Author Topic: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban  (Read 10321 times)

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Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2017, 05:32:52 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

Trump voters who now have regrets have offered different reasons.
- some thought he was saying stuff to get elected
- some thought current established repubs  had both principals and spines and would reign him in
- some thought hed appoint moderates for policy decisions
- some literally thought he was both "refreshingly honest" yet also didnt mean his hateful record.

Anyone who voted for Trump and is surprised/disappointed has....questionable executive function, reason, and logic. Those who voted for Trump and are getting exactly what they wanted apparently only liked the parts of US history where you look at the stains on our record.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2017, 05:40:43 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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If there is any at all overarching theme this situation has driven home, it is this: if you have flaws, just accuse your opponent of those very flaws first and frequently:

"Hillary bought and paid for"
(We literally dont know where trump, who has been bankrupt and bailed out seceral times, owes money because of his shadow network of accounts and refusal to release taxes; also hired way more wall street people that hillary was expected to)

"Pay for play is bad"
(Florida brought suit against trump u; trump made campaign donation to prosecuter, and tried to hide it from us by doing it illegally through charities; she drops case now will work for him)

"Clinton foundation corrupt"
(Trump foundation has received none of trumps money; is used to settle his personal suits)

"Bills settlement for 6 figures is proof of guilt!"
(Settles for millions in his fraudulent university case)

I mean itgoeson. There hasn't been more blatant hypocrisy, ever.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2017, 05:46:49 PM »

Offline TrueFan

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

Trump voters who now have regrets have offered different reasons.
- some thought he was saying stuff to get elected
- some thought current established repubs  had both principals and spines and would reign him in
- some thought hed appoint moderates for policy decisions
- some literally thought he was both "refreshingly honest" yet also didnt mean his hateful record.

Anyone who voted for Trump and is surprised/disappointed has....questionable executive function, reason, and logic. Those who voted for Trump and are getting exactly what they wanted apparently only liked the parts of US history where you look at the stains on our record.
I'm not sure what you're talking about because I haven't heard any regret from Trump supporters.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2017, 06:03:39 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

I was paying attention, and I clearly remember Trump saying he was going to do these things.  I guess I was hoping he wouldn't get away with it.
 
In any event, are we supposed to just sit back and say; "that's cool," because he said this was what he was going to do?

It's not cool, it flies in the face of logic and humanity.  He must be stopped.
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
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PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2017, 06:17:34 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

I was paying attention, and I clearly remember Trump saying he was going to do these things.  I guess I was hoping he wouldn't get away with it.
 
In any event, are we supposed to just sit back and say; "that's cool," because he said this was what he was going to do?

It's not cool, it flies in the face of logic and humanity.  He must be stopped.
The American people elected him.  This is what they wanted.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #80 on: January 28, 2017, 06:22:16 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

I was paying attention, and I clearly remember Trump saying he was going to do these things.  I guess I was hoping he wouldn't get away with it.
 
In any event, are we supposed to just sit back and say; "that's cool," because he said this was what he was going to do?

It's not cool, it flies in the face of logic and humanity.  He must be stopped.
The American people elected him.  This is what they wanted.

Yes. This is what a minority of americans want, and we all get a t because of the legacy of an electoral system put in place to make sure slavery was protected.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #81 on: January 28, 2017, 06:25:48 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

I was paying attention, and I clearly remember Trump saying he was going to do these things.  I guess I was hoping he wouldn't get away with it.
 
In any event, are we supposed to just sit back and say; "that's cool," because he said this was what he was going to do?

It's not cool, it flies in the face of logic and humanity.  He must be stopped.
The American people elected him.  This is what they wanted.

I know.  Sadly.

But, just because enough people to get him elected wanted him does not mean I am going to resign myself to his racist, destructive policies.

I will speak out against him.  We still have that right.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2017, 06:30:32 PM »

Offline greece666

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I understand this is a sensitive topic, so it is better to be precise.

Technically this is not a >Muslim ban> as mentioned in the title (although it can be argued that this is the Administration's intention, esp. since it reinforces the stereotype that all terrorists are Muslim).

