Author Topic: The President Trump Thread  (Read 87496 times)

liam and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2017, 08:01:05 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7837
  • Tommy Points: 470
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
I don't know enough about Judge Gorsuch's stand on issues to say for sure, but based on media reports it looks like he may be on the opposite side of many issues from me.

That said, he is by all accounts a brilliant and accomplished jurist who meets every requirement laid out by the Constitution.

I hope the Democrats protest the shameful and possibly unlawful display of obstructionism by the Republicans with respect to the nomination of Judge Garland by holding timely hearings and votes as required by the Constitution. The high road will show the opposition for what they are.

I agree with this.  The Democrats lost on the Supreme Court.  McConnell and other Republican went rogue against the whole process and I agree have poisoned it.  Repubs were even talking about not allowing any Hillary nominees in during her entire term.  That is shameful.  But the Democrats not only shouldn't but are currently too weak to do anything if a pick is basically qualified as this one is.   Time to build a better movement Dems so that you are not always so easily bullied.  That new movement should be inclusive of all people in the US, not just substantively but in belief and rhetoric.  Bernie had was a natural in that.  The Democrats need other naturals.     

Regarding the sentiment in bold expressed by FatKidsDad:  I actually disagree.

I don't believe that "The high road" will achieve anything other than to yield a lifetime appointment to the high court without any sign of resistance.   Showing the opposition for what they are?  There is plenty that has been shown already.  Those who want to believe one way or the other are not going to suddenly be shown the light of wisdom as the Dems stand proudly on the deck of a sinking ship.

I know that the politics of obstruction are distasteful.  But the practical reality is that the Tea Party and the alt-right have set the stage where they are now going to be the norm.

The Democrats have an obligation to their constituency to do anything legally in their power to prevent or at least resist the implementation of policies that goes against their platform.   If that means they have to boycott or filibuster, to delay and obstruct, then that is part of the legal arsenal and should be used.

The period from now to the mid-term elections is the window in which the Republicans are guaranteed to have the majorities and thus can act without check.    On any particular ruling, order or appointment, a delay of a couple of months or one month or even just a week or two eats into that 24 month window.    Even if the delay is just against the inevitable, that doesn't mean the delay isn't worth doing.

Except there's this little thing called RUNNING THE COUNTRY that kind of needs to be done.  It's how democracy works.

You have an election.
Sometimes, the other side wins.
They get to do what they want, often in part and rarely in whole.
If what they do works, you have to adjust in response to that.
If what they do fails, you win the next time and get to do what you want.
Repeat over and over and over.

That's the ONLY way democracy can work.  If we start denying electoral winners the right/ability to pursue their agenda, the system breaks down.  But there will still be this little thing called RUNNING THE COUNTRY that will have to be done and if it can't be done democratically, then it will eventually be done non-democratically.

There is no other way this story ends.

Yes, it burns that Republicans mindlessly obstructed President Obama and seemingly benefited form it in the short run.  But if everyone is only thinking about the short run, none of us are going to survive in the long run.

Mike

Mike -- I tend to generally agree with your sentiments.  My initial reaction to the Trump victory was that power shifts more quickly than people think -- Congressional campaigns will be in full bloom in about 18 months and this mid-term has a chance to be a powerful referendum on Trump's first 2 years in office. Trump earned his term fair and square and has every right to steer the country in his chosen direction(s).  The difference with Trump, which has become a fear for some and perhaps a curiosity for others, is his sanity.   Is his narcissism an act/game, evidence of inner strength, or evidence of a delusional and fragile character disorder?  If it is the latter, which I am not sure it isn't, the fragility behind the narcissism should scare everyone.  That is because in order to protect a fragile core, a narcissist can become quite desperate in efforts to sustain the ego and rationalize one's grandeur.   The fall from narcissism, when it occurs, is also precipitous. 

So my hope as an American is that the behavioral evidence of a Narcissistic Personality Disorder is actually a conscious façade, and a tactic of leadership fostered to instill confidence and promote "followship".    This explanation wouldn't make me like him much better, but would at least mitigate my worry that we've elected a mentally unstable man. 

