Author Topic: The President Trump Thread  (Read 102459 times)

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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1455 on: July 16, 2017, 08:44:39 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I don't know if you have children but if you do and they are young, I bet some day one of them will do something wrong.  When this happens you'll call him/her on it.  In response your child will point out that someone else did it too.  This is what people do to deflect blame, deflect guilt, avoid consequences... 

What will you say to your child?

I have grown children and they have never been arrested.   I always let them choose as a young person and suffer the consequences as long as it was not overtly harmful.   I would tell them what would happen and usually it would go exactly as I told them.   As a result, my children learned to carefully consider the consequences while executing free will.   They are not perfect, no one is, and no one is completely innocent.  When my kids got in minor trouble, they suffered consequences appropriate to the crime.

These are politicians, adults, I do not think the child analogy works well.   These are adults.  All of their brains are fully formed and I would like to think that all of them are intelligent enought to know better.

Kushner needs added to the list of people I think they ought to prosecute.

I'm not entirely sure you got my point. I wasn't trying to equate child and adult behavior.  My point was to suggest that when people defend Trump's (and his team's) indiscretions by pointing out the Clintons indescretions, it's a poor and meaningless defense.   It seemed thar you were doing that but I may have misinterpreted.  I think we are probably on the same page - I just think that whenever I hear "they did it too" it sounds like a way to deflect blame. 

If Trump's campaign colluded with Russia in any way they should be held accountable regardless of anything that did or didn't happen to Hillary, Lynch Podesta, etc... as a result of their misdeeds.
The child behavior analogy, while not perfect, is interesting because it demonstrates how childish 45 is.  So I think you guys are both right.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1456 on: July 16, 2017, 08:53:44 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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As someone who voted for Hillary BUT wanted to give President Trump and VP Pence a chance their time in office has been an embarrassment to me so far.

I'm finding it harder and harder to stomach them.

Even among my co-workers we talk about not only that WE are embarrassed but AMERICA is looking BAD....

I applaud the gains we ARE making - he has placed some good people around him like General Mattis and Mr. Tillerson. I really like these two.

But the other embarrassing stuff has to go. He needs to stop treating the media like the enemy. Smart people SEE through the lies.

Same here, albeit reluctantly, and in the future I just hope that someone takes the time to investigate as to how many Bernie supporters voted for her compared to the number of her supporters who would have voted for him, because I think that there's a good chance that he would have won the presidency, but noooo, the dumb-ass democrats and CNN, etc, just had to do everything in their power to hand her the nomination ::). Wrong candidate, morons.  I should have just written in his name on the ballot, lol. 

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1457 on: July 16, 2017, 09:59:00 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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And the Russian lawyer was let into the country by Lorretta Lynch, and the Obama Administration just 2 days before the Trump interview....

...

The Russian Lawyer was also photographed at a few Anti-Trump protets.

Yea , nothing fishy going on with this....

This was a setup.
Wait, wait... this was a setup, but the Democrats only waited UNTIL AFTER THEY LOST the election to cash it in? Wow.

 ;D ;D ;D
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1458 on: July 16, 2017, 10:30:06 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I don't think everyone is fully considering how serious having a private e-mail server is.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1459 on: July 16, 2017, 10:34:53 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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So I guess the lawyer that met with Trump Jr, Veselnitzkaya, was representing two high level Russians in a money laundering scheme and Jeff Sessions dismissed the case with little reason behind it.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Evidence of quid pro quo???
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 10:58:11 AM by nickagneta »

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1460 on: July 16, 2017, 10:51:38 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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As someone who voted for Hillary BUT wanted to give President Trump and VP Pence a chance their time in office has been an embarrassment to me so far.

I'm finding it harder and harder to stomach them.

Even among my co-workers we talk about not only that WE are embarrassed but AMERICA is looking BAD....

I applaud the gains we ARE making - he has placed some good people around him like General Mattis and Mr. Tillerson. I really like these two.

But the other embarrassing stuff has to go. He needs to stop treating the media like the enemy. Smart people SEE through the lies.

Same here, albeit reluctantly, and in the future I just hope that someone takes the time to investigate as to how many Bernie supporters voted for her compared to the number of her supporters who would have voted for him, because I think that there's a good chance that he would have won the presidency, but noooo, the dumb-ass democrats and CNN, etc, just had to do everything in their power to hand her the nomination ::). Wrong candidate, morons.  I should have just written in his name on the ballot, lol.

Democrats consistently make mistakes in terms of leadership.  An opportunity for a new DNC chairperson results in Perez who basically reads talking points and believes the good right is holding to progressive ideology rather than moderate collaboration and balance.  Same as Debbie W-S, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid.   I'm not huge on Schumer but he is a step up from Reid. 

