Poll

Fultz is gone we are picking second. Who's the best fit for the Celtics

Jackson
13 (28.9%)
Tatum
4 (8.9%)
Ball
11 (24.4%)
Smith JR
1 (2.2%)
Monk
0 (0%)
Fox
2 (4.4%)
Isaac
14 (31.1%)

Total Members Voted: 45

Author Topic: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017  (Read 10402 times)

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Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2017, 03:22:33 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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If it's fit over bpa... I'd have to go with Isaac or Monk.

Isaac looks like he could become the stretch 4 we need and be able to play next to Brown. A Smart/Monk future backcourt sounds like it could be scary good. They complement each other so well. Smart is a big PG while Monk is a smaller combo guard, it lets Smart be able to always guard the biggest guard. Monk is a lights out shooter. Smart is a better distributor. Both can handle the ball. Both seem like a strong "fit".

Why do we need a stretch 4? Horford stretches the floor currently.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2017, 04:00:29 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Ball and Jackson seem to be the 2nd and 3rd best prospects to me, but the question here is fit.

That also rules out Fox, Monk, and Smith Jr. Tatum is too one-dimensional.

Isaac fits best.

I think Jackson and Ball are the two guys Id want to pick. If I had to make that call today. Im going Ball, if Jackson can prove his recent 3 point shooting is for real, I think I might go Jackson.

Wait why is Tatum one dimensional?
Cant shoot threes or pass. Its also my understanding that he doesnt project as a good rebounder or defender and hes not particularly athletic.

I wouldnt classify him as a playmaker but he can pass. He is more scorer than anything. iM not sure about his abilty to not hit them. I wouldnt look at any shooting numbers this year and make definitive statements. He will be an above average rebounder and defender.

Im not saying he is Pierce but would you not take Pierce today based on some of these same qualities?
I stand by saying he is 1-dimensional. He scores from inside the 3 point line. I like him a lot.

However, if you arent a good passer, you cant shoot threes, and you dont project good defender, I dont think you fit too well.

So you wouldnt take DeRozen on this team? He doesnt take many 3 at all. Is just an average passer and defender.

And im not sure what games entail your scouting report of him but if you are just looking at Duke games your missing a great deal of the picture.
Look, I answered the question. the question of best fit. I think Tatums shortcomings as a 3 point shooter and a passer make him a poor fit compared to Isaac who is a better rebounder and shooter.

Isaac also sucks at passing, but thats OK because he can shoot and helps address rebounding and size issues.

Id also posit that Derozan is 1-dimensional and wouldnt be a great fit here. Would I take him? would he help us? absolutely, but would he fit with what we want to do better than a 6'11 player who can rebound, block shots and hit 3s? nope.

What does he offere that Jerebko doesnt already? Both guys arent physical players. both shoot from range. Both move wel without the ball. Isaac is thin as hell with skinny hips. Im not saying that he doesnt have more potential than Jerebko but their skills arent that much different.
I think hes better as a shot blocker and defensive rebounder. Hes also a better athlete. More importantly, I think a rich-mans Jerebko(a pretty pessismistic evaluation of Isaac) is a great fit in Boston.

Does he grab boards in traffic? Is he not a finesse player? Yes he blocks shots but he isnt a guy that can play the 4 full time. He has alot of tools that can lead to a very high level player but by no means do I see him as the answer at the 4 because I dont think he can defend that position.
Players that succeed in Brads system are generally either plus passers or plus 3 point shooters. Tatum is neither. Isaac can shoot. Tatum and Isaac both project as decent defenders but Isaacs length and quickness make him more versatile. Isaac is also a better rebounder right now.

I think Tatum is a terrific scorer in the half court and he shoots 84% from the free throw line so there is reason to believe he can become a really good 3 point shooter.

Quite frankly if you asked me today Id say Tatum is the better prospect and we need to go BPA so give me Tatum. However, I still think Tatum is largely 1-dimensional (cant shoot 3s, cant create for others, isnt good enough at anything else for them to be considered major plusses at this point in time).

Luckily for Tatum he has a terrific physical profile and his one skill is ridiculously important so he can develop his weaker spots and even if he doesnt still be a great player.

Isaac, I still think fits better into what we want to do.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2017, 04:50:29 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Ball and Jackson seem to be the 2nd and 3rd best prospects to me, but the question here is fit.

That also rules out Fox, Monk, and Smith Jr. Tatum is too one-dimensional.

