Celtics have no guard depth

[KG Living Legend]

@KGLL I love your posts but your logic here is faulty.

When a starter gets injured, your team takes a hit.

This doesn't mean you lack depth, it means that your starter is better than his replacement.

 You love my posts! TP Greece.

.You disagree with Me? Outlandish!

 Seriously I don't think I'm that off here.

 Smart is cool, but he's a horrible shooter and although improving you just can't rely on him to get buckets.

 Thomas is the man .

 Bradley is very good but, he's missed over 170 games in his career. That's over 2 full seasons.

 He been better the last two years but even now he's hurt. He's fragile, We have to be ready for his eventual departure.

 I say we pay Thomas, then Smart. Bradley goes when his contract is up and we draft a stud guard.

 

[greece66]

@KGLL

thanks for the reply.

I suspect this thread is less about our guard depth and more about trading Bradley and drafting Fultz/Ball. So that we have IT and Fultz/Ball as starters, and Smart coming from the bench or at the 3. (I hope I summed up your ideas correctly, if not, by all means correct me)

My main objection is that it is too early to discuss this scenario.

Let me break this down.

i. Trading Bradley. I can see this happening only if it lands us a player that gets us to contender status. Could happen but who knows.
Also, notice that if this happens the BRK17 pick is likely to be included in the deal; and, moreover, the player that comes might completely change the team's outlook/needs.

ii.It is indeed likely that we will get a guard with the BRK17 pick; but who knows who will that be.

iii. The BRK17 pick might be great, but it's not certain he will be good enough to start in his first year. For all we know now, we might get unlucky and end up picking fourth or fifth.

To sum up, trading Bradley and keeping the BRK17 pick is possible but unlikely; and IMO it's too early to make plans about how the BRK17 player will fit in the rotation.

I like the lineup you suggest and I'd like to see it in action, but I think the chances of it happening are low.

[KG Living Legend]

@KGLL

thanks for the reply.

I suspect this thread is less about our guard depth and more about trading Bradley and drafting Fultz/Ball. So that we have IT and Fultz/Ball as starters, and Smart coming from the bench or at the 3. (I hope I summed up your ideas correctly, if not, by all means correct me)

My main objection is that it is too early to discuss this scenario.

Let me break this down.

i. Trading Bradley. I can see this happening only if it lands us a player that gets us to contender status. Could happen but who knows.
Also, notice that if this happens the BRK17 pick is likely to be included in the deal; and, moreover, the player that comes might completely change the team's outlook/needs.

ii.It is indeed likely that we will get a guard with the BRK17 pick; but who knows who will that be.

iii. The BRK17 pick might be great, but it's not certain he will be good enough to start in his first year. For all we know now, we might get unlucky and end up picking fourth or fifth.

To sum up, trading Bradley and keeping the BRK17 pick is possible but unlikely; and IMO it's too early to make plans about how the BRK17 player will fit in the rotation.

I like the lineup you suggest and I'd like to see it in action, but I think the chances of it happening are low.

 I like the idea of Keeping Bradley for the duration of his contract.

 Say we hit the dream and landed Fultz. That would be absolutely ideal for me.

 Start off Fultz as the seventh man behind Smart. Have Fultz play both guard positions and groom him to eventually replace Bradley.

 However if Bradley wants to sign a somewhat team friendly deal. Say 16 million per year. I'm all for signing him and having a four guard rotation that I'm in love with.

 Plus Crowder and Brown set at SF. We have Horford, Kelly, and the two stashes coming.

 If we can just bring in one more impact big we will be styling.

[KG Living Legend]

 And if it's obvious from the jump that Fultz is incredible, then we trade Avery or Smart for a Big man.

[greece66]

@KGLL

thanks for the reply.

I suspect this thread is less about our guard depth and more about trading Bradley and drafting Fultz/Ball. So that we have IT and Fultz/Ball as starters, and Smart coming from the bench or at the 3. (I hope I summed up your ideas correctly, if not, by all means correct me)

My main objection is that it is too early to discuss this scenario.

