Author Topic: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs  (Read 10562 times)

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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2017, 04:41:25 PM »

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs. 
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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2017, 04:56:17 PM »

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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-cavs-interested-in-rajon-rondo-jameer-nelson-deron-williams/

Cavaliers are doing their homework and are interested in Jameer Nelson, Rajon Rondo, or Deron Williams.

Rondo kind of surprises me here.. but whatever.

The thing is.. the Cavaliers really don't have a trade chip that is good enough to acquire either player (and I'm sure the only team willing to trade away their guard for cheap is the Bulls - But I'm also sure the Cavaliers feel iffy about how Rondo would fit in with this team and how good his chemistry will be with them).

Cavaliers will likely have to subtract from their bench to acquire either player, because if I'm not mistaken, all the Cavaliers have in terms of future picks (next 5 years) are 2019 and 2020 second rounders (They already gave up a 2019 first rounder for Korver three weeks ago)

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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2017, 04:58:54 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs.

Would you describe a 34 year old jack coming off major surgery as a "playmaker" would you consider chalmers that? They don't seem to be the same thing that Lebron is referencing here (although perhaps they could help out in the conditions you are listing. It just sounds like Lebron wants more than that.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2017, 05:04:22 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I could see that Chicago might want to get rid of Rondo which sucks because he would be a great backup playmaker for them. I don't know what his salary is and how it impacts their team but I cringe thinking about Rondo playing with the Cavs.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2017, 05:05:10 PM »

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I could see that Chicago might want to get rid of Rondo which sucks because he would be a great backup playmaker for them. I don't know what his salary is and how it impacts their team but I cringe thinking about Rondo playing with the Cavs.

Idk, it seems like he's a cancer in the locker room these days and I'm sure the Cavaliers FO feels really iffy about trading for him.

He could emerge as a playmaker.. or ruin the team's chemistry (big risk).
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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2017, 05:09:07 PM »

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Rondo just wouldn't fit that well, because I don't think he's interested in being a back up PG. That was the main issue with the Bulls. Either give him more minutes, or stop benching him.
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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2017, 05:21:26 PM »

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@celticsclay I'll try to answer briefly your questions

Quote
1) Short of veterans buyouts, what kind of trades can the Cavs really make?
2) Does Lebron owe some of his issues with the roster to himself having had such big influence on the roster over the last few seasons
3) If you were a teammate of Lebron and a young player like Mccrae, Felder, Liggens or just a rotation player like shumpert or Frye would this call for bodies bother you at all?

1. This is the most important question obviously. I've been saying since this summer that Love is going nowhere. If I'm right about this,  the Cavs have very little margin for a trade - certainly not a trade for an elite player.  But I'm far from being the best qualified to answer this one, I trust saltlover, BitterJim and Pho have much more interesting things to say.

2. Cleveland is Lebron's team. So, sure, he is significantly responsible for how their roster is shaped.
But I think the alleged issues of the roster are exaggerated. It's only by comparison to GSW, which is a historically elite team, that CLE's roster might be seen as lacking in some respects. Cleveland has a terrific roster.

3. No way in hell.

Overall, I think this was an emotional reaction by LBJ partly out of embarrassment for the L and partly to rally his team. I like it, it means he is determined to fight for as many more rings as he can. These playoffs will be fun.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2017, 05:27:05 PM »

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs.

Would you describe a 34 year old jack coming off major surgery as a "playmaker" would you consider chalmers that? They don't seem to be the same thing that Lebron is referencing here (although perhaps they could help out in the conditions you are listing. It just sounds like Lebron wants more than that.
Read all of his statements in context and it is clear what James is getting at (it is below).  Chalmers or Jack (if healthy) absolutely fit what he is saying.  They are guys that can help the Cavs get to the playoffs and then will hardly play.  I mean he specifically identified Raymond Felton and Michael Beasley.  Felton is playing 22 mpg and averaging 7.6/2.6/2.5.  Beasley is playing 16.5 mpg and averaging 8.8/3.6/1.1.  James isn't talking about world beaters here.  He is talking about someone that can play a few minutes here and there with the occasional spot start and that won't lose you a game.  He specifically identified Felder and Liggins as young guys that are being asked to do to much before they are ready.  It is clear he thinks the Cavs need a veteran back-up, which is what Williams would have been had he not basically retired (without actually retiring).


"We're not better than last year," he said. "From a personnel standpoint."