The Warner, Manchin moderates should be in leadership roles and they just aren't.   If Liz Warren and Bernie (and Pelosi) are leading the Dems it won't matter what happens with Trump, Repubs will maintain control of Congress in 2018 and probably win the presidency again in 2020. 

BTW, if somehow Trump gets past the Russia thing, he's going to reap all the benefits of Obama/Mattis/McMaster/Iraqui  progress v. ISIS.  Trump should get credit for putting competent people in charge and letting them get the job done.   His popularity can still go either way IMO.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1461 on: July 16, 2017, 11:09:16 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I don't think everyone is fully considering how serious having a private e-mail server is.

The FBI fully investigated the private email server and the conclusion was that she was "careless" but that no reasonable prosecutor would see this as criminal.  Not sure who your "everyone" is but it was considered serious enough to warrant a FBI investigation.  I think that is taking it pretty seriously.

My feeling is that this Russia stuff is also serious enough to warrant a full investigation.  Trump to me is trying to discredit, impede, and even potentially obstruct this investigation.  No one knows yet what direct role Trump may or may not have had in this but this isn't about Trump.  It is about getting to the bottom of Russian tampering.  If any Americans were involved (colluding), we need to find out and punish them if laws were broken.  If Trump was involved, he should be impeached.  What does Hilary's email server have to do with this in any way?  How about we let the investigation play out and see what they find?

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1462 on: July 16, 2017, 02:17:40 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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As someone who voted for Hillary BUT wanted to give President Trump and VP Pence a chance their time in office has been an embarrassment to me so far.

I'm finding it harder and harder to stomach them.

Even among my co-workers we talk about not only that WE are embarrassed but AMERICA is looking BAD....

I applaud the gains we ARE making - he has placed some good people around him like General Mattis and Mr. Tillerson. I really like these two.

But the other embarrassing stuff has to go. He needs to stop treating the media like the enemy. Smart people SEE through the lies.

Same here, albeit reluctantly, and in the future I just hope that someone takes the time to investigate as to how many Bernie supporters voted for her compared to the number of her supporters who would have voted for him, because I think that there's a good chance that he would have won the presidency, but noooo, the dumb-ass democrats and CNN, etc, just had to do everything in their power to hand her the nomination ::). Wrong candidate, morons.  I should have just written in his name on the ballot, lol.

Democrats consistently make mistakes in terms of leadership.  An opportunity for a new DNC chairperson results in Perez who basically reads talking points and believes the good right is holding to progressive ideology rather than moderate collaboration and balance.  Same as Debbie W-S, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid.   I'm not huge on Schumer but he is a step up from Reid. 

The Warner, Manchin moderates should be in leadership roles and they just aren't.   If Liz Warren and Bernie (and Pelosi) are leading the Dems it won't matter what happens with Trump, Repubs will maintain control of Congress in 2018 and probably win the presidency again in 2020. 

BTW, if somehow Trump gets past the Russia thing, he's going to reap all the benefits of Obama/Mattis/McMaster/Iraqui  progress v. ISIS.  Trump should get credit for putting competent people in charge and letting them get the job done.   His popularity can still go either way IMO.

Schumer, Reid, and Pelosi are all horrible, imo, but at least Reid isn't in charge, anymore.  Christ that guy was useless.  Ugh.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1463 on: July 16, 2017, 02:41:51 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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So I guess the lawyer that met with Trump Jr, Veselnitzkaya, was representing two high level Russians in a money laundering scheme and Jeff Sessions dismissed the case with little reason behind it.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Evidence of quid pro quo???

We're just 6 months in and the Trump White House has pretty much locked up the title of "Most Corrupt Administration of All-Time." Impressive.

When are the apologists going to wake up? This is NOT normal. I don't want my country to be emulating Russia.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1464 on: July 16, 2017, 06:37:51 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So I guess the lawyer that met with Trump Jr, Veselnitzkaya, was representing two high level Russians in a money laundering scheme and Jeff Sessions dismissed the case with little reason behind it.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Evidence of quid pro quo???

Well, I'd be concerned if those were the facts.

Instead, the case settled two days before trial, which happens all the time. There's no evidence Sessions was involved at all. According to DOJ, the settlement was a good deal. The Russians, of course, say the opposite. Typical litigation. There's nothing that even suggests the attorney in question was an active participant in the trial prep or settlement.