Among my biggest worries is his selection of Bannon as his chief strategist and advisor, and Bannon's quick rise in power within the administration and within the national security construct.  Bannon is just the type of brilliant manipulator who could take a narcissist, continually feed the narcissism, and coax the implementation of a democratically disruptive, nationalist, extremist agenda -- which Bannon unabashedly identifies with .

I am not worried enough yet to be among (or even all that supportive of) the protestors.  I despised the republican obstruction and I am not in favor of blind obstruction and protest. Mitch McConnell is not a role model.  But, with each seemingly uninformed, or impulsive, or grandiose-sounding decision, I get just a little more worried about this POTUS.  Which makes this power cycle a little different (possibly) than previous cycles.
Agree with all that.  However, I would say it would be extremely difficult to continuously pretend to have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, much easier to actually have NPD sorry to say. 

Quote
Trump earned his term fair and square and has every right to steer the country in his chosen direction(s). 
Technically yes, he won the electoral college, but he lost the popular vote by an unprecedented amount.  And yes, he has the right to govern but that is not the point.  Since he lost the popular vote, he should be trying to finds ways to bring the country together and work with his opponents.  He is not doing that and on an ethical level I do not see he has the "right to steer the country in his chosen direction(s)"

Bannon is a Nazi and very dangerous, probably more dangerous that the POTUS.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2017, 10:20:56 PM »

Offline greece666

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5958
  • Tommy Points: 938
  • Head Paperboy at Greenville
U.S. judge orders Trump administration to allow entry to immigrant visa holders (Reuters)

Quote
A federal judge in Los Angeles has ruled President Donald Trump's administration must allow immigrants with initial clearance for legal residency to enter the United States from seven Muslim-majority nations, despite an executive order ban.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2017, 08:49:33 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3781
  • Tommy Points: 692
I have a feeling we are all going to get tired of saying this, but THIS might be the scariest thing so far:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kellyanne-conway-creates-fake-bowling-green-massacre-story-a7560526.html

We have a Trump spokesperson on national TV describing a terrorist incident as justification for a crackdown on muslims...except there was no attack!

To sum up: in 2017 in America we a have a spokesperson for the president making up a terrorist incident as justification for a religion specific crackdown.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2017, 08:50:37 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3781
  • Tommy Points: 692
U.S. judge orders Trump administration to allow entry to immigrant visa holders (Reuters)

Quote
A federal judge in Los Angeles has ruled President Donald Trump's administration must allow immigrants with initial clearance for legal residency to enter the United States from seven Muslim-majority nations, despite an executive order ban.

And apparently, the executive branch (not sure how high the orders go up) is ignoring the court order, with no one to enforce the court order. This does sound like a direct challenge to an entire pillar of our 3 pillar government.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2017, 08:55:27 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3781
  • Tommy Points: 692
Trump team turns off recording during Trump-Putin phone call.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/foreign-policy-insider-no-readout-of-trump-putin-call-because-white-house-turned-off-recording/


Quote
Ilan Berman, vice president of the conservative American Foreign Policy Council think tank, reported that the White House turned off its recording equipment during President Donald Trump’s call with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Following the call with Putin on Saturday, the Kremlin published a readout of the hour-long conversation that suggested the Russian president was pleased with Trump’s tone.
Quote
But while the Kremlin produced a detailed 10-paragraph readout of the call, the White House released only a vague one-paragraph statement saying that Trump received a “congratulatory call from Russian President Vladimir Putin.”

During a Wednesday forum on Russian-Turkish relations at the Bipartisan Policy Center, Berman suggested that the White House could not provide additional details about the call because staff had disabled recording equipment, according to Turkish journalist Ilhan Tanir.

I saw this reported. Not Jumping on this because I have no idea: is it standard to record such phone calls? Standard not to? Historically, would this be no big deal or is this like the one time its happened?

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2017, 09:09:02 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3781
  • Tommy Points: 692
Also, with a grain of salt about as big as a car, i've been following this twitter account:
@RoguePOTUSStaff

It is either legit or very cleverly fake. I say that because they do not leak things that are at all that outlandish, and sometimes they seem to beat other sources to some nuggets later confirmed as factual.