Meanwhile, James listed other free agents who could have been had -- Raymond Felton, who signed with the Los Angeles Clippers, and Michael Beasley, who was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks -- as players who could have helped the Cavs make it through the regular season.

"It's great to have bodies," James said. "Obviously, in the playoffs, you go down to what, eight max? And if somebody gets in foul trouble, you go to nine. You're not playing back-to-backs. You have two days in between. You're able to lock in."

"It's like when you don't have bodies. It's tough," James said. "The f---ing grind of the regular season. We're a top-heavy team. We have a top-heavy team. We top-heavy as s---. It's me, [Kyrie Irving], [Kevin Love]. It's top-heavy."

"I'm not singling out anybody," James said. "I'm not. Yeah, we won [the championship], but f---, you know what, let's see if we can do something."

He said he has already voiced his thoughts about the roster to general manager David Griffin face-to-face, and realizing how it could look to call for a point guard with Felder and DeAndre Liggins on the roster, James said it would not be fair to expect either of those young players to fill such a significant role on a title-contending team.

"We need a f---ing playmaker," James said. "I'm not saying you can just go find one, like you can go outside and see trees. I didn't say that."

"I don't know what we got to offer," James said. "I just know me, personally? I don't got no time to waste. I'll be 33 in the winter, and I ain't got time to waste. That's what I'm talking about.

"Listen, when I feel like physically and mentally, me personally, can't compete for a championship no more or I feel like I can't do it, then I won't have this problem. But until that happens, and it don't seem like no time soon ..."
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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2017, 05:29:06 PM »

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Jordan did it with pippen... and that's about it.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2017, 05:56:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs.

Would you describe a 34 year old jack coming off major surgery as a "playmaker" would you consider chalmers that? They don't seem to be the same thing that Lebron is referencing here (although perhaps they could help out in the conditions you are listing. It just sounds like Lebron wants more than that.
Read all of his statements in context and it is clear what James is getting at (it is below).  Chalmers or Jack (if healthy) absolutely fit what he is saying.  They are guys that can help the Cavs get to the playoffs and then will hardly play.  I mean he specifically identified Raymond Felton and Michael Beasley.  Felton is playing 22 mpg and averaging 7.6/2.6/2.5.  Beasley is playing 16.5 mpg and averaging 8.8/3.6/1.1.  James isn't talking about world beaters here.  He is talking about someone that can play a few minutes here and there with the occasional spot start and that won't lose you a game.  He specifically identified Felder and Liggins as young guys that are being asked to do to much before they are ready.  It is clear he thinks the Cavs need a veteran back-up, which is what Williams would have been had he not basically retired (without actually retiring).


"We're not better than last year," he said. "From a personnel standpoint."

Meanwhile, James listed other free agents who could have been had -- Raymond Felton, who signed with the Los Angeles Clippers, and Michael Beasley, who was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks -- as players who could have helped the Cavs make it through the regular season.

"It's great to have bodies," James said. "Obviously, in the playoffs, you go down to what, eight max? And if somebody gets in foul trouble, you go to nine. You're not playing back-to-backs. You have two days in between. You're able to lock in."

"It's like when you don't have bodies. It's tough," James said. "The f---ing grind of the regular season. We're a top-heavy team. We have a top-heavy team. We top-heavy as s---. It's me, [Kyrie Irving], [Kevin Love]. It's top-heavy."

"I'm not singling out anybody," James said. "I'm not. Yeah, we won [the championship], but f---, you know what, let's see if we can do something."

He said he has already voiced his thoughts about the roster to general manager David Griffin face-to-face, and realizing how it could look to call for a point guard with Felder and DeAndre Liggins on the roster, James said it would not be fair to expect either of those young players to fill such a significant role on a title-contending team.

"We need a f---ing playmaker," James said. "I'm not saying you can just go find one, like you can go outside and see trees. I didn't say that."

"I don't know what we got to offer," James said. "I just know me, personally? I don't got no time to waste. I'll be 33 in the winter, and I ain't got time to waste. That's what I'm talking about.

"Listen, when I feel like physically and mentally, me personally, can't compete for a championship no more or I feel like I can't do it, then I won't have this problem. But until that happens, and it don't seem like no time soon ..."

I mean we can kind of agree to disagree on this  if you think them signing a 34 Jack adds all that much more than them signing you personally to a contract. Jack was a below average over a year ago as a starter for the Nets.  A year older and serious injury later how does he help them at all?

