Author Topic: The President Trump Thread  (Read 172940 times)

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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2716 on: August 16, 2017, 02:18:42 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Can we at least agree that if the white nationalists, nazis etc - had NOT went to Charlottesville then not only would Heather Heyer be alive but ALSO those two State Troopers?



You're absolutely right.

But on the flip side, if the groups protesting them had not went to Charlottesville also, there wouldn't have been any violence either.  All it would have been was a bunch of racist idiots standing around with nothing to do.

Groups like that just want attention, in any form.  Why oblige them?

Why?

At the moment, to send a message to the President.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2717 on: August 16, 2017, 04:55:38 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Can we at least agree that if the white nationalists, nazis etc - had NOT went to Charlottesville then not only would Heather Heyer be alive but ALSO those two State Troopers?



You're absolutely right.

But on the flip side, if the groups protesting them had not went to Charlottesville also, there wouldn't have been any violence either.  All it would have been was a bunch of racist idiots standing around with nothing to do.

Groups like that just want attention, in any form.  Why oblige them?

I fear - as a Black Man - that they would've had "PLENTY to do"....

They came ARMED, KG - with shields, helmets and CARS unfortunately.

I read somewhere that the mechanism for tracking such group like the ones that invaded Charlotte was did away with by Mr. Trump?

Sad.....this alone more than likely gave Law Enforcement there VERY little reaction time to prepare for them.

I'm finding it harder and harder to root for Mr Trump. He is a sad man but I'm praying for him.

His deliverance will start to manifest once Bannon departs.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2718 on: August 16, 2017, 05:23:30 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 06:23:24 AM by rondohondo »

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2719 on: August 16, 2017, 06:18:43 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I read somewhere that the mechanism for tracking such group like the ones that invaded Charlotte was did away with by Mr. Trump?

Sad.....this alone more than likely gave Law Enforcement there VERY little reaction time to prepare for them.

Unfortunately, I don't think that having time to prepare was an issue. This thing was announced well in advance.

I think FWF mentioned the funding cuts. It sounds like very late in his administration, Obama had approved $10 million in anti-terrorism grants. Trump reviewed the grant recipients, and diverted some of the money going to non-profits and social welfare groups to law enforcement agencies, instead. One of the grants, for $400k, was a non-profit that helps identify neo-Nazis looking to leave the movement. That grant money would have done nothing to prevent the tragic events in Virginia.

I think that in general there should be more anti-gang funding and focus. A lot of these white supremacist groups would fit that criteria.


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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2720 on: August 16, 2017, 06:45:39 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Can we at least agree that if the white nationalists, nazis etc - had NOT went to Charlottesville then not only would Heather Heyer be alive but ALSO those two State Troopers?



You're absolutely right.

But on the flip side, if the groups protesting them had not went to Charlottesville also, there wouldn't have been any violence either.  All it would have been was a bunch of racist idiots standing around with nothing to do.

Groups like that just want attention, in any form.  Why oblige them?

I fear - as a Black Man - that they would've had "PLENTY to do"....

They came ARMED, KG - with shields, helmets and CARS unfortunately.

I read somewhere that the mechanism for tracking such group like the ones that invaded Charlotte was did away with by Mr. Trump?

Sad.....this alone more than likely gave Law Enforcement there VERY little reaction time to prepare for them.

I'm finding it harder and harder to root for Mr Trump. He is a sad man but I'm praying for him.

His deliverance will start to manifest once Bannon departs.
Yup, they were looking for a fight, no doubt.  When your only tool is a gun, everything looks like a target.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2721 on: August 16, 2017, 06:48:31 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Can we at least agree that if the white nationalists, nazis etc - had NOT went to Charlottesville then not only would Heather Heyer be alive but ALSO those two State Troopers?

This is true.

Quote
They came ARMED, KG - with shields, helmets and CARS unfortunately.

So did some of the protesters.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2722 on: August 16, 2017, 07:41:31 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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Can we at least agree that if the white nationalists, nazis etc - had NOT went to Charlottesville then not only would Heather Heyer be alive but ALSO those two State Troopers?



You're absolutely right.

But on the flip side, if the groups protesting them had not went to Charlottesville also, there wouldn't have been any violence either.  All it would have been was a bunch of racist idiots standing around with nothing to do.

Groups like that just want attention, in any form.  Why oblige them?
I understand your thought here but whether intentional or not President Trump's rhetoric, both while on the campaign trail and since his inauguration, has emboldened the alt-right, white nationalists/supremacists and neo-nazis.  His actions since Charlottesville, again whether intentional or not, has only emboldened this group even more.  This group now feels comfortable crawling out of the darkness and staging events like this because they feel that they have a President who is empathetic to their cause.  There words both before and after Charlottesville prove that they feel this way.  We cannot just ignore them and let them stage these hateful events.  We cannot allow them to think that their hate is ok.  We cannot allow them to feel comfortable.  Now more than ever we need people to stand up to them and let them know that they are wrong, that they are in the minority and that people will not accept their hate.

