Trading for Vucevic (merged rumor threads)

[hodgy03038]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

I believe Vucevic salary is like 12.7 mill/yr for 2 years. That's HALF melo salary.

But that $12.7 million would still prevent the Celtics from signing anyone other than a backup this offseason.  So, functionally, it's the same.

Ok so I am guessing you have all the numbers figured out which I don't, so if we traded Zeller who has a similar salary plus a couple other pieces which aren't too expensive - wouldn't we be in the same position as not making a trade salary-wise?

[bogg]

Eh, other national guys are confirming that the two teams talked. We know Orlando's been trying to move him all year, there's no reason to be skeptical that the Magic made a call to the team best set-up to swing a trade. 

[bogg]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

I believe Vucevic salary is like 12.7 mill/yr for 2 years. That's HALF melo salary.

But that $12.7 million would still prevent the Celtics from signing anyone other than a backup this offseason.  So, functionally, it's the same.

Ok so I am guessing you have all the numbers figured out which I don't, so if we traded Zeller who has a similar salary plus a couple other pieces which aren't too expensive - wouldn't we be in the same position as not making a trade salary-wise?

Zeller's salary is non-guaranteed next year, so if Boston is close on any major signing they can waive him. Any path to max or near-max cap space for Boston this summer happens by waiving Zeller. Vucevic takes that option off the table.

[saltlover]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

I believe Vucevic salary is like 12.7 mill/yr for 2 years. That's HALF melo salary.

But that $12.7 million would still prevent the Celtics from signing anyone other than a backup this offseason.  So, functionally, it's the same.

Ok so I am guessing you have all the numbers figured out which I don't, so if we traded Zeller who has a similar salary plus a couple other pieces which aren't too expensive - wouldn't we be in the same position as not making a trade salary-wise?

No.  Zeller's salary isn't guaranteed next year, so when people talk about having room for a max salary, they are assuming that he will be released (and thus has a salary of 0 for the Celtics next year.)

[hodgy03038]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

I believe Vucevic salary is like 12.7 mill/yr for 2 years. That's HALF melo salary.

But that $12.7 million would still prevent the Celtics from signing anyone other than a backup this offseason.  So, functionally, it's the same.

Ok so I am guessing you have all the numbers figured out which I don't, so if we traded Zeller who has a similar salary plus a couple other pieces which aren't too expensive - wouldn't we be in the same position as not making a trade salary-wise?

Zeller's salary is non-guaranteed next year, so if Boston is close on any major signing they can waive him. Any path to max or near-max cap space for Boston this summer happens by waiving Zeller. Vucevic takes that option off the table.

Okay thanks for the explanation. But personally if we weren't making a max cap space signing I would rather have Vucevic as a player than Melo. Not sure why anyone would want Melo given the fact we are talking cap space issues. Also I am not sure why Orlando is trying to move Vucevic because his salary is very good comparatively speaking. Plus wouldn't an offer to Sacramento for Cousins to include Vucevic and many other pieces be more enticing for them?

[Vermont Green]

I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.

I am not sure if Vucevic is someone who makes us better but I tend to think he is worth Zeller and a future non-BKN pick plus maybe Young?  Not sure what it would take.  To some extent he is redundant to Olynyk who may sign for more than what Vucevic is currently signed for.  Maybe we do this trade and then just let Olynyk walk.  It seems Vucevic is a bigger stronger version of Olynyk.  Not a huge upgrade, but an upgrade.

[max215]

Guys, this is nonsense. Sherrod has as many sources as I do.

[bogg]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

I believe Vucevic salary is like 12.7 mill/yr for 2 years. That's HALF melo salary.

But that $12.7 million would still prevent the Celtics from signing anyone other than a backup this offseason.  So, functionally, it's the same.

Ok so I am guessing you have all the numbers figured out which I don't, so if we traded Zeller who has a similar salary plus a couple other pieces which aren't too expensive - wouldn't we be in the same position as not making a trade salary-wise?

Zeller's salary is non-guaranteed next year, so if Boston is close on any major signing they can waive him. Any path to max or near-max cap space for Boston this summer happens by waiving Zeller. Vucevic takes that option off the table.

Okay thanks for the explanation. But personally if we weren't making a max cap space signing I would rather have Vucevic as a player than Melo. Not sure why anyone would want Melo given the fact we are talking cap space issues. Also I am not sure why Orlando is trying to move Vucevic because his salary is very good comparatively speaking. Plus wouldn't an offer to Sacramento for Cousins to include Vucevic and many other pieces be more enticing for them?

