Author Topic: The Isaiah Thomas Case  (Read 3334 times)

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The Isaiah Thomas Case
« on: January 21, 2017, 11:20:29 PM »

Offline konkmv

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The little guy is a scoring first guard..  With some defensive weaknesses..  He fits next to Bradley and crowder.
If a miracle happens and we get buttler or cousins or Hayward,  I do not see the fit.. These guys need someone to feed them.. Not someone dominating the ball..
And something else.
He does not feed our bigs enough
I like his scoring instincts and his guts
To win a championship you need s more balanced team
I know I am a minority but my opinion we will reach the next level without Thomas. 
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:45:30 PM by Redz »

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 11:35:18 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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At least spell a dude's name right.

Everything about your post spells a lack of insight, backed up by no facts or statistical analysis.

It is so clearly the post-loss sadness needing an outlet.

"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 11:40:30 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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At least spell a dude's name right.

Everything about your post spells a lack of insight, backed up by no facts or statistical analysis.

It is so clearly the post-loss sadness needing an outlet.
Geez, rather harsh there tricky.  Simply ignoring the thread is always an option. Or, maybe show him what a good opening post would look like, with sources,  etc.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 11:40:43 PM »

Offline jambr380

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At least spell a dude's name right.

Everything about your post spells a lack of insight, backed up by no facts or statistical analysis.

It is so clearly the post-loss sadness needing an outlet.

Come on, you don't like threads about Ashanti Thomas?  :P

Btw, I would not be too worried if we acquired Butler for a reasonable cost or Hayward in free agency. In fact, I would be through the roof with exhilaration!

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 11:44:04 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Yeah... And then once we add either Hayward, Butler or Cousins.. You're going to complain about virtually the same thing and demand we trade them.

SMH championship teams need MULTIPLE KEY PIECES, and Isaiah Thomas can be one of them with his premium scoring. He's also the best recruiter for this C's team. What picture does it paint if you trade him for draft picks now or just let him walk in 2018 FA despite having his Bird Rights as well.

You build around IT/Horford/Brown/Smart and Bradley/Crowder, etc.

Also IT is averaging around 6-7 assists a game. Not bad if you ask me.

Stay patient, use Nets Picks, Zizic comes over, Brown and Smart continue to grow and develop.

Reality is though, you NEED IT's scoring, and Ainge sure loves him (and why not... Dude is breaking so many records and is averaging 28 PPG now - at Larry Bird and PP34 level).
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2017, 12:31:47 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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At least spell a dude's name right.

Everything about your post spells a lack of insight, backed up by no facts or statistical analysis.

It is so clearly the post-loss sadness needing an outlet.
Geez, rather harsh there tricky.  Simply ignoring the thread is always an option. Or, maybe show him what a good opening post would look like, with sources,  etc.

You're right, Apologies.

Just get sick and tired of Isaiah bashing.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2017, 07:26:42 AM »

Offline Who

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The little guy is a scoring first guard..  With some defensive weaknesses..  He fits next to Bradley and crowder.
If a miