Author Topic: The President Trump Thread  (Read 173114 times)

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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2775 on: August 16, 2017, 01:11:54 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Quote
A Statement from Denise Morrison, President and CEO (Campbell's Soup)

Racism and murder are unequivocally reprehensible and are not morally equivalent to anything else that happened in Charlottesville.  I believe the President should have been – and still needs to be – unambiguous on that point.

Following yesterday’s remarks from the President, I cannot remain on the Manufacturing Jobs Initiative. I will continue to support all efforts to spur economic growth and advocate for the values that have always made America great.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:32:43 PM by indeedproceed »

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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2776 on: August 16, 2017, 01:21:38 PM »

Online Cman

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Top CEOs jump from Trump, disband strategic council of corporate giants

Members of President Donald Trump's Strategic and Policy Forum have agreed to disband the group, a member told CNBC, as corporate backlash mounts against the president.

The business advisory council made up of top business leaders is separate from Trump's manufacturing council, which several business leaders left this week.

The business backlash to Trump follows his tepid response to violence at a white nationalist rally over the weekend.

"The thinking was it was important to do as a group," a member told CNBC. "As a panel, not as individuals because it would have more significant impact. It makes a central point that it's not going to go forward. It's done."

The Strategic and Policy Forum, led by Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, featured, among others:

* JPMorgan Chase's Jamie Dimon
* BlackRock's Larry Fink
* Wal-Mart's Doug McMillon
* IBM's Ginni Rometty

Wow, that's a pretty big deal.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2777 on: August 16, 2017, 01:27:14 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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Mitt Romney
Quote
No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes.
https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/897612532386607104

McConnell
Quote
...their messages of hate and bigotry are not welcome in Kentucky and should not be welcome anywhere in America
https://apnews.com/df3d973872a94ef5a24bd9cb40ee5a66

Ryan
Quote
We must be clear. White supremacy is repulsive. This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity.
https://twitter.com/SpeakerRyan/status/897579093184610305



These are really clear and straightforward. Why can't Trump do the same?
These are just several examples. The reaction of the entire Congressional caucus has been remarkably unified:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/national/charlottesville-protest-reactions/

Except for the RNC. The RNC is tone-deaf as usual.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2778 on: August 16, 2017, 01:32:16 PM »

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Quote
Top CEOs jump from Trump, disband strategic council of corporate giants

Members of President Donald Trump's Strategic and Policy Forum have agreed to disband the group, a member told CNBC, as corporate backlash mounts against the president.

The business advisory council made up of top business leaders is separate from Trump's manufacturing council, which several business leaders left this week.

The business backlash to Trump follows his tepid response to violence at a white nationalist rally over the weekend.

"The thinking was it was important to do as a group," a member told CNBC. "As a panel, not as individuals because it would have more significant impact. It makes a central point that it's not going to go forward. It's done."

The Strategic and Policy Forum, led by Blackstone CEO Steve Schwarzman, featured, among others:

* JPMorgan Chase's Jamie Dimon
* BlackRock's Larry Fink
* Wal-Mart's Doug McMillon
* IBM's Ginni Rometty

Wow, that's a pretty big deal.

oh, apparently Trump ended the councils moments before everyone quit....
Quote
Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897869174323728385
Celtics fan for life.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2779 on: August 16, 2017, 01:54:09 PM »

Offline byennie

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The continued, tortured use of false moral equivalency and red herrings to shift some share of the blame away from the Unite the Right movement as the fundamental core causal agent for this event is very disturbing.

And it's very sad that there is a very vocal few on this blog who seem to be digging in deeper and deeper with that.


Now see, it's this exact use of heavy handed, inaccurate language to mischaractierize someone's position on a subject that I find deeply offensive.   I have zero respect for this type of behavior. It has no place in society.

Never once have I said I support anyone who is racist. Never once have I said I consider there to be an equivalency between the two sides.   Those are not my words, how dare you claim they are. Shame on you.