Chalmers I guess could offer more, but it seems like it took Rondo about 2 years to get back to being able to do anything and he was about the same age when he tore it as Chalmers.

He very well could be specifically referencing Rondo who has a little bit more a name factor and at least put up some good stats last year.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2017, 06:18:46 PM »

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs.

Would you describe a 34 year old jack coming off major surgery as a "playmaker" would you consider chalmers that? They don't seem to be the same thing that Lebron is referencing here (although perhaps they could help out in the conditions you are listing. It just sounds like Lebron wants more than that.
Read all of his statements in context and it is clear what James is getting at (it is below).  Chalmers or Jack (if healthy) absolutely fit what he is saying.  They are guys that can help the Cavs get to the playoffs and then will hardly play.  I mean he specifically identified Raymond Felton and Michael Beasley.  Felton is playing 22 mpg and averaging 7.6/2.6/2.5.  Beasley is playing 16.5 mpg and averaging 8.8/3.6/1.1.  James isn't talking about world beaters here.  He is talking about someone that can play a few minutes here and there with the occasional spot start and that won't lose you a game.  He specifically identified Felder and Liggins as young guys that are being asked to do to much before they are ready.  It is clear he thinks the Cavs need a veteran back-up, which is what Williams would have been had he not basically retired (without actually retiring).


"We're not better than last year," he said. "From a personnel standpoint."

Meanwhile, James listed other free agents who could have been had -- Raymond Felton, who signed with the Los Angeles Clippers, and Michael Beasley, who was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks -- as players who could have helped the Cavs make it through the regular season.

"It's great to have bodies," James said. "Obviously, in the playoffs, you go down to what, eight max? And if somebody gets in foul trouble, you go to nine. You're not playing back-to-backs. You have two days in between. You're able to lock in."

"It's like when you don't have bodies. It's tough," James said. "The f---ing grind of the regular season. We're a top-heavy team. We have a top-heavy team. We top-heavy as s---. It's me, [Kyrie Irving], [Kevin Love]. It's top-heavy."

"I'm not singling out anybody," James said. "I'm not. Yeah, we won [the championship], but f---, you know what, let's see if we can do something."

He said he has already voiced his thoughts about the roster to general manager David Griffin face-to-face, and realizing how it could look to call for a point guard with Felder and DeAndre Liggins on the roster, James said it would not be fair to expect either of those young players to fill such a significant role on a title-contending team.

"We need a f---ing playmaker," James said. "I'm not saying you can just go find one, like you can go outside and see trees. I didn't say that."

"I don't know what we got to offer," James said. "I just know me, personally? I don't got no time to waste. I'll be 33 in the winter, and I ain't got time to waste. That's what I'm talking about.

"Listen, when I feel like physically and mentally, me personally, can't compete for a championship no more or I feel like I can't do it, then I won't have this problem. But until that happens, and it don't seem like no time soon ..."

I mean we can kind of agree to disagree on this  if you think them signing a 34 Jack adds all that much more than them signing you personally to a contract. Jack was a below average over a year ago as a starter for the Nets.  A year older and serious injury later how does he help them at all?

Chalmers I guess could offer more, but it seems like it took Rondo about 2 years to get back to being able to do anything and he was about the same age when he tore it as Chalmers.

He very well could be specifically referencing Rondo who has a little bit more a name factor and at least put up some good stats last year.

I think so too. Plus, I am sure Wade gave Lebron his honest opinion of Rondo. If Lebron wants Rondo, it likely is because Wade told him Rondo can help you this season.

It is possible that the Cavs are hesitant on adding Rondo and/or haggling over trading an asset or moving a contract for him, and Lebron is p---ed that they didnt add him already.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2017, 09:43:23 PM »

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs.

Would you describe a 34 year old jack coming off major surgery as a "playmaker" would you consider chalmers that? They don't seem to be the same thing that Lebron is referencing here (although perhaps they could help out in the conditions you are listing. It just sounds like Lebron wants more than that.
Read all of his statements in context and it is clear what James is getting at (it is below).  Chalmers or Jack (if healthy) absolutely fit what he is saying.  They are guys that can help the Cavs get to the playoffs and then will hardly play.  I mean he specifically identified Raymond Felton and Michael Beasley.  Felton is playing 22 mpg and averaging 7.6/2.6/2.5.  Beasley is playing 16.5 mpg and averaging 8.8/3.6/1.1.  James isn't talking about world beaters here.  He is talking about someone that can play a few minutes here and there with the occasional spot start and that won't lose you a game.  He specifically identified Felder and Liggins as young guys that are being asked to do to much before they are ready.  It is clear he thinks the Cavs need a veteran back-up, which is what Williams would have been had he not basically retired (without actually retiring).