Isaac fits best.

I think Jackson and Ball are the two guys Id want to pick. If I had to make that call today. Im going Ball, if Jackson can prove his recent 3 point shooting is for real, I think I might go Jackson.

Wait why is Tatum one dimensional?
Cant shoot threes or pass. Its also my understanding that he doesnt project as a good rebounder or defender and hes not particularly athletic.

I wouldnt classify him as a playmaker but he can pass. He is more scorer than anything. iM not sure about his abilty to not hit them. I wouldnt look at any shooting numbers this year and make definitive statements. He will be an above average rebounder and defender.

Im not saying he is Pierce but would you not take Pierce today based on some of these same qualities?
I stand by saying he is 1-dimensional. He scores from inside the 3 point line. I like him a lot.

However, if you arent a good passer, you cant shoot threes, and you dont project good defender, I dont think you fit too well.

So you wouldnt take DeRozen on this team? He doesnt take many 3 at all. Is just an average passer and defender.

And im not sure what games entail your scouting report of him but if you are just looking at Duke games your missing a great deal of the picture.
Look, I answered the question. the question of best fit. I think Tatums shortcomings as a 3 point shooter and a passer make him a poor fit compared to Isaac who is a better rebounder and shooter.

Isaac also sucks at passing, but thats OK because he can shoot and helps address rebounding and size issues.

Id also posit that Derozan is 1-dimensional and wouldnt be a great fit here. Would I take him? would he help us? absolutely, but would he fit with what we want to do better than a 6'11 player who can rebound, block shots and hit 3s? nope.

What does he offere that Jerebko doesnt already? Both guys arent physical players. both shoot from range. Both move wel without the ball. Isaac is thin as hell with skinny hips. Im not saying that he doesnt have more potential than Jerebko but their skills arent that much different.
I think hes better as a shot blocker and defensive rebounder. Hes also a better athlete. More importantly, I think a rich-mans Jerebko(a pretty pessismistic evaluation of Isaac) is a great fit in Boston.

Does he grab boards in traffic? Is he not a finesse player? Yes he blocks shots but he isnt a guy that can play the 4 full time. He has alot of tools that can lead to a very high level player but by no means do I see him as the answer at the 4 because I dont think he can defend that position.
Players that succeed in Brads system are generally either plus passers or plus 3 point shooters. Tatum is neither. Isaac can shoot. Tatum and Isaac both project as decent defenders but Isaacs length and quickness make him more versatile. Isaac is also a better rebounder right now.

I think Tatum is a terrific scorer in the half court and he shoots 84% from the free throw line so there is reason to believe he can become a really good 3 point shooter.

Quite frankly if you asked me today Id say Tatum is the better prospect and we need to go BPA so give me Tatum. However, I still think Tatum is largely 1-dimensional (cant shoot 3s, cant create for others, isnt good enough at anything else for them to be considered major plusses at this point in time).

Luckily for Tatum he has a terrific physical profile and his one skill is ridiculously important so he can develop his weaker spots and even if he doesnt still be a great player.

Isaac, I still think fits better into what we want to do.

A plus passer or plus shooter. Well lets see. If this is the case, Im not sure why they took Brown if you are just looking at his college numbers. Jaylen had a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Jaylen didnt make passes that made guys better. His rebounding numbers were just ok.

Based on what you project the system to be there would have been no reason to even look at Jaylen because he didnt fit the profile you just described in college. When I saw Jaylen as a junior in HS I knew that he had many of the skills that this team needed. If shooting and passing were the most important ingredients, why didnt they take Murray? Murray can do both. Or if you are willing to excuse passing why not take Hield?

Isaac is 6'10 or 11 205. That's pretty light considering his frame. He isnt elite at anything yet. He isnt a shot blocker. He isnt your main rebounder. He isnt your go to scorer. He isnt your facilitator. He does all of these things but isnt elite at any. His best offensive skill is one dribble pull ups followed by spot ups, followed by slashing. These are all skills we already have.

This team needs a couple of things. 1) Another guy that can create his own shot from the wing position. 2) Rebounding. 3) Size on the wing. 4) They need to provide more variance to their offense hence Crowder being much more dynamic putting the ball on the floor and going toward the rim than the one dribble escape dribble and shoot 3s.

There isnt much of a difference in terms of shot blocking because their numbers are similar although I would say that Isaac is much more natural at this. Comparable rebounders despite size differences.

