Author Topic: Trading for Vucevic (merged rumor threads)  (Read 25721 times)

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Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2017, 10:47:30 AM »

Offline saltlover

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

I think the argument is that to be a championship level team, we need the outstanding bird, so let's keep hunting for it.

Certainly Vucevic, or someone of similar quality, could be acquired next summer if nothing else materialized.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2017, 10:48:27 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

Exactly!  You summed this up perfectly.  This is exactly what I was trying to say.  And the bird may not even be in your bush.  It may be more like flying around looking for a bush to land in and you are hoping he lands in your bush and you have a chance to try and catch the bird but the bird may pick other bushes.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2017, 10:48:36 AM »

Offline bogg

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He's certainly willing to take on salary for next season, but I think it has to be for someone of higher quality than Vucevic (or a much smaller amount of salary so as to not cause a significant complication.)

Hence my point that if they're going to look at Vucevic, they'd be better off just going and getting Nurkic, who'll make a quarter of what Vucevic does next year.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2017, 10:50:24 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

I think the argument is that to be a championship level team, we need the outstanding bird, so let's keep hunting for it.

Certainly Vucevic, or someone of similar quality, could be acquired next summer if nothing else materialized.

That outstanding bird may be Brown.  It may be who we pick with the BKN 2018.  Waiting to sign the outstanding bird is one option but not one that has a track record of great success rate.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2017, 10:50:24 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

Exactly!  You summed this up perfectly.  This is exactly what I was trying to say.  And the bird may not even be in your bush.  It may be more like flying around looking for a bush to land in and you are hoping he lands in your bush and you have a chance to try and catch the bird but the bird may pick other bushes.

I just hope Melo is not flying near our bush because he doesn't help us at all. Maybe in the short run we win the first round but then it ends and we have to live with his salary and ball hog mentality. No thanks.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2017, 10:54:04 AM »

Offline max215

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Guys, this is nonsense. Sherrod has as many sources as I do.

But many sauces.

Sources: Sherrod and Chris Broussard will be launching a high-end sauces company together by mid-year. Stay tuned.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

DKC Clippers

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2017, 11:09:07 AM »

Offline bogg

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

Exactly!  You summed this up perfectly.  This is exactly what I was trying to say.  And the bird may not even be in your bush.  It may be more like flying around looking for a bush to land in and you are hoping he lands in your bush and you have a chance to try and catch the bird but the bird may pick other bushes.

I just hope Melo is not flying near our bush because he doesn't help us at all. Maybe in the short run we win the first round but then it ends and we have to live with his salary and ball hog mentality. No thanks.

Carmelo is likely an expiring contract next year and no longer makes albatross money in the new cap environment, since he signed his deal under the old CBA. He now make Paul Millsap money. You can live with that.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2017, 11:12:38 AM »

Offline CroCorvus

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The moment I saw this "rumor" I started singing:

A Sherrod Sherrod,
whatever will be will be,
the future's not ours to see,
A Sherrod Sherrod...


Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2017, 11:14:42 AM »

Offline saltlover

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

I think the argument is that to be a championship level team, we need the outstanding bird, so let's keep hunting for it.

Certainly Vucevic, or someone of similar quality, could be acquired next summer if nothing else materialized.

That outstanding bird may be Brown.  It may be who we pick with the BKN 2018.  Waiting to sign the outstanding bird is one option but not one that has a track record of great success rate.

Signing the outstanding bird has at least as good a success rate as waiting for one to develop.  The team is said bird away from championship contention as presently constructed.  Brown isn't going to be that player next year (and I really like Brown a ton, such that his jersey was the first Celtics apparel I've purchased since the rebuild started.)  The 2017 pick won't be that player next year.   And the 2018 pick by definition won't be.

Those are all great pieces to have if we're unable to get someone now (and I'm not in favor of trading any of them away for all but about 15 or so players).  If we miss out on a trade this year, a free agent next summer, and a trade at the next deadline, then they point to a future that could still be bright as players like Bradley, Smart, Thomas, and Horford leave (I'm not saying all of them go, but I expect at least one of them will before Brown and the other Brooklyn picks completely blossom.)

But the plan should be (and I believe is): Get that outstanding player.  Then fill in any last remaining holes (that may be a big, but it may not depending who is acquired).  If that player can't be found, then the goal is to keep this core together as much as possible, and mix in the youth as they become ready.  And, as needed, swap a veteran out for a veteran at a different position if the youth pushes through at one position but not another.