Vucevic is Zeller with much better rebounding. Boston doesn't have cap issues, they have a narrow path to just-about-max cap space this summer and any significant salary acquisition cuts that path off - that's the problem with Melo, he eats up their potential cap space. Vucevic eats up enough of it, though, that the net effect is the same - Boston can't make a star-level free agent signing. At least Carmelo gives Boston a second piece to build an offense around for the playoffs when teams throw their entire defense at Isaiah, and makes it easier to lose one or both of Avery/Jae in a Jimmy Butler trade.

[Big333223]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

He also has a very cap-friendly contract (two years remaining at $12.3 million in 2017-18 and $12.8 million in 2018-19).

As saltlover just pointed out, regardless of whether it's fair value for him it eats up about half of Boston's projected cap space this summer and taking them out of the market for any star signing. As I said, if the trade cost is the same (or even less) and you're passing on future cap space either way, I'd rather have Carmelo since all other things are equal.

And if no major free agent moves this summer (as is likely the case as it stands now) then you're passing on a deal to improve the team for no reason.

[bogg]

No thanks on Vucevic. If Danny's going to burn the possibility of max cap space this coming summer I'd rather just have Carmelo (and the trade cost would probably be less!), and if they're intent on going and getting a big banger in the paint I'd rather pick up Nurkic and maintain cap space for the summer.

He also has a very cap-friendly contract (two years remaining at $12.3 million in 2017-18 and $12.8 million in 2018-19).

As saltlover just pointed out, regardless of whether it's fair value for him it eats up about half of Boston's projected cap space this summer and taking them out of the market for any star signing. As I said, if the trade cost is the same (or even less) and you're passing on future cap space either way, I'd rather have Carmelo since all other things are equal.

And if no major free agent moves this summer (as is likely the case as it stands now) then you're passing on a deal to improve the team for no reason.

You don't have to tell me. I want to go get Carmelo for what looks like would be nothing but expirings and a non-Nets pick or two, which is possibly less than what Vucevic would cost. People are convinced that we need that cap space for Gordon Hayward (who I'm reasonably convinced is staying in Utah).

[Cman]

Guys, this is nonsense. Sherrod has as many sources as I do.

But many sauces.

[jambr380]

I can think of worse players to bring into Boston, but I would want to get a hard 'NO' from the agents of Hayward, Griffin, and (of course) KD before moving forward.

In a world where we do bring in Vuc, we would also likely lock up KO and JJ since they would no longer be cap casualties. We should also trade Amir and not Zeller since Z's non-guaranteed contract can be used for an additional trade at the beginning of the offseason (i.e., Zeller, AB, and BKN pick for Butler (I know, too much).

A world where we have IT, Butler, Crowder, Vuc, And Horfird with Smart, Brown, KO, and JJ off the bench is a pretty good world - especially with the '18 BKN pick still in hand. And let's not forget about Zizic and Yab, too.

[Cman]

I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.

Right. It is sort of like a "pretty good bird in hand" vs "an outstanding bird in the bush"

[vgulab]

We should wait until july. If we don't sign someone else with our cap space i would want DA to try to get Vucevic. But not now.

[saltlover]

I think you have to be careful about using cap space as a reason not to make a trade (in general, not just this trade).  Cap space only means you have a chance to sign someone.  There needs to be some one to sign and that person needs to want to come to Boston.  I don't foresee a big signing in the next 1-2 off seasons anyway.  We are going to run with Thomas, Horford, and whoever we can put around them.  That duo is not going to win a title; there are not going to be any Durants to sign.  We might as well trade for someone who makes us better and is on a fair contract that runs for that shorter window.

I am not sure if Vucevic is someone who makes us better but I tend to think he is worth Zeller and a future non-BKN pick plus maybe Young?  Not sure what it would take.  To some extent he is redundant to Olynyk who may sign for more than what Vucevic is currently signed for.  Maybe we do this trade and then just let Olynyk walk.  It seems Vucevic is a bigger stronger version of Olynyk.  Not a huge upgrade, but an upgrade.

I disagree.  While I don't find it likely that we'll get a major free agent this summer, because getting one is always unlikely, all of Ainge's moves since missing out on Durant have pointed to this strategy (and trading for someone during the season.)  He kept Amir and JJ rather than finding a free agent for a multi-year deal.  Zeller was signed to a 1+1 deal.  An extension for Olynyk wasn't even discussed.  Neither Young nor Hunter had their options picked up for next season.  Ainge has been saving every penny he can for this summer, to the point where he will have little trouble creating room for a max player again.

He's certainly willing to take on salary for next season, but I think it has to be for someone of higher quality than Vucevic (or a much smaller amount of salary so as to not cause a significant complication.)