Author Topic: The President Trump Thread  (Read 111793 times)

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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2445 on: August 13, 2017, 12:43:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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While I think any racist is filth, the white supremacists didn't cause this.

They were issued a permit , which the ACLU had to fight to get them.

BLM and Antifa were issued no such permit, staging an illegal protest. Using homemade fire throwers, mace, bottles filled with rocks, throwing them at Military vets.

Notice how the media mentions White supremacists vs Counter protesters, instead of naming Antifa and BLM,  who have caused violence and are surpressing free speech all over the country.

Again I don't condone racism or violence, but BLM and Antifa had no right to be holding a protest without a permit.

Just my 2 cents

If BLM was doing as you have alleged then not only were THEY wrong BUT also the supposed "Military Vets" that were present.

Was this at a demonstration? When? Where? I'd personally be ASHAMED of ANY of my fellow service members that were present in such a demonstration.

NO ONE is free from Hate / Bigotry. NO ONE. But the bottom line is that in THIS COUNTRY over the last few years these Confederate monuments have been a flash point for some.

BLM - for the most part - has done GOOD in bringing attention to issues in the Black Community. While I certainly don't condone any violent phraseology I look at them with admiration.

They are needed. As long as I stay Black and have 2 Black sons they are needed.

I also look at Law Enforcement in this country with admiration. They wear uniforms just as I did for 20+ years.

They too - are needed.

The bottom line here is that some folks came to Charlotte this weekend to protest the pending removal of this statue and they - for the most part - came ready for violence.

And - as I've stated before - it MUST come down. The statue.

I don't think BLM that deserves to be look at with addoration


They are the antithesis of what MLK preached.

This is a radical group, who are bringing in other far left elements

From the founder
Quote
During her speech at the 2015 Left Forum, Garza voiced her antipathy toward capitalism, declaring, Its not possible for a world to emerge where black lives matter if its under capitalism. And its not possible to abolish capitalism without a struggle against national oppression and gender oppression.

On blacklivesmatter.com she states that, The legacy and prevalence of anti-Black racism and hetero-patriarchy is a lynch pin holding together this unsustainable economy.




It's a radical socialist group, same as Antifa , funded by Nazi Collaborator George Soros to cause race riots in the United States.

Don't just follow something without doing research because it is supposed to be for the benefit of black folks.

I apologize for late reply - I had my skirt on fixing my family breakfast.

You know - gender-role switching ;)

Allow me to take you down Memory Lane just a year or so ago - in "MY" life:

I received a phone call from my oldest son whom was then 18 - right after the gentleman was shot in the back in NC by the police officer. He RARELY calls me at work - especially during the time that he did.

His voice was cracking as he vented to me. He rarely shows much emotion but he did then.

This is "MY LIFE". Welcome to it.

Black Lives Matter protested - as they have done in numerous incidents in this country. For the most part they have been peaceful. In some instances they have made choices I did not like but again I admire them.

This "other" stuff you speak of has no concern of mine, TBH. All I know is that when these police incidents have happened they were often there bringing attention to it.

This is where - sadly - your apparent disconnect is with my "Pain"......and my current "Pain" if you will is what's happening RIGHT NOW in my STATE...

I love this state AND this country - as I've stated before. But - as you seemingly choose to ignore in my posts - these Confederate monuments are being used as flash points for some folks and they need to continue coming down.



Look, I truly am deeply sorry for your "pain". It's not right that you have to live your life that way. I can't imagine what that must feel like, but I'm certain it's not good.

Racism is wrong, point blank. But it's wrong in both directions.

BLM is absolutely a racist organization that promotes 'white hate' and often times resorts to violence and illegal activity. I have no doubts many who associate with that group aren't racist at all, but they are defined by the actions of those leading the way.

Attaching yourself to such a group isn't going to help your cause, if your cause is to bring about a stop to racism. They will certainly stand up for you but the manner in which they are doing so is wrong and actually serves to make the matter worse.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2446 on: August 13, 2017, 12:50:47 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The ignorance we're seeing presently is nothing new, it's just the long-rotting stench finally coming to the surface.

We need to keep in mind that this episode in Charlottesville was due to a Confederate statue being taken down. A statue dedicated to someone who was literally a traitor. The Civil War never really ended, and there has been far too much apologism and tolerance for what was an intolerable cause.