All I have said is that violence is unacceptable, plain and simple. The answer to violent people is not to engage them in violence of your own, not in this type of situation. I will not tolerate war on the streets. It should not, and cannot be allowed to happen. There are better, more effective, and most of all, safer means of combating racism.

Hopefully at some point here logic and reason will win out.

I think if you read carefully, you'll see that these things are not mutually exclusive (your peaceful stance and the outrage over false equivalencies). I respect your call for peaceful solutions, and yet, we can still see the importance of not drawing false equivalencies between the groups. I don't see any personal attack from mmmmm. He's literally saying it makes him sad to see white supremacists trivialized down to being comparable to counter-protesters.

When someone says "both sides were violent", they are shifting blame away from the overwhelming problem, plain and simple. Yes, we can acknowledge that the Antifa exists and is not a peaceful group, but we MUST combat this narrative that implies relatively equal guilt/blame/intentions. There are always two sides to violent conflict, but we cannot and should not force the idea that there is no right side simply because all violence is wrong.

Furthermore, this rally wasn't "just" the KKK rearing it's ugly head. That's something I see being rationalized by many relatively moderate folks the last couple days. The event was called "Unite the Right" and featured the alt-right: a political movement that directly helped elect our POTUS, and to which Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller (and David Duke) all happen to belong. Let's let that sink in: white supremacists are the LEADERSHIP of the alt-right, they directly support Trump, and they are part of his administration.

Finally, whatever criticism you have of the Antifa, in the US they are generally tasked with one thing: directly and physically opposing white supremacists. That might not be the right tactic, but let's be clear:

White supremacists: eliminate all other races, oppress women, genocide would be fine if necessary.

Antifa: eliminate white supremacists. A few of us idealize communism.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2780 on: August 16, 2017, 01:57:40 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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oh, apparently Trump ended the councils moments before everyone quit....
Quote
Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897869174323728385
"You can't quit, you're FIRED". It's like watching a D-list Lifetime made-for-TV series, except this one stops being funny when you realize that this petulant adolescent is in charge of the entire country, including the nuclear codes.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2781 on: August 16, 2017, 02:14:25 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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The continued, tortured use of false moral equivalency and red herrings to shift some share of the blame away from the Unite the Right movement as the fundamental core causal agent for this event is very disturbing.

And it's very sad that there is a very vocal few on this blog who seem to be digging in deeper and deeper with that.

Yes this is sad.  No one has condoned the Unite the Right movement on this thread as far as I can tell...but it's still sad and disturbing when so many comments of condemnation are followed with "but...."   The false moral equivalence thing is out there in a big way...from the president #1 and right wing media #2.

There is no moral equivalency in this issue. The fault lies solely on the right-wing rioters who were clearly looking to pick a fight. If we were in court here, the neo Nazis would be the guilty party. However, that does not mean the issue is completely black-and-white. The fact that there exists a villain does not mean that the other side did everything the way it should have.

I frankly think that pointing out how the second group of protestors could have improved their demonstration is the opposite of a red herring. The best way to end heinous acts like the events in Charlottesville, other than education over time, is to constructively critique and improve the actions of their resistance. I'm sure if you asked lots of peace activists, they would tell you that, if they could go back in time, they would have preferred that their side not confront the white supremacists with weapons of its own. I maintain that the peaceful candlelight vigil from later in the evening (that received little to no media coverage because of the earlier violence) was a more appropriate and unifying response.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 03:45:41 PM by GetLucky »

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2782 on: August 16, 2017, 02:44:20 PM »

Offline heyvik

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The continued, tortured use of false moral equivalency and red herrings to shift some share of the blame away from the Unite the Right movement as the fundamental core causal agent for this event is very disturbing.

And it's very sad that there is a very vocal few on this blog who seem to be digging in deeper and deeper with that.


Now see, it's this exact use of heavy handed, inaccurate language to mischaractierize someone's position on a subject that I find deeply offensive.   I have zero respect for this type of behavior. It has no place in society.

Never once have I said I support anyone who is racist. Never once have I said I consider there to be an equivalency between the two sides.   Those are not my words, how dare you claim they are. Shame on you.