Ultimately for me between the two it comes down to skill set vs what the Cs dont already have. To me Isaac doesnt present much difference than what we already have on the team.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2017, 04:59:35 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I think by the tourney if Giles proves to have his athleticism back, Ainge would draft him 3rd. If he doesn't, then I think he will go with Jackson. I think Ainge would take Jackson over Ball. Jackson just seems like a type of player Ainge would be high on.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2017, 05:07:16 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Ball and Jackson seem to be the 2nd and 3rd best prospects to me, but the question here is fit.

That also rules out Fox, Monk, and Smith Jr. Tatum is too one-dimensional.

Isaac fits best.

I think Jackson and Ball are the two guys Id want to pick. If I had to make that call today. Im going Ball, if Jackson can prove his recent 3 point shooting is for real, I think I might go Jackson.

Wait why is Tatum one dimensional?
Cant shoot threes or pass. Its also my understanding that he doesnt project as a good rebounder or defender and hes not particularly athletic.

I wouldnt classify him as a playmaker but he can pass. He is more scorer than anything. iM not sure about his abilty to not hit them. I wouldnt look at any shooting numbers this year and make definitive statements. He will be an above average rebounder and defender.

Im not saying he is Pierce but would you not take Pierce today based on some of these same qualities?
I stand by saying he is 1-dimensional. He scores from inside the 3 point line. I like him a lot.

However, if you arent a good passer, you cant shoot threes, and you dont project good defender, I dont think you fit too well.

So you wouldnt take DeRozen on this team? He doesnt take many 3 at all. Is just an average passer and defender.

And im not sure what games entail your scouting report of him but if you are just looking at Duke games your missing a great deal of the picture.
Look, I answered the question. the question of best fit. I think Tatums shortcomings as a 3 point shooter and a passer make him a poor fit compared to Isaac who is a better rebounder and shooter.

Isaac also sucks at passing, but thats OK because he can shoot and helps address rebounding and size issues.

Id also posit that Derozan is 1-dimensional and wouldnt be a great fit here. Would I take him? would he help us? absolutely, but would he fit with what we want to do better than a 6'11 player who can rebound, block shots and hit 3s? nope.

What does he offere that Jerebko doesnt already? Both guys arent physical players. both shoot from range. Both move wel without the ball. Isaac is thin as hell with skinny hips. Im not saying that he doesnt have more potential than Jerebko but their skills arent that much different.
I think hes better as a shot blocker and defensive rebounder. Hes also a better athlete. More importantly, I think a rich-mans Jerebko(a pretty pessismistic evaluation of Isaac) is a great fit in Boston.

Does he grab boards in traffic? Is he not a finesse player? Yes he blocks shots but he isnt a guy that can play the 4 full time. He has alot of tools that can lead to a very high level player but by no means do I see him as the answer at the 4 because I dont think he can defend that position.
Players that succeed in Brads system are generally either plus passers or plus 3 point shooters. Tatum is neither. Isaac can shoot. Tatum and Isaac both project as decent defenders but Isaacs length and quickness make him more versatile. Isaac is also a better rebounder right now.

I think Tatum is a terrific scorer in the half court and he shoots 84% from the free throw line so there is reason to believe he can become a really good 3 point shooter.

Quite frankly if you asked me today Id say Tatum is the better prospect and we need to go BPA so give me Tatum. However, I still think Tatum is largely 1-dimensional (cant shoot 3s, cant create for others, isnt good enough at anything else for them to be considered major plusses at this point in time).

Luckily for Tatum he has a terrific physical profile and his one skill is ridiculously important so he can develop his weaker spots and even if he doesnt still be a great player.

Isaac, I still think fits better into what we want to do.

A plus passer or plus shooter. Well lets see. If this is the case, Im not sure why they took Brown if you are just looking at his college numbers. Jaylen had a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Jaylen didnt make passes that made guys better. His rebounding numbers were just ok.

Based on what you project the system to be there would have been no reason to even look at Jaylen because he didnt fit the profile you just described in college. When I saw Jaylen as a junior in HS I knew that he had many of the skills that this team needed. If shooting and passing were the most important ingredients, why didnt they take Murray? Murray can do both. Or if you are willing to excuse passing why not take Hield?