For decades Southern textbooks have made the case that "states' rights" were a primary cause of the War. Pure apologism, but few politicians have had the moxie to call them out on it.

A century ago White America not only tolerated the terrorist KKK but actively bolstered their numbers until they were in the millions. (Donald Trump's own father was arrested at a KKK riot in NYC, coincidentally)

Imagine if in Germany today there were still statues of Hitler and Himmler here and there, and if textbooks referred to WWII as being at least partially justified.

Germany got it right after WWII and laid the smack down on that sort of ignorance with zero-tolerance policies towards nazism and bigotry. Swastikas are illegal there. Racism can result in jail time.

Here in Maine I see the Confederate flag more and more. A flag dedicated to a murderous war fueled by racial hatred and the callous propaganda of big business. And now once again we have poor whites rising up to a pointless cause against the wrong enemy.

America is reaping what is has sowed by not quashing this a long time ago. For shame.

Excellent, excellent post! TP

I certainly don't have any respect for those who spew hate speech or support public displays of bigotry, but I'm not terribly comfortable with limiting it.

People should be able to say what they please, for the most part. If you don't like what someone else has onto say or wants to display, you don't have to look or listen. You also shouldn't be letting others words hurt you (sticks and stones, and all).

No one suggested limiting anyone's freedom of speech. Violence however is totally illegal and totally wrong on a whole other level. That is terrorism
Kraidstar implied free speech should be limited by the government and that views sympathetic to the losing side of the civil war should be stamped out of our school system.

When you say losing side you mean people who wanted to protect there rights to own other people and lead an armed rebellion against The United States, right?
yes that is precisely the side I am talking about.

This isnt the ministry of truth, we must teach it as it happened, not as the winning side wishes it happened.

Did the North have the moral highground? absolutely. Was the North morally perfect while the South was morally bankrupt? no.

The North was not morally perfect but the people fighting to keep the right to slavery where morally bankrupt. I don't think that includes everyone in the south but people who actively fight for the right to own others are morally irredeemable in my eyes...
And that is fine, but doesnt change the fact that the we cant whitewash history and make 1 side motivated by pure evil and the other altruism.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2447 on: August 13, 2017, 12:53:48 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Did the North have the moral highground? absolutely. Was the North morally perfect while the South was morally bankrupt? no.

Was this the way it was taught at my school? No. Were we given a comprehensive look at both sides, including emphasizing the ancilary causes for the war beyond slavery as well as having to read the moral arguments made by those in the south? Yes.
this seems the correct way to teach the Civil war does it not?

Obviously southern schools take a more sympathetic view to the South than is probably reality and that should be examined, but the idea that we should teach this as a binary issue of good vs. evil is ridiculous. Teach what happened.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2448 on: August 13, 2017, 12:55:19 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I have now seen a couple of posters placing the blame on counter-protesters and I disagree.  The blame falls on the people spewing hate speech.  If you spew hate, especially when armed with batons, shields etc. you are being an agitator, you are asking for response and you will get a response.  There will be counter-protests and there will be violence.  Their hate is the root cause of the violence plain and simple.  To say otherwise if pure folly. 

I'm sorry but just because someone is spewing hate speech doesn't give anyone the right to confront them in a physical manner. If you confront a group in such a manner you are absolutely at fault if you initiate 'fight'.

As for what happened in Charlottesville, I'm not sure who actually initiated the physical violence. I'm guessing both sides are partially responsible for the violence that took place.

I know that won't sit well with minorities or liberals, but it's the cold hard truth. You can't go around fighting people who are legally protesting, that's not how it works in this country.

I wish the KKK didn't exist, they're absolutely disgusting human beings that I wish would just die or go away. I'm not defending them, not even a little. But I will defend their right to protest just the same as I would defend anyone's right to protest, provided it's done so in a legal fashion.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2449 on: August 13, 2017, 01:01:44 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I have now seen a couple of posters placing the blame on counter-protesters and I disagree.  The blame falls on the people spewing hate speech.  If you spew hate, especially when armed with batons, shields etc. you are being an agitator, you are asking for response and you will get a response.  There will be counter-protests and there will be violence.  Their hate is the root cause of the violence plain and simple.  To say otherwise if pure folly. 

I'm sorry but just because someone is spewing hate speech doesn't give anyone the right to confront them in a physical manner. If you confront a group in such a manner you are absolutely at fault if you initiate 'fight'.

As for what happened in Charlottesville, I'm not sure who actually initiated the physical violence. I'm guessing both sides are partially responsible for the violence that took place.

I know that won't sit well with minorities or liberals, but it's the cold hard truth. You can't go around fighting people who are legally protesting, that's not how it works in this country.

I wish the KKK didn't exist, they're absolutely disgusting human beings that I wish would just die or go away. I'm not defending them, not even a little. But I will defend their right to protest just the same as I would defend anyone's right to protest, provided it's done so in a legal fashion.

Except it isn't the truth at all. It is already well accepted that the protesters came there to incite violence, and they accomplished it. Carrying torches, spewing hate speech, coming armed with shields and weapons, and the large majority of which were young, fit men ready to fight. They were organized and imported there to incite violence. The federal investigation will also confirm this. There is zero evidence thus far that the anti-protesters started the violence. Zero. But go ahead and call your fictional narrative 'cold hard truth' if it makes you feel better and makes you believe that it justifies hateful acts. I'm sure that will totally help to heal our country.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2450 on: August 13, 2017, 01:07:27 PM »

Offline Cman

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At the very least, marching into a highly progressive city with torches , shields and batons, and chanting hate speech is not going to convince anyone that your intent was a peaceful demonstration



..and driving into a crowd is never ok.

Cold hard truth. Person driving that car is a criminal^^^^^
Celtics fan for life.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2451 on: August 13, 2017, 01:07:29 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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I have now seen a couple of posters placing the blame on counter-protesters and I disagree.  The blame falls on the people spewing hate speech.  If you spew hate, especially when armed with batons, shields etc. you are being an agitator, you are asking for response and you will get a response.  There will be counter-protests and there will be violence.  Their hate is the root cause of the violence plain and simple.  To say otherwise if pure folly. 

I'm sorry but just because someone is spewing hate speech doesn't give anyone the right to confront them in a physical manner. If you confront a group in such a manner you are absolutely at fault if you initiate 'fight'.

As for what happened in Charlottesville, I'm not sure who actually initiated the physical violence. I'm guessing both sides are partially responsible for the violence that took place.

I know that won't sit well with minorities or liberals, but it's the cold hard truth. You can't go around fighting people who are legally protesting, that's not how it works in this country.

I wish the KKK didn't exist, they're absolutely disgusting human beings that I wish would just die or go away. I'm not defending them, not even a little. But I will defend their right to protest just the same as I would defend anyone's right to protest, provided it's done so in a legal fashion.

Except it isn't the truth at all. It is already well accepted that the protesters came there to incite violence, and they accomplished it. Carrying torches, spewing hate speech, coming armed with shields and weapons, and the large majority of which were young, fit men ready to fight. They were organized and imported there to incite violence. The federal investigation will also confirm this. There is zero evidence thus far that the anti-protesters started the violence. Zero. But go ahead and call your fictional narrative 'cold hard truth' if it makes you feel better and makes you believe that it justifies hateful acts. I'm sure that will totally help to heal our country.

No they just came with flame throwers, shields,  helmets, bats , bottles filled with rocks because they are so peaceful.....

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2452 on: August 13, 2017, 01:08:34 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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At the very least, marching into a highly progressive city with torches , shields and batons, and chanting hate speech is not going to convince anyone that your intent was a peaceful demonstration



..and driving into a crowd is never ok.

Cold hard truth. Person driving that car is a criminal^^^^^

Who is disagreeing with that?

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2453 on: August 13, 2017, 01:09:41 PM »

Online nickagneta

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I truly believe that besides the loss of life, the moment that hurt this country most yesterday was the response of the President. The lack of a stern denounciation from the President against the alt right, neo-Nazi, white nationalist movement and actions that caused the loss of American lives only empowers and emboldens a morally bancrupt group. Trump should be ashamed of his response as it was literally "friendly" as compared to Trump's reactions to other events such as the media asking tough questions, Nordstrom's discontinuing his daughter's clothing line, Mexico saying they won't pay for the wall, the Senate not repealing and replacing Obamacare with ANYTHING, etc., etc.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2454 on: August 13, 2017, 01:14:07 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Quote from: GreenFaith1819 link=topic=88987.msg2373615#msg2373615

I love this state AND this country - as I've stated before. But - as you seemingly choose to ignore in my posts - these Confederate monuments are being used as flash points for some folks and they need to continue coming down.
I am sorry to butcher your post down to just the bolded, but I think this is a very interesting discussion.