All I have said is that violence is unacceptable, plain and simple. The answer to violent people is not to engage them in violence of your own, not in this type of situation. I will not tolerate war on the streets. It should not, and cannot be allowed to happen. There are better, more effective, and most of all, safer means of combating racism.

Hopefully at some point here logic and reason will win out.

I think if you read carefully, you'll see that these things are not mutually exclusive (your peaceful stance and the outrage over false equivalencies). I respect your call for peaceful solutions, and yet, we can still see the importance of not drawing false equivalencies between the groups. I don't see any personal attack from mmmmm. He's literally saying it makes him sad to see white supremacists trivialized down to being comparable to counter-protesters.

When someone says "both sides were violent", they are shifting blame away from the overwhelming problem, plain and simple. Yes, we can acknowledge that the Antifa exists and is not a peaceful group, but we MUST combat this narrative that implies relatively equal guilt/blame/intentions. There are always two sides to violent conflict, but we cannot and should not force the idea that there is no right side simply because all violence is wrong.

Furthermore, this rally wasn't "just" the KKK rearing it's ugly head. That's something I see being rationalized by many relatively moderate folks the last couple days. The event was called "Unite the Right" and featured the alt-right: a political movement that directly helped elect our POTUS, and to which Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller (and David Duke) all happen to belong. Let's let that sink in: white supremacists are the LEADERSHIP of the alt-right, they directly support Trump, and they are part of his administration.

Finally, whatever criticism you have of the Antifa, in the US they are generally tasked with one thing: directly and physically opposing white supremacists. That might not be the right tactic, but let's be clear:

White supremacists: eliminate all other races, oppress women, genocide would be fine if necessary.

Antifa: eliminate white supremacists. A few of us idealize communism.

What a thoughtful and powerful post! Thank you! This is what the Right needs to hear!!

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2783 on: August 16, 2017, 02:46:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So Vice was embedded with some major alt-right figures over the weekend and got a lot of ground-level footage:

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

Some of it is graphic and there's (unsurprisingly) a LOT of language. Try and spot the "very fine people".
If you haven't watched this video from Vice...do so. It shows you the type of people that the President is empowering by trying to shift blame for Charlottesville anywhere but on the people that caused this...the alt right, nazi, white supremist, Klansmen. I found no "fine people" in this video protesting a statue removal.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2784 on: August 16, 2017, 03:43:41 PM »

Online slamtheking

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oh, apparently Trump ended the councils moments before everyone quit....
Quote
Rather than putting pressure on the businesspeople of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897869174323728385
"You can't quit, you're FIRED". It's like watching a D-list Lifetime made-for-TV series, except this one stops being funny when you realize that this petulant adolescent is in charge of the entire country, including the nuclear codes.
I'm wondering if this will be the kick in the ass the Republican party needs to realize it's backing a loser in the white house and decides to pull its party back to its core basics and away from Trump and his core 'basket of deplorables'. 

when the top businesspeople in the country are now shunning the candidate that ran under the premise he was 'the greatest' businessman, it has to get people rethinking why they're backing him.  it just has to.  I can't fathom how people continue to back him

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2785 on: August 16, 2017, 03:53:13 PM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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So Vice was embedded with some major alt-right figures over the weekend and got a lot of ground-level footage:

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

Some of it is graphic and there's (unsurprisingly) a LOT of language. Try and spot the "very fine people".
If you haven't watched this video from Vice...do so. It shows you the type of people that the President is empowering by trying to shift blame for Charlottesville anywhere but on the people that caused this...the alt right, nazi, white supremist, Klansmen. I found no "fine people" in this video protesting a statue removal.
For the first time I am going to go with namecalling here:

In the article below you will find a video from the the guy featured in the Vice video (WARNING: LANGUAGE).  He was alwfully tough in the Vice video but here he is a whiney little Snowflake and he gets no sympathy from me.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/im-terrified-neo-nazi-blubbers-like-a-baby-in-video-reporting-hes-wanted-for-arrest-in-charlottesville/
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 04:12:41 PM by chicagoceltic »
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2786 on: August 16, 2017, 04:18:26 PM »