This was from right now:
Quote
POTUS refusing intel briefing again. Response: "Take the [dang] briefing! This is why we screwed the pooch in Yemen!"

Quote
POTUS & Bannon warned to never again say they R glad about an 8 year old child being killed in US military action, no matter her father.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2017, 09:16:30 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9212
  • Tommy Points: 1006
U.S. judge orders Trump administration to allow entry to immigrant visa holders (Reuters)

Quote
A federal judge in Los Angeles has ruled President Donald Trump's administration must allow immigrants with initial clearance for legal residency to enter the United States from seven Muslim-majority nations, despite an executive order ban.

And apparently, the executive branch (not sure how high the orders go up) is ignoring the court order, with no one to enforce the court order. This does sound like a direct challenge to an entire pillar of our 3 pillar government.

I'm not surprised by this, on multiple levels.

First, that Trump has gone rogue is pretty much to be expected. I imagine Sinatra's "My Way" playing over and over in his head. That's just who he is. I don't like it as a quality in my President, but apparently there are plenty of people that now do.

And second, I think this was eventually just the next progression of where Executive Orders were heading. Presidents have been "going around congress" for a long time now. I figured some day someone would try to rule by decree. I expect the other branches to fight back at some point, as they should.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2017, 09:20:42 AM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12205
  • Tommy Points: 341
What do folks make of Trumps 180 on Middle East policy?

In December, he blasted the Obama Administration for trying to curb Israeli settlements. Now Trump is asking Israel to curb settlements.

On the campaign trail Trump blasted Obama Administration for Iran policy, saying he would rip up the Iran deal on day one. Now that he is in office, he hasn't ripped up the deal and is basically "staying the course" on Iran policy.

Celtics fan for life.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2017, 09:25:19 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17364
  • Tommy Points: 2282
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
I have a feeling we are all going to get tired of saying this, but THIS might be the scariest thing so far:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kellyanne-conway-creates-fake-bowling-green-massacre-story-a7560526.html

We have a Trump spokesperson on national TV describing a terrorist incident as justification for a crackdown on muslims...except there was no attack!

To sum up: in 2017 in America we a have a spokesperson for the president making up a terrorist incident as justification for a religion specific crackdown.

Spicer also claimed Iran tried to attack a US Navy ship, which would be an act of war. In actuality it was Houthi rebels (Yemen militia with Iranian support) attacking a Saudi ship.

The preference for selective anecdotes over data is bad enough, but the flatout fabrication is extremely dangerous, especially when a lot of people are buying it.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2017, 09:30:27 AM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2046
  • Tommy Points: 258
  • Truth Juice
What do folks make of Trumps 180 on Middle East policy?

In December, he blasted the Obama Administration for trying to curb Israeli settlements. Now Trump is asking Israel to curb settlements.

On the campaign trail Trump blasted Obama Administration for Iran policy, saying he would rip up the Iran deal on day one. Now that he is in office, he hasn't ripped up the deal and is basically "staying the course" on Iran policy.

He's actually done a lot of things he said he would (that people thought it wouldn't actually do).

Have we come to expect him to do everything he promised now?

Perhaps he listed to his advisors and people who have more knowledge on these topics and realized maybe his ideas were not the best.
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

- Me (sometime in January)

--------------------------------------------------------

Guess I was wrong (May 23rd)

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2017, 09:32:00 AM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12205
  • Tommy Points: 341
What do folks make of Trumps 180 on Middle East policy?

In December, he blasted the Obama Administration for trying to curb Israeli settlements. Now Trump is asking Israel to curb settlements.

On the campaign trail Trump blasted Obama Administration for Iran policy, saying he would rip up the Iran deal on day one. Now that he is in office, he hasn't ripped up the deal and is basically "staying the course" on Iran policy.

He's actually done a lot of things he said he would (that people thought it wouldn't actually do).

Have we come to expect him to do everything he promised now?

Perhaps he listed to his advisors and people who have more knowledge on these topics and realized maybe his ideas were not the best.

