, it could be one a very unpredictable draft with so many potential stars.
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Re: Doncic officially declaring for 2018 Draft
« Reply #329 on: June 11, 2018, 03:13:40 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Agreed. I feel like SAC will just draft him regardless and either force another team to trade assets, or they just keep him.

I love the scenario of SAC drafting Doncic because I see the team chemistry getting a major first-year shock with such a ball-dominant player, and just making adjustments to that with a bunch of young and/or mediocre players, should keep the Kings as a bottom 5 team when the ping pong balls get drawn next spring and we get to likely keep their pick.
From what I've seen of Doncic I wouldn't classify him as ball dominant.

Hmmmm....I mean I don't have his international stats, but he essentially plays as a smaller point-forward. Brings the ball up frequently, drive and dish game....not a huge ISO ball type of player, but if you insert him in to a starting lineup next to De'aaron Fox, who is supposed to develop as their PG, I think it will take a major adjustment on his part especially to work Doncics game in to what he brings to the table.
To me a ball dominant player is one who has to have the ball in his hands to be effective.  That's not Doncic from what I've seen.  As for starting next to Fox, I think it would help Fox to have a secondary ball handler.  Forcing young PGs to carry all the load is a good way to rack up a lot of losses.