Online liam

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So Vice was embedded with some major alt-right figures over the weekend and got a lot of ground-level footage:

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

Some of it is graphic and there's (unsurprisingly) a LOT of language. Try and spot the "very fine people".
If you haven't watched this video from Vice...do so. It shows you the type of people that the President is empowering by trying to shift blame for Charlottesville anywhere but on the people that caused this...the alt right, nazi, white supremist, Klansmen. I found no "fine people" in this video protesting a statue removal.
For the first time I am going to go with namecalling here:

In the article below you will find a video from the the guy featured in the Vice video (WARNING: LANGUAGE).  He was alwfully tough in the Vice video but here he is a whiney little Snowflake and he gets no sympathy from me.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/im-terrified-neo-nazi-blubbers-like-a-baby-in-video-reporting-hes-wanted-for-arrest-in-charlottesville/

Quote from this article: “We are trying to make this peaceful, we are trying to be law abiding,” he claimed, in spite of the fact that website the Daily Stormer called for Nazis to disrupt the funeral of Heather Heyer, 32, who was killed when a Nazi marcher plowed his car into a group of anti-racist protesters."

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2787 on: August 16, 2017, 04:19:58 PM »

Online liam

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The continued, tortured use of false moral equivalency and red herrings to shift some share of the blame away from the Unite the Right movement as the fundamental core causal agent for this event is very disturbing.

And it's very sad that there is a very vocal few on this blog who seem to be digging in deeper and deeper with that.

Yes this is sad.  No one has condoned the Unite the Right movement on this thread as far as I can tell...but it's still sad and disturbing when so many comments of condemnation are followed with "but...."   The false moral equivalence thing is out there in a big way...from the president #1 and right wing media #2.

There is no moral equivalency in this issue. The fault lies solely on the right-wing rioters who were clearly looking to pick a fight. If we were in court here, the neo Nazis would be the guilty party. However, that does not mean the issue is completely black-and-white. The fact that there exists a villain does not mean that the other side did everything the way it should have.

I frankly think that pointing out how the second group of protestors could have improved their demonstration is the opposite of a red herring. The best way to end heinous acts like the events in Charlottesville, other than education over time, is to constructively critique and improve the actions of their resistance. I'm sure if you asked lots of peace activists, they would tell you that, if they could go back in time, they would have preferred that their side not confront the white supremacists with weapons of its own. I maintain that the peaceful candlelight vigil from later in the evening (that received little to no media coverage because of the earlier violence) was a more appropriate and unifying response.

Yeah, call me closed minded but I always blame The KKK and Nazis in any situation they are involved in.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2788 on: August 16, 2017, 04:23:50 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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So Vice was embedded with some major alt-right figures over the weekend and got a lot of ground-level footage:

https://news.vice.com/story/vice-news-tonight-full-episode-charlottesville-race-and-terror

Some of it is graphic and there's (unsurprisingly) a LOT of language. Try and spot the "very fine people".
If you haven't watched this video from Vice...do so. It shows you the type of people that the President is empowering by trying to shift blame for Charlottesville anywhere but on the people that caused this...the alt right, nazi, white supremist, Klansmen. I found no "fine people" in this video protesting a statue removal.
For the first time I am going to go with namecalling here:

In the article below you will find a video from the the guy featured in the Vice video (WARNING: LANGUAGE).  He was alwfully tough in the Vice video but here he is a whiney little Snowflake and he gets no sympathy from me.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/im-terrified-neo-nazi-blubbers-like-a-baby-in-video-reporting-hes-wanted-for-arrest-in-charlottesville/

Yeah, he's probably second-thinking that Vice documentary now. Vice let's you tell your story. They don't let you dictate how your story is used.

I'm another +1 on that doc though. Vice did a great job. Thoroughly terrifying.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2789 on: August 16, 2017, 04:25:45 PM »

Online liam

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Mitt Romney  ✔ @MittRomney
No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes.
8:14 PM - Aug 15, 2017