As for your last sentence regarding them wanting attention and why oblige:  This group of scum is going to get attention and claim victory whether counter-protestors show up or not.  The violence is terribly unfortunate but I am glad that people stood up to them and their agenda.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2723 on: August 16, 2017, 07:41:51 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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They came ARMED, KG - with shields, helmets and CARS unfortunately.
Shields and helmets? You surely jest. This is how they came armed:



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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2724 on: August 16, 2017, 07:57:11 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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They came ARMED, KG - with shields, helmets and CARS unfortunately.
Shields and helmets? You surely jest. This is how they came armed:


Look at how big and brave the cowards are.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2725 on: August 16, 2017, 07:58:49 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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We cannot just ignore them and let them stage these hateful events.  We cannot allow them to think that their hate is ok. 

I think ignoring their rallies is a better situation than engaging with them violently. There have been KKK rallies and parades for years, and they've mostly been treated as irrelevant.  Law enforcement shouldn't ignore them by any means, but otherwise the less attention they get the better.


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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2726 on: August 16, 2017, 08:08:30 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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This is another incident but sometimes the protesters are bad dudes, too

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/03/26/a-pro-trump-rally-ended-up-with-a-man-getting-beaten-with-a-make-america-great-again-sign/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/donald-trump-supporter-violently-attacked-9725188

Nothing like running people over with cars and I don't mean to take away from the heinous act.   But there are people on both sides that are not acting rationally in these events.   Of course, the White Supremacists are worse by a long shot.   

I wonder how many here watched the protests in Charlottesville?   I was off that day and watched some of them it was pretty riveting.  I saw some of the protesters throw bottles and mace some of the demonstrators ( I really hate using that word, here as I think they are little more than demagoguery and an attempt to antagonize others).

Quote
I think ignoring their rallies is a better situation than engaging with them violently. There have been KKK rallies and parades for years, and they've mostly been treated as irrelevant.  Law enforcement shouldn't ignore them by any means, but otherwise the less attention they get the better.

I agree.   This was the best response I have ever seen to negate a rally.  It was non violent and it was hilarious how he foiled them and it took no small amount of courage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_rHuhoSTJU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169567/Hilarious-moment-tuba-player-ridicules-KKK-supporters-Family-Guy-style-serenade-Confederate-rally-South-Carolina.html

You could see their morale plummet.

The trouble with resorting to violence, is some people are trained and inherently better at it and sometimes armed.   With neophytes to violence try to react against foes like this they get crushed.   People that use violence all the time are usually better than it than those who think they got to do something.   Plus, it just makes matter worse.

Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2727 on: August 16, 2017, 08:12:17 AM »

Offline chicagoceltic

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We cannot just ignore them and let them stage these hateful events.  We cannot allow them to think that their hate is ok. 

I think ignoring their rallies is a better situation than engaging with them violently. There have been KKK rallies and parades for years, and they've mostly been treated as irrelevant.  Law enforcement shouldn't ignore them by any means, but otherwise the less attention they get the better.
Of course I would rather they were not engaged violently but I think that unfortunately we are now at a point where they cannot just be ignored. 
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2728 on: August 16, 2017, 08:13:30 AM »

Online kozlodoev

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We cannot just ignore them and let them stage these hateful events.  We cannot allow them to think that their hate is ok. 

I think ignoring their rallies is a better situation than engaging with them violently. There have been KKK rallies and parades for years, and they've mostly been treated as irrelevant.  Law enforcement shouldn't ignore them by any means, but otherwise the less attention they get the better.
This might have been true in times when we didn't have a President who openly condoned this type of stuff. Now? I'm not so sure.
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Re: The President Trump Thread
« Reply #2729 on: August 16, 2017, 08:25:46 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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When i see the "leftist" protesters tearing down a statue, it makes it really hard for me to support them.  They are winning, there is no need for this.  The statues are coming down.  I have a hard time supporting them even though I generally support their underlying motivation.  If I was the president, I would feel that I had to condemn the action of defacing and destructing the statues (which Trump did).

Now we have these rightist protesters.  There is a level at which some of their motivations are debatable such as affirmative action, immigration, even the statues they are using as cover, these are legitimate political debating points.  Even if their protest was solely based on these types of points, once they show up with guns and sticks, looking for a fight, even those that may align with the more legitimate political aspects must begin to question their support (but not Trump and many others).

But they went further, they went beyond what could be argued are legitimate political discussions, they came with the robes and torches, swastikas, and were chanting hostile antisemitic messages.  No one should be able to say they support the underlying motivation of this type of protest, even if it was non-violent.  But it was both.  It was both stunningly racist and violent.  They had semi-automatic weapons for heavens sake!

But Trump couldn't say he rejects it.  They have him.  He tried a more conventional response the second time but David Duke tweeted he didn't like the second message so Trump had to backtrack and clarify that he was still OK with the protest, just not the car murder.  He said the leftist protesters were worse and that they were going to tear down statues of George Washington (real meaning they hate America), something real Americans (like the rightist protesters) would never do.  Oh, and the rightist protesters had a permit.

This is really bad.  It is not going to be easy to put this evil genie back in its bottle.