I think we need to be careful in mischaracterizing things to fit a narrative.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 06:49:24 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1465 on: July 16, 2017, 07:48:15 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So I guess the lawyer that met with Trump Jr, Veselnitzkaya, was representing two high level Russians in a money laundering scheme and Jeff Sessions dismissed the case with little reason behind it.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Evidence of quid pro quo???

Well, I'd be concerned if those were the facts.

Instead, the case settled two days before trial, which happens all the time. There's no evidence Sessions was involved at all. According to DOJ, the settlement was a good deal. The Russians, of course, say the opposite. Typical litigation. There's nothing that even suggests the attorney in question was an active participant in the trial prep or settlement.

I think we need to be careful in mischaracterizing things to fit a narrative.
My apologies for mischaracterization. Probably should have written my lead-in to the article better. That still doesn't change the fact that the House Judiciary Committee is asking Sessions pertaining to Veselnitzkaya's possible involvement, the reason for settlement and the timing of the whole thing.

Could this be nothing? Sure. But there is enough there for the House Judiciary Committee to be asking questions.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1466 on: July 16, 2017, 08:28:27 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Thought this was really interesting - during the height of Watergate Art Buchwald made a column of common Nixon defenses. See if any look familiar:



Stuff like this is what gives me a little reassurance that the terrible aspects of our political discourse aren't something unique to our time, we've just always been this stupid.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1467 on: July 16, 2017, 08:54:52 PM »

Online Roy H.

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So I guess the lawyer that met with Trump Jr, Veselnitzkaya, was representing two high level Russians in a money laundering scheme and Jeff Sessions dismissed the case with little reason behind it.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Evidence of quid pro quo???

Well, I'd be concerned if those were the facts.

Instead, the case settled two days before trial, which happens all the time. There's no evidence Sessions was involved at all. According to DOJ, the settlement was a good deal. The Russians, of course, say the opposite. Typical litigation. There's nothing that even suggests the attorney in question was an active participant in the trial prep or settlement.

I think we need to be careful in mischaracterizing things to fit a narrative.
My apologies for mischaracterization. Probably should have written my lead-in to the article better. That still doesn't change the fact that the House Judiciary Committee is asking Sessions pertaining to Veselnitzkaya's possible involvement, the reason for settlement and the timing of the whole thing.

Could this be nothing? Sure. But there is enough there for the House Judiciary Committee to be asking questions.

I agree with that.  People should ask questions, and people should answer those questions under oath.

I wish that the Judiciary Committee could be remotely bi-partisan. Instead, these hearings are mostly about talking points, rather than any legitimate search for the truth.

I further wish that there was some sort of permanent special prosecutor for corruption cases. Who could you possibly appoint who would have the integrity to treat both sides equally though?


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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1468 on: July 16, 2017, 09:00:12 PM »

Offline Cman

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Thought this was really interesting - during the height of Watergate Art Buchwald made a column of common Nixon defenses. See if any look familiar:



Stuff like this is what gives me a little reassurance that the terrible aspects of our political discourse aren't something unique to our time, we've just always been this stupid.

Interesting how similar some of those are to the current narrative of "blame the press" "... but Hillary" "Democrats are just sore they lost" etc.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #1469 on: July 16, 2017, 10:35:14 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So I guess the lawyer that met with Trump Jr, Veselnitzkaya, was representing two high level Russians in a money laundering scheme and Jeff Sessions dismissed the case with little reason behind it.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Evidence of quid pro quo???

Well, I'd be concerned if those were the facts.

Instead, the case settled two days before trial, which happens all the time. There's no evidence Sessions was involved at all. According to DOJ, the settlement was a good deal. The Russians, of course, say the opposite. Typical litigation. There's nothing that even suggests the attorney in question was an active participant in the trial prep or settlement.

I think we need to be careful in mischaracterizing things to fit a narrative.
My apologies for mischaracterization. Probably should have written my lead-in to the article better. That still doesn't change the fact that the House Judiciary Committee is asking Sessions pertaining to Veselnitzkaya's possible involvement, the reason for settlement and the timing of the whole thing.

Could this be nothing? Sure. But there is enough there for the House Judiciary Committee to be asking questions.

I agree with that.  People should ask questions, and people should answer those questions under oath.

I wish that the Judiciary Committee could be remotely bi-partisan. Instead, these hearings are mostly about talking points, rather than any legitimate search for the truth.

I further wish that there was some sort of permanent special prosecutor for corruption cases. Who could you possibly appoint who would have the integrity to treat both sides equally though?
Not sure finding that person is possible. When even Supreme Court Justices are partisan, it seems pretty bleak to think you can find someone in the investigative area of the  justice system to be bi-partisan.