Isaac is 6'10 or 11 205. That's pretty light considering his frame. He isnt elite at anything yet. He isnt a shot blocker. He isnt your main rebounder. He isnt your go to scorer. He isnt your facilitator. He does all of these things but isnt elite at any. His best offensive skill is one dribble pull ups followed by spot ups, followed by slashing. These are all skills we already have.

This team needs a couple of things. 1) Another guy that can create his own shot from the wing position. 2) Rebounding. 3) Size on the wing. 4) They need to provide more variance to their offense hence Crowder being much more dynamic putting the ball on the floor and going toward the rim than the one dribble escape dribble and shoot 3s.

There isnt much of a difference in terms of shot blocking because their numbers are similar although I would say that Isaac is much more natural at this. Comparable rebounders despite size differences.

Ultimately for me between the two it comes down to skill set vs what the Cs dont already have. To me Isaac doesnt present much difference than what we already have on the team.
They didnt pick Brown because he fit. You dont pick players based on fit. you pick players based on who is the best player available and maybe use fit as a tie-breaker. Also, with Brown on the roster Tatum fits just a tiny bit worse.

Brown was BPA and he fit better than Murray Hield or Dunn purely based off the fact that he wasnt a gaurd.

Bender probably fit the best last year.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2017, 06:04:52 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

  • Jaylen Brown
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Ball and Jackson seem to be the 2nd and 3rd best prospects to me, but the question here is fit.

That also rules out Fox, Monk, and Smith Jr. Tatum is too one-dimensional.

Isaac fits best.

I think Jackson and Ball are the two guys Id want to pick. If I had to make that call today. Im going Ball, if Jackson can prove his recent 3 point shooting is for real, I think I might go Jackson.

Wait why is Tatum one dimensional?
Cant shoot threes or pass. Its also my understanding that he doesnt project as a good rebounder or defender and hes not particularly athletic.

I wouldnt classify him as a playmaker but he can pass. He is more scorer than anything. iM not sure about his abilty to not hit them. I wouldnt look at any shooting numbers this year and make definitive statements. He will be an above average rebounder and defender.

Im not saying he is Pierce but would you not take Pierce today based on some of these same qualities?
I stand by saying he is 1-dimensional. He scores from inside the 3 point line. I like him a lot.

However, if you arent a good passer, you cant shoot threes, and you dont project good defender, I dont think you fit too well.

So you wouldnt take DeRozen on this team? He doesnt take many 3 at all. Is just an average passer and defender.

And im not sure what games entail your scouting report of him but if you are just looking at Duke games your missing a great deal of the picture.
Look, I answered the question. the question of best fit. I think Tatums shortcomings as a 3 point shooter and a passer make him a poor fit compared to Isaac who is a better rebounder and shooter.

Isaac also sucks at passing, but thats OK because he can shoot and helps address rebounding and size issues.

Id also posit that Derozan is 1-dimensional and wouldnt be a great fit here. Would I take him? would he help us? absolutely, but would he fit with what we want to do better than a 6'11 player who can rebound, block shots and hit 3s? nope.

What does he offere that Jerebko doesnt already? Both guys arent physical players. both shoot from range. Both move wel without the ball. Isaac is thin as hell with skinny hips. Im not saying that he doesnt have more potential than Jerebko but their skills arent that much different.
I think hes better as a shot blocker and defensive rebounder. Hes also a better athlete. More importantly, I think a rich-mans Jerebko(a pretty pessismistic evaluation of Isaac) is a great fit in Boston.

Does he grab boards in traffic? Is he not a finesse player? Yes he blocks shots but he isnt a guy that can play the 4 full time. He has alot of tools that can lead to a very high level player but by no means do I see him as the answer at the 4 because I dont think he can defend that position.
Players that succeed in Brads system are generally either plus passers or plus 3 point shooters. Tatum is neither. Isaac can shoot. Tatum and Isaac both project as decent defenders but Isaacs length and quickness make him more versatile. Isaac is also a better rebounder right now.

I think Tatum is a terrific scorer in the half court and he shoots 84% from the free throw line so there is reason to believe he can become a really good 3 point shooter.

Quite frankly if you asked me today Id say Tatum is the better prospect and we need to go BPA so give me Tatum. However, I still think Tatum is largely 1-dimensional (cant shoot 3s, cant create for others, isnt good enough at anything else for them to be considered major plusses at this point in time).

Luckily for Tatum he has a terrific physical profile and his one skill is ridiculously important so he can develop his weaker spots and even if he doesnt still be a great player.

Isaac, I still think fits better into what we want to do.