Let me break this down.

i. Trading Bradley. I can see this happening only if it lands us a player that gets us to contender status. Could happen but who knows.
Also, notice that if this happens the BRK17 pick is likely to be included in the deal; and, moreover, the player that comes might completely change the team's outlook/needs.

ii.It is indeed likely that we will get a guard with the BRK17 pick; but who knows who will that be.

iii. The BRK17 pick might be great, but it's not certain he will be good enough to start in his first year. For all we know now, we might get unlucky and end up picking fourth or fifth.

To sum up, trading Bradley and keeping the BRK17 pick is possible but unlikely; and IMO it's too early to make plans about how the BRK17 player will fit in the rotation.

I like the lineup you suggest and I'd like to see it in action, but I think the chances of it happening are low.

 I like the idea of Keeping Bradley for the duration of his contract.

 Say we hit the dream and landed Fultz. That would be absolutely ideal for me.

 Start off Fultz as the seventh man behind Smart. Have Fultz play both guard positions and groom him to eventually replace Bradley.

 However if Bradley wants to sign a somewhat team friendly deal. Say 16 million per year. I'm all for signing him and having a four guard rotation that I'm in love with.

 Plus Crowder and Brown set at SF. We have Horford, Kelly, and the two stashes coming.

 If we can just bring in one more impact big we will be styling.

Ah OK, this means I had misunderstood your point. Thanks for the clarification.

btw, have you seen saltlover's post on our salaries and the new CBA? Our contract situation is super tight, not sure whether we can have all the players you mention and add an impact big. Actually, we will have to let Kelly walk if we want to be able to offer a max this summer.

[KG Living Legend]

 I think we are all praying that we can dump Kelly and land one of Milsap, Hayward, Blake, Noel.

 The Thomas Fultz backcourt would be lethal.
 Smart off the bench. Who could we get for Bradley?

 I'd consider trading him for a younger talented guard as well.

 If we don't play land Milsap or Blake we really need an NBA ready  4.

[2short]

When healthy our guard rotation
IT , all star
AB, all nba defense
MS, should be all nba defense
TR, good young guard, great defender, good range, just young
GG, gunner, obviously athletic, when hot will win us games

Look around the nba, that is deep.  I want rozier to get minutes now, albeit not from injuries.  Last year when thrust into role in playoffs he stepped up.  Give him more nba minutes he'll be ready.

Now if you were to say sf no depth....

[Celtics4ever]

I think we are more set at guard positions than with our bigs.  It hurts having AB out, a lot here think he is not vital to team but they are wrong.   But I think we have a huge drop off once certain bigs leave the game.    With the guards it did not seem as big as a drop off.

[dreamgreen]

LOL, that is deepest part of the team I have no idea what you are talking about?

[greece66]

 I think we are all praying that we can dump Kelly and land one of Milsap, Hayward, Blake, Noel.

 The Thomas Fultz backcourt would be lethal.
 Smart off the bench. Who could we get for Bradley?

 I'd consider trading him for a younger talented guard as well.

 If we don't play land Milsap or Blake we really need an NBA ready  4.

In that scenario, you'd have to trade Bradley for pick(s) or a player under a rookie contract. The reason is that you can't find a player of AB's calibre earning the same money, and you don't want to trade AB for someone on a more expensive contract for the reasons I explained above.

[Vermont Green]

Front court depth is much worse.    Not even one guy who can rebound.    Bigs get out played nearly every game.

Exactly.  Yes, Avery is valuable and helps us win when on the court but we have Smart Rozier Grreen.  That really is not all that bad.  When we lose a big, it is Jordan Mickey who has to step up.  Amir is barely a starting caliber player.  He would be more suited off the bench if we had real starting PF/C to play with Horford.

I am fine with picking a guard if that is the best player as it appears it will be.  I think IT and Bradley will be gone after their contracts are up anyway.  We are talking about 18 or 19 year old freshman.  They can sit a season and learn and then be part of our youth wave that starts to roll ashore in 2018-19.

[PaulAllen]

They have no depth period.

Their second unit has been underperforming all year. They lack scoring, turn the ball over and look lost most of the time .. Here is how I break it down ..

Keepers:
Smart - even though his shot selection is rather poor he does all things to make him a total team player. Plays well vs a smaller matchup. Intangibles are high and is the true leader of this unit.
Brown- starting to understand the speed of the game. Like Smart does lots of grunt work. Still is a work in progress but still deserves limited minutes.
Olynck- playing better as of late but is still the slowest player (physically and mentally ) on the court . He is lazy at times? Sometimes I think he has concrete in his sneakers.