It is more precise to say that this is a ban on the citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen. I don't know about the other countries, but Syria has a substantial Christian population, and some Persian Jews still live in Iran (though there are more in the US, and their majority now lives in Israel; wikipedia). At least on paper, this is not targeted on people of Muslim religion, rather on citizens of seven countries in crisis/civil war (although that they are all predominantly Muslim is a somehow weird coincidence).

Religious minorities (such as Christians) from these countries can still seek refugee status. This is definitely trying to target Muslims.

Green card holders are also being blocked and judged on a 'case by case' basis. This is utterly disgusting and completely indefensible. Anyone who supports this junk is nothing short of racist in my book (not you greece, just speaking in general)

@DarkAzcura

Thanks for the correction. This makes a great difference.

I would be grateful for a link.

It is unconstitutional to discriminate based on religion. I am surprised this hasn't been legally challenged yet. It is discrimination based on religion, because christians from those countries can still come to the US.

There's a simple answer to that. Christians are not becoming radical terrorist in that region.

This is not a ban on Muslims. It's a preventive measure to keep radical terrorist out of our countries.

@TrueFan

If it is a preventive measure against radical terrorists then religion is irrelevant. Being Muslim does not ipso facto make you more likely to become a terrorist.

Also, regarding the bolded part, it is factually wrong. The Kataeb Party (holds five seats in the Parliament of Lebanon) is literally fascist in its origins. Its members and leaders are responsible for several crimes in the 1980s, including a massacre condemned by the UN as an act of genocide.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #83 on: January 28, 2017, 06:36:56 PM »

Offline 2short

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I think refugee status means a two year limbo.  Could be wrong on this but feel free to check it.  If that is correct that limbo will mean lives

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #84 on: January 28, 2017, 06:41:26 PM »

Offline TrueFan

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I understand this is a sensitive topic, so it is better to be precise.

Technically this is not a >Muslim ban> as mentioned in the title (although it can be argued that this is the Administration's intention, esp. since it reinforces the stereotype that all terrorists are Muslim).

It is more precise to say that this is a ban on the citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen. I don't know about the other countries, but Syria has a substantial Christian population, and some Persian Jews still live in Iran (though there are more in the US, and their majority now lives in Israel; wikipedia). At least on paper, this is not targeted on people of Muslim religion, rather on citizens of seven countries in crisis/civil war (although that they are all predominantly Muslim is a somehow weird coincidence).

Religious minorities (such as Christians) from these countries can still seek refugee status. This is definitely trying to target Muslims.

Green card holders are also being blocked and judged on a 'case by case' basis. This is utterly disgusting and completely indefensible. Anyone who supports this junk is nothing short of racist in my book (not you greece, just speaking in general)

@DarkAzcura

Thanks for the correction. This makes a great difference.

I would be grateful for a link.

It is unconstitutional to discriminate based on religion. I am surprised this hasn't been legally challenged yet. It is discrimination based on religion, because christians from those countries can still come to the US.

There's a simple answer to that. Christians are not becoming radical terrorist in that region.

This is not a ban on Muslims. It's a preventive measure to keep radical terrorist out of our countries.

@TrueFan

If it is a preventive measure against radical terrorists then religion is irrelevant. Being Muslim does not ipso facto make you more likely to become a terrorist.

Also, regarding the bolded part, it is factually wrong. The Kataeb Party (holds five seats in the Parliament of Lebanon) is literally fascist in its origins. Its members and leaders are responsible for several crimes in the 1980s, including a massacre condemned by the UN as an act of genocide.
Religion is a part of it because radical terrorist believe in a radical interpretation of the Quran. The Christians in that area pose no harm to us. There is no risk or a fraction of a risk compared to Muslims who may be radicalized in that area. I'm sorry if that logic evades you but it's really that simple.

Trump said he would ban and stop refugees from coming over for 3-4 months during his campaign until he understood the vetting and was able to put a plan together. I'm not surprised by any of his actions. He's doing exactly what he should.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2017, 06:46:28 PM »

Offline MBunge

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I didn't vote for or like Trump but he is doing everything he said he was going to do. We're people not paying attention?

I was paying attention, and I clearly remember Trump saying he was going to do these things.  I guess I was hoping he wouldn't get away with it.
 
In any event, are we supposed to just sit back and say; "that's cool," because he said this was what he was going to do?