Agree with you on all points!
Celtics fan for life.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2017, 09:33:13 AM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12205
  • Tommy Points: 341
I have a feeling we are all going to get tired of saying this, but THIS might be the scariest thing so far:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kellyanne-conway-creates-fake-bowling-green-massacre-story-a7560526.html

We have a Trump spokesperson on national TV describing a terrorist incident as justification for a crackdown on muslims...except there was no attack!

To sum up: in 2017 in America we a have a spokesperson for the president making up a terrorist incident as justification for a religion specific crackdown.

Spicer also claimed Iran tried to attack a US Navy ship, which would be an act of war. In actuality it was Houthi rebels (Yemen militia with Iranian support) attacking a Saudi ship.

The preference for selective anecdotes over data is bad enough, but the flatout fabrication is extremely dangerous, especially when a lot of people are buying it.

In fairness to Conway, it was sort of an unscripted moment, and I'm guessing she misspoke, Her comments after the fact (or tweets) suggest she made a mistake. I don't think this is some insidious plot to create fake massacres.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2017, 09:45:28 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 41318
  • Tommy Points: 2268
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
I have a feeling we are all going to get tired of saying this, but THIS might be the scariest thing so far:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kellyanne-conway-creates-fake-bowling-green-massacre-story-a7560526.html

We have a Trump spokesperson on national TV describing a terrorist incident as justification for a crackdown on muslims...except there was no attack!

To sum up: in 2017 in America we a have a spokesperson for the president making up a terrorist incident as justification for a religion specific crackdown.

Spicer also claimed Iran tried to attack a US Navy ship, which would be an act of war. In actuality it was Houthi rebels (Yemen militia with Iranian support) attacking a Saudi ship.

The preference for selective anecdotes over data is bad enough, but the flatout fabrication is extremely dangerous, especially when a lot of people are buying it.

In fairness to Conway, it was sort of an unscripted moment, and I'm guessing she misspoke, Her comments after the fact (or tweets) suggest she made a mistake. I don't think this is some insidious plot to create fake massacres.

I don't think Kell-ee-ann-Con-Way thinks that's how massacres are born either. I think more likely, she just didn't know what she was talking about, and didn't care. Because nobody cares. This is what we are now.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2017, 09:51:13 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15787
  • Tommy Points: 1096
I have a feeling we are all going to get tired of saying this, but THIS might be the scariest thing so far:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kellyanne-conway-creates-fake-bowling-green-massacre-story-a7560526.html

We have a Trump spokesperson on national TV describing a terrorist incident as justification for a crackdown on muslims...except there was no attack!

To sum up: in 2017 in America we a have a spokesperson for the president making up a terrorist incident as justification for a religion specific crackdown.

Spicer also claimed Iran tried to attack a US Navy ship, which would be an act of war. In actuality it was Houthi rebels (Yemen militia with Iranian support) attacking a Saudi ship.

The preference for selective anecdotes over data is bad enough, but the flatout fabrication is extremely dangerous, especially when a lot of people are buying it.
This may be tangential to the discussion, but I feel like it lies squarely on the shoulders of Paul Ryan to determine whether GOP will be the party of McCain and Graham or Conway and Bannon.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2017, 10:26:19 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17427
  • Tommy Points: 8694
I have a feeling we are all going to get tired of saying this, but THIS might be the scariest thing so far:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kellyanne-conway-creates-fake-bowling-green-massacre-story-a7560526.html

We have a Trump spokesperson on national TV describing a terrorist incident as justification for a crackdown on muslims...except there was no attack!

To sum up: in 2017 in America we a have a spokesperson for the president making up a terrorist incident as justification for a religion specific crackdown.

Spicer also claimed Iran tried to attack a US Navy ship, which would be an act of war. In actuality it was Houthi rebels (Yemen militia with Iranian support) attacking a Saudi ship.

The preference for selective anecdotes over data is bad enough, but the flatout fabrication is extremely dangerous, especially when a lot of people are buying it.
This may be tangential to the discussion, but I feel like it lies squarely on the shoulders of Paul Ryan to determine whether GOP will be the party of McCain and Graham or Conway and Bannon.
can we get a 3rd option for where the GOP should be headed?