"We're not better than last year," he said. "From a personnel standpoint."

Meanwhile, James listed other free agents who could have been had -- Raymond Felton, who signed with the Los Angeles Clippers, and Michael Beasley, who was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks -- as players who could have helped the Cavs make it through the regular season.

"It's great to have bodies," James said. "Obviously, in the playoffs, you go down to what, eight max? And if somebody gets in foul trouble, you go to nine. You're not playing back-to-backs. You have two days in between. You're able to lock in."

"It's like when you don't have bodies. It's tough," James said. "The f---ing grind of the regular season. We're a top-heavy team. We have a top-heavy team. We top-heavy as s---. It's me, [Kyrie Irving], [Kevin Love]. It's top-heavy."

"I'm not singling out anybody," James said. "I'm not. Yeah, we won [the championship], but f---, you know what, let's see if we can do something."

He said he has already voiced his thoughts about the roster to general manager David Griffin face-to-face, and realizing how it could look to call for a point guard with Felder and DeAndre Liggins on the roster, James said it would not be fair to expect either of those young players to fill such a significant role on a title-contending team.

"We need a f---ing playmaker," James said. "I'm not saying you can just go find one, like you can go outside and see trees. I didn't say that."

"I don't know what we got to offer," James said. "I just know me, personally? I don't got no time to waste. I'll be 33 in the winter, and I ain't got time to waste. That's what I'm talking about.

"Listen, when I feel like physically and mentally, me personally, can't compete for a championship no more or I feel like I can't do it, then I won't have this problem. But until that happens, and it don't seem like no time soon ..."

I mean we can kind of agree to disagree on this  if you think them signing a 34 Jack adds all that much more than them signing you personally to a contract. Jack was a below average over a year ago as a starter for the Nets.  A year older and serious injury later how does he help them at all?

Chalmers I guess could offer more, but it seems like it took Rondo about 2 years to get back to being able to do anything and he was about the same age when he tore it as Chalmers.

He very well could be specifically referencing Rondo who has a little bit more a name factor and at least put up some good stats last year.
Jack and Chalmers would absolutely be fine as a backup PG   you keep thinking that he is talking about a starter level player when he clearly wasnt.  The guy they are going to add is going to take Kay Felder's minutes and that guy is not going to be in the playoff rotation.
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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2017, 09:55:17 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Lebron is clearly whining a bit, but he isn't asking the Cavs to go out and acquire superstars.  He is asking them to sign some vets to the bench so that he can coast a bit more in the regular season.  Obviously if Smith and Anderson don't get hurt, I don't think Lebron is belly aching this much about back-ups.  I mean the Cavs back-up PG is a 5'9" rookie that was the 54th pick in the draft.  How many defending champions have someone like that as the only back-up PG on the roster?

This strikes me as James venting because he is playing a ton of minutes and he doesn't want to be out of gas come the NBA Finals.

Who can they sign though? Is there a playmaker that is out there that is an unrestricted free agent that would provide what James wants? Would the Cavs have to trade someone? Who?
Mario Chalmers and Jarret Jack are both unsigned.  They went unsigned over the summer because they were hurt.  Not sure their current injury status, but either of them would be a perfectly fine back-up PG if healthy.

Norris Cole is also available. There were reports that they are trying to trade for Rondo, I wonder if that is what Lebron is referring to. I'm sure the Bulls would be glad to move Rondo but can the Cavs make room for his salary?

It would be pretty interesting to see Rondo there. He does seem like a risk not worth taking for them though (unless the bulls cut him and he signs for waivers). Nobody has really come up with an asset they could trade for these guys aside from a 2021 first round pick or an injured smith (who the cavs probably need for the playoffs)

Jack was in camp with the Hawks and got cut for some pretty low profile options so it seems pretty doubtful he is the answer to me.

Chalmers was kind of a marginal player before tearing his ACL. Is he going to be playable as a backup for a team like the Cavs?
Chalmers was the starting PG for the Heat in their final 3 Finals appearances (he was a contributing rotation player in the first of the 4 straight).  He would be fine as a back-up playing 15 minutes a night with the occasional start when Irving gets a night off.  In the playoffs, when Irving is up to around 40 minutes a night, Chalmers playing 8 will be fine.