Should we really be taking down Civil war monuments?

The confederate flag, and confederate monuments like the one to Robert E Lee (who opposed secession and slavery) serve a purpose in remembering our history. Now is there a correct setting to display them? yes. The confederate flag was a flag of war and must be remembered and displayed in that context.

I am strongly against the whitewashing of history. When we remove the reminders and physical symbols of our history it becomes much easier to forget the history itself.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2455 on: August 13, 2017, 01:14:08 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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I truly believe that besides the loss of life, the moment that hurt this country most yesterday was the response of the President. The lack of a stern denounciation from the President against the alt right, neo-Nazi, white nationalist movement and actions that caused the loss of American lives only empowers and emboldens a morally bancrupt group. Trump should be ashamed of his response as it was literally "friendly" as compared to Trump's reactions to other events such as the media asking tough questions, Nordstrom's discontinuing his daughter's clothing line, Mexico saying they won't pay for the wall, the Senate not repealing and replacing Obamacare with ANYTHING, etc., etc.

That's the problem , you are lumping in people that are labled alt right by the media , like Alex Jones has been labeled ( who is actually a classical liberal) as Nazis and white supremacists.


This video is going to hurt your assumption..

ALEX JONES PROTESTS THE KKK in 1999
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEomUOe22ew

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2456 on: August 13, 2017, 01:18:18 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Also, this "demonstration" was planned. They purposely took out a permit to demonstrate knowing that after the violence happened the Nazis could then say they were just peacefully expressing their first amendment rights. Deniability of fault.

Again. This was planned. Those people didn't just decide at the last minute to bring bats, torches, shields, etc., to the event. They were told to bring those things hoping to incite violence and possible rioting. They came prepared for the response they were trying to get.

Trump's response was embarrassing.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2457 on: August 13, 2017, 01:24:21 PM »

Online nickagneta

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I truly believe that besides the loss of life, the moment that hurt this country most yesterday was the response of the President. The lack of a stern denounciation from the President against the alt right, neo-Nazi, white nationalist movement and actions that caused the loss of American lives only empowers and emboldens a morally bancrupt group. Trump should be ashamed of his response as it was literally "friendly" as compared to Trump's reactions to other events such as the media asking tough questions, Nordstrom's discontinuing his daughter's clothing line, Mexico saying they won't pay for the wall, the Senate not repealing and replacing Obamacare with ANYTHING, etc., etc.

That's the problem , you are lumping in people that are labled alt right by the media , like Alex Jones has been labeled ( who is actually a classical liberal) as Nazis and white supremacists.


This video is going to hurt your assumption..

ALEX JONES PROTESTS THE KKK in 1999
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEomUOe22ew
I couldn't give a flying $::#; about Alex Jones. Never mentioned him. Never made an assumption about him. Don't care what his political beliefs are. He is not germaine to the conversation.

You really need to stop with these ridiculous "Yeah, but....look over here" conspiracy theory arguments.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2458 on: August 13, 2017, 01:38:00 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I truly believe that besides the loss of life, the moment that hurt this country most yesterday was the response of the President. The lack of a stern denounciation from the President against the alt right, neo-Nazi, white nationalist movement and actions that caused the loss of American lives only empowers and emboldens a morally bancrupt group.

I agree with everything you're saying here. There's no debate to be had that the whole premise of the "protest" was absolutely abhorrent.

But I just cannot reiterate enough that just because someone is trying to bait you doesn't give you the legal right to take the bait. It's really not even a debatable point.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2459 on: August 13, 2017, 01:43:03 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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At the very least, marching into a highly progressive city with torches , shields and batons, and chanting hate speech is not going to convince anyone that your intent was a peaceful demonstration



..and driving into a crowd is never ok.

Cold hard truth. Person driving that car is a criminal^^^^^

I'm not a proponent of the death penalty whatsoever, but man would I like to make an exception for that scumbag.