I would be very surprised if Vucevic, or someone of similar quality and contract status, were traded for this season without us acquiring someone like Jimmy Butler first.  I would be less surprised if the trade were in the summer, and even less at next year's deadline.

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2017, 11:15:22 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.


Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

Exactly!  You summed this up perfectly.  This is exactly what I was trying to say.  And the bird may not even be in your bush.  It may be more like flying around looking for a bush to land in and you are hoping he lands in your bush and you have a chance to try and catch the bird but the bird may pick other bushes.

I just hope Melo is not flying near our bush because he doesn't help us at all. Maybe in the short run we win the first round but then it ends and we have to live with his salary and ball hog mentality. No thanks.

Carmelo is likely an expiring contract next year and no longer makes albatross money in the new cap environment, since he signed his deal under the old CBA. He now make Paul Millsap money. You can live with that.


I can't live with it at all. How is it expiring next year?

 Knicks
$24,559,380   16-17
$26,243,760   17-18
$27,928,140   18-19 (player option)

You think he will opt out of his $28 mill next year and his no trade clause because he will make more somewhere else at what age 35???

PASS! PASS! PASS! We don't want him!!



Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2017, 11:18:44 AM »

Offline footey

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The moment I saw this "rumor" I started singing:

A Sherrod Sherrod,
whatever will be will be,
the future's not ours to see,
A Sherrod Sherrod...

That is TP funny.

Celtics talking to Magic about Vucevic
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2017, 11:21:28 AM »

Offline Bobshot

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https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/01/27/orlando-magic-rumors-boston-celtics-eyeing-nikola-vucevic/

This one comes out of Orlando and may have legs. Vucevic has a friendly contract, and might even allow another major player like Butler to be added. He's a 14/10 guy making $12-13M.

Ainge might pull the trigger if he can be had for non-starters/non-Nets picks.

Seems like a lot of options out there right now. And Butler may be on the market in a couple weeks.

Comments?

Re: Celtics talking to Magic about Vucevic
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2017, 11:23:44 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/01/27/orlando-magic-rumors-boston-celtics-eyeing-nikola-vucevic/

This one comes out of Orlando and may have legs. Vucevic has a friendly contract, and might even allow another major player like Butler to be added. He's a 14/10 guy making $12-13M.

Ainge might pull the trigger if he can be had for non-starters/non-Nets picks.

Seems like a lot of options out there right now. And Butler may be on the market in a couple weeks.

Does adding Butler + Vucevic at the deadline or this summer work under our cap space, and do you think that + Zizic and maybe Larry Sanders is a legit contender?

I'm starting to think this summer there just won't be many FA options (Hayward, Griffin and Noel staying put; Ibaka and Millsap only other real options).
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: A. Sherrod Blakely: Celtics Talking Nikola Vucevic With Magic
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2017, 11:28:47 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The moment I saw this "rumor" I started singing:

A Sherrod Sherrod,
whatever will be will be,
the future's not ours to see,
A Sherrod Sherrod...

LOL. The day A Sherrod gets a rumor right, will be the day this forum blows up.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Celtics talking to Magic about Vucevic
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2017, 11:33:45 AM »

Offline Bobshot

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https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/01/27/orlando-magic-rumors-boston-celtics-eyeing-nikola-vucevic/

This one comes out of Orlando and may have legs. Vucevic has a friendly contract, and might even allow another major player like Butler to be added. He's a 14/10 guy making $12-13M.

Ainge might pull the trigger if he can be had for non-starters/non-Nets picks.

Seems like a lot of options out there right now. And Butler may be on the market in a couple weeks.

Does adding Butler + Vucevic at the deadline or this summer work under our cap space, and do you think that + Zizic and maybe Larry Sanders is a legit contender?

I'm starting to think this summer there just won't be many FA options (Hayward, Griffin and Noel staying put; Ibaka and Millsap only other real options).

I agree the FA options may be limited for them.

I think Orlando might want a player like Zizic  along with Rozier and expiring contracts. Vucevic is young, 26, and has a favorable contract. He looks like an attractive option for the 5. Horford at the 4. Horford's sister has indicated Horford prefers to play the 4.

If Butler comes on the trade market, I expect Danny to make a strong push--offering Crowder, cap fodder and probably a Nets pick. Off hand, it looks like the cap space would work out with him and Vucevic.