Jack was cut by the Hawks because he wasn't healthy enough yet.  I mean right now he is basically just a year removed from an ACL tear.  Stein from ESPN has a report a couple of weeks ago that Jack was nearing a return and would be trying out for teams in the near future.

Obviously health is the main issue with those guys, but when you are talking about such a limited role, they don't need to be as good as they were pre-injury to still be effective players on a team like the Cavs.

Would you describe a 34 year old jack coming off major surgery as a "playmaker" would you consider chalmers that? They don't seem to be the same thing that Lebron is referencing here (although perhaps they could help out in the conditions you are listing. It just sounds like Lebron wants more than that.
Read all of his statements in context and it is clear what James is getting at (it is below).  Chalmers or Jack (if healthy) absolutely fit what he is saying.  They are guys that can help the Cavs get to the playoffs and then will hardly play.  I mean he specifically identified Raymond Felton and Michael Beasley.  Felton is playing 22 mpg and averaging 7.6/2.6/2.5.  Beasley is playing 16.5 mpg and averaging 8.8/3.6/1.1.  James isn't talking about world beaters here.  He is talking about someone that can play a few minutes here and there with the occasional spot start and that won't lose you a game.  He specifically identified Felder and Liggins as young guys that are being asked to do to much before they are ready.  It is clear he thinks the Cavs need a veteran back-up, which is what Williams would have been had he not basically retired (without actually retiring).


"We're not better than last year," he said. "From a personnel standpoint."

Meanwhile, James listed other free agents who could have been had -- Raymond Felton, who signed with the Los Angeles Clippers, and Michael Beasley, who was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks -- as players who could have helped the Cavs make it through the regular season.

"It's great to have bodies," James said. "Obviously, in the playoffs, you go down to what, eight max? And if somebody gets in foul trouble, you go to nine. You're not playing back-to-backs. You have two days in between. You're able to lock in."

"It's like when you don't have bodies. It's tough," James said. "The f---ing grind of the regular season. We're a top-heavy team. We have a top-heavy team. We top-heavy as s---. It's me, [Kyrie Irving], [Kevin Love]. It's top-heavy."

"I'm not singling out anybody," James said. "I'm not. Yeah, we won [the championship], but f---, you know what, let's see if we can do something."

He said he has already voiced his thoughts about the roster to general manager David Griffin face-to-face, and realizing how it could look to call for a point guard with Felder and DeAndre Liggins on the roster, James said it would not be fair to expect either of those young players to fill such a significant role on a title-contending team.

"We need a f---ing playmaker," James said. "I'm not saying you can just go find one, like you can go outside and see trees. I didn't say that."

"I don't know what we got to offer," James said. "I just know me, personally? I don't got no time to waste. I'll be 33 in the winter, and I ain't got time to waste. That's what I'm talking about.

"Listen, when I feel like physically and mentally, me personally, can't compete for a championship no more or I feel like I can't do it, then I won't have this problem. But until that happens, and it don't seem like no time soon ..."

I mean we can kind of agree to disagree on this  if you think them signing a 34 Jack adds all that much more than them signing you personally to a contract. Jack was a below average over a year ago as a starter for the Nets.  A year older and serious injury later how does he help them at all?

Chalmers I guess could offer more, but it seems like it took Rondo about 2 years to get back to being able to do anything and he was about the same age when he tore it as Chalmers.

He very well could be specifically referencing Rondo who has a little bit more a name factor and at least put up some good stats last year.
Jack and Chalmers would absolutely be fine as a backup PG   you keep thinking that he is talking about a starter level player when he clearly wasnt.  The guy they are going to add is going to take Kay Felder's minutes and that guy is not going to be in the playoff rotation.
please don't put words in my mouth buddy. I never said that. I don't think a 34 year old jack coming off a serious injury is a playable player. I would be surprised if chalmers was being he was average to start and probably is not fully recovered. It's. It that complicated.

Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2017, 10:26:13 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Idk.. maybe we should be upset about OUR lack of depth/playmakers (especially in the frontcourt)
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Re: Lebron upset with lack of depth/playmakers on Cavs
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2017, 10:48:53 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Idk.. maybe we should be upset about OUR lack of depth/playmakers (especially in the frontcourt)

I ve whined till I'm blue in the face .....

 ;D