A plus passer or plus shooter. Well lets see. If this is the case, Im not sure why they took Brown if you are just looking at his college numbers. Jaylen had a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Jaylen didnt make passes that made guys better. His rebounding numbers were just ok.

Based on what you project the system to be there would have been no reason to even look at Jaylen because he didnt fit the profile you just described in college. When I saw Jaylen as a junior in HS I knew that he had many of the skills that this team needed. If shooting and passing were the most important ingredients, why didnt they take Murray? Murray can do both. Or if you are willing to excuse passing why not take Hield?

Isaac is 6'10 or 11 205. That's pretty light considering his frame. He isnt elite at anything yet. He isnt a shot blocker. He isnt your main rebounder. He isnt your go to scorer. He isnt your facilitator. He does all of these things but isnt elite at any. His best offensive skill is one dribble pull ups followed by spot ups, followed by slashing. These are all skills we already have.

This team needs a couple of things. 1) Another guy that can create his own shot from the wing position. 2) Rebounding. 3) Size on the wing. 4) They need to provide more variance to their offense hence Crowder being much more dynamic putting the ball on the floor and going toward the rim than the one dribble escape dribble and shoot 3s.

There isnt much of a difference in terms of shot blocking because their numbers are similar although I would say that Isaac is much more natural at this. Comparable rebounders despite size differences.

Ultimately for me between the two it comes down to skill set vs what the Cs dont already have. To me Isaac doesnt present much difference than what we already have on the team.
They didnt pick Brown because he fit. You dont pick players based on fit. you pick players based on who is the best player available and maybe use fit as a tie-breaker. Also, with Brown on the roster Tatum fits just a tiny bit worse.

Brown was BPA and he fit better than Murray Hield or Dunn purely based off the fact that he wasnt a gaurd.

Bender probably fit the best last year.

I agree on the drafting principles. You draft for BPA. We have agreed on that from the start. We both agree that we think Tatum is the better player. Im just saying I dont see the fit because he offers many of the same skills we already have that are in need of an upgrade. To me that's a bad fit. Its like putting Jerebko in Amir's body and saying its a good fit knowing you are still going to get killed on the boards. Knowing the guy cant create the level of shots needed at this time to suggest he can create for anyone. To me that spells bad fit.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2017, 08:10:26 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Regarding Jackson, I'd like to point out that he's quite old for his year.  He'll be twenty on Feb 20th.  He's more than a year older than Tatum.  Tatum has gone through a lot of physical changes in the past year as he was a toothpick last spring.  IMHO, I like Tatum's potential better.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2017, 08:18:57 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Lonzo Ball man. If he is the real deal, he is going to be an extremely special player. He could help Jaylen's growth too. You guys see how many shots UCLA gets up? Its ridiculous.

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2017, 08:48:31 PM »

Offline number_n9ne

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If it's fit over bpa... I'd have to go with Isaac or Monk.

Isaac looks like he could become the stretch 4 we need and be able to play next to Brown. A Smart/Monk future backcourt sounds like it could be scary good. They complement each other so well. Smart is a big PG while Monk is a smaller combo guard, it lets Smart be able to always guard the biggest guard. Monk is a lights out shooter. Smart is a better distributor. Both can handle the ball. Both seem like a strong "fit".

Why do we need a stretch 4? Horford stretches the floor currently.

I'm sorry I should have clarified that in my original post. I guess I'm looking at this from a future perspective, where what young prospects do we have and what positions, or "fit", do we need. I see Smart, Brown and Zizic and I think we are missing prospects at SG and PF.     

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2017, 09:14:01 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Regarding Jackson, I'd like to point out that he's quite old for his year.  He'll be twenty on Feb 20th.  He's more than a year older than Tatum.  Tatum has gone through a lot of physical changes in the past year as he was a toothpick last spring.  IMHO, I like Tatum's potential better.

Too bad Tatum potential cant save him from his beta dog mentality

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2017, 09:17:39 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I think by the tourney if Giles proves to have his athleticism back, Ainge would draft him 3rd. If he doesn't, then I think he will go with Jackson. I think Ainge would take Jackson over Ball. Jackson just seems like a type of player Ainge would be high on.

AB, Smart, Rozier, Brown.... Jackson
I agree. All danny type players... Tough defenders

Re: Poll: What prospect fits our team Best 2017
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2017, 02:48:10 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Tatum still one dimensional?