Outside looking in: (Should not be in rotation)
Rozier - bad shot selection,  dribbles out of control , not giving up on him but the only reason he is playing is because of Bradley's injury. Otherwise should stay on the bench.
Jorebko- a one trick pony who hasnt really hit his threes this year ... Cant play defense, overpowered at the 4, foul prone... dont think he makes rotation on other contending teams.
McKey- guy is not ready for the speed of the NBA level... lost and foul prone
Green- can pull a rabbit of of his hat once in a while but cant rely on him every night ... it would be a nightmare.

The Rest:
Not even worth mentioning


My suggestion would be to find a pure shot blocking rebounding athletic big Noel or Nurkic, along with a combo Pj Tucker, Reggie Jackson, or even Mirotic

[BitterJim]

@KGLL I love your posts but your logic here is faulty.

When a starter gets injured, your team takes a hit.

This doesn't mean you lack depth, it means that your starter is better than his replacement.

 You love my posts! TP Greece.

.You disagree with Me? Outlandish!

 Seriously I don't think I'm that off here.

 Smart is cool, but he's a horrible shooter and although improving you just can't rely on him to get buckets.

 Thomas is the man .

 Bradley is very good but, he's missed over 170 games in his career. That's over 2 full seasons.

 He been better the last two years but even now he's hurt. He's fragile, We have to be ready for his eventual departure.

 I say we pay Thomas, then Smart. Bradley goes when his contract is up and we draft a stud guard.

Where are you getting that from? By my count he's missed 73 (keeping in mind the lockout-shortened season and the 81 game 2012-13 season). I didn't include his rookie season, since those were games that he missed due to not being good, not due to injury, but even then it only puts him at 124

Edit: I forgot about the playoffs! But that still only adds 15 games (10 in 2011-12 and 5 last year) to make 88 games (or adds 24 games to make 148 if you count his rookie season, but, again, he missed games due to being bad not injury so it doesn't make sense to count them)

[green_bballers13]

Outlandish and blasphemy.  We have three very good guards and a decent prospect in Rozier.  If Ball and Fultz are way ahead as prospects, then we should draft one of them if we end up with a top two pick.  But I'm hoping Tatum or Jackson stand out as that's a better team fit.

 But you just said it. "I'm hoping Jackson and Tatum stand out, there a better fit"

 And there lies the issue. The top three prospects are all guards. Point guards to be exact.

 Although both Fultz and Ball are very athletic and long so they have defensive flexibility at least.

Are you sure about this, or is this your opinion? I don't think there is a consensus #1, esp before conference championships and March madness. The top young guys are freshmen, and coming out of HS, there wasn't one that stood out completely. I still think there's a group of good freshman, and Fultz barely has the lead over Lonzo Ball.

[Granath]

Outlandish and blasphemy.  We have three very good guards and a decent prospect in Rozier.  If Ball and Fultz are way ahead as prospects, then we should draft one of them if we end up with a top two pick.  But I'm hoping Tatum or Jackson stand out as that's a better team fit.

 But you just said it. "I'm hoping Jackson and Tatum stand out, there a better fit"

 And there lies the issue. The top three prospects are all guards. Point guards to be exact.

 Although both Fultz and Ball are very athletic and long so they have defensive flexibility at least.

Are you sure about this, or is this your opinion? I don't think there is a consensus #1, esp before conference championships and March madness. The top young guys are freshmen, and coming out of HS, there wasn't one that stood out completely. I still think there's a group of good freshman, and Fultz barely has the lead over Lonzo Ball.

At this stage I don't think only "barely" has a lead over Ball. In fact I think the gap between Fultz and Ball is larger than Ball and the #3 of Jackson/Smith/Tatum (whoever you want - take your pick). There is a consensus #1 and that's Fultz. You're going to be hard pressed to find more than one or two recent mocks that don't have him in the top slot. That's the very definition of consensus.

You're right in that things can change during March Madness or even during workouts. Things can change but right now Fultz is just killing it. At this stage he's being considered a better prospect than Ben Simmons from last year.