It's not cool, it flies in the face of logic and humanity.  He must be stopped.
The American people elected him.  This is what they wanted.

I know.  Sadly.

But, just because enough people to get him elected wanted him does not mean I am going to resign myself to his racist, destructive policies.

I will speak out against him.  We still have that right.

While you are speaking out against Trump, you might want to focus a little of your attention on the reasons Trump got elected...namely the hideous failures of the supposedly reasonable, respectable elements of our politics.

For example, if you are going to throw a hissy fit about Trump's decision on refugees, you'd have a lot more credibility if you had also been vocally critical of President Obama spending eight years ACTUALLY KILLING MUSLIMS.  And not just the "bad guys" who the intelligence community targeted for drone strikes without any real Congressional or judicial oversight, but all the innocent "collateral damage" that died along with them.

But if you were silent about Barack Obama killing Muslims, I'm not sure you should scream too loudly about Donald Trump interfering with their travel plans.

Mike

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2017, 06:47:16 PM »

Offline greece666

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@TrueFan

> I'm sorry if that logic evades you but it's really that simple.>

It took me 15 mins to answer you in a detailed way, including links to back up my claims. And the best you could come up with is the above comment. Since this is not the first time you do it, I am no longer interested in this conversation.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2017, 06:55:28 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I understand this is a sensitive topic, so it is better to be precise.

Technically this is not a >Muslim ban> as mentioned in the title (although it can be argued that this is the Administration's intention, esp. since it reinforces the stereotype that all terrorists are Muslim).

It is more precise to say that this is a ban on the citizens of seven predominantly Muslim countries: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen. I don't know about the other countries, but Syria has a substantial Christian population, and some Persian Jews still live in Iran (though there are more in the US, and their majority now lives in Israel; wikipedia). At least on paper, this is not targeted on people of Muslim religion, rather on citizens of seven countries in crisis/civil war (although that they are all predominantly Muslim is a somehow weird coincidence).

Religious minorities (such as Christians) from these countries can still seek refugee status. This is definitely trying to target Muslims.

Green card holders are also being blocked and judged on a 'case by case' basis. This is utterly disgusting and completely indefensible. Anyone who supports this junk is nothing short of racist in my book (not you greece, just speaking in general)

@DarkAzcura

Thanks for the correction. This makes a great difference.

I would be grateful for a link.

It is unconstitutional to discriminate based on religion. I am surprised this hasn't been legally challenged yet. It is discrimination based on religion, because christians from those countries can still come to the US.

There's a simple answer to that. Christians are not becoming radical terrorist in that region.

This is not a ban on Muslims. It's a preventive measure to keep radical terrorist out of our countries.

@TrueFan

If it is a preventive measure against radical terrorists then religion is irrelevant. Being Muslim does not ipso facto make you more likely to become a terrorist.

Also, regarding the bolded part, it is factually wrong. The Kataeb Party (holds five seats in the Parliament of Lebanon) is literally fascist in its origins. Its members and leaders are responsible for several crimes in the 1980s, including a massacre condemned by the UN as an act of genocide.
Religion is a part of it because radical terrorist believe in a radical interpretation of the Quran. The Christians in that area pose no harm to us. There is no risk or a fraction of a risk compared to Muslims who may be radicalized in that area. I'm sorry if that logic evades you but it's really that simple.

Trump said he would ban and stop refugees from coming over for 3-4 months during his campaign until he understood the vetting and was able to put a plan together. I'm not surprised by any of his actions. He's doing exactly what he should.

I truly feel sorry for you that you don't see the major flaws in your logic and that you will be massively disappointed by Trump's presidency, as none of what he promised will happen and most people who voted for him will be much worse off in a few years.

Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2017, 06:56:56 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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The world is already realizing that all they need to do to stop Trump is tell him to shove it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM8iWOOLlls


Re: Shame on Trump for Muslim Ban
« Reply #89 on: January 28, 2017, 07:05:25 PM »

Offline TrueFan

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@TrueFan

> I'm sorry if that logic evades you but it's really that simple.>

It took me 15 mins to answer you in a detailed way, including links to back up my claims. And the best you could come up with is the above comment. Since this is not the first time you do it, I am no longer interested in this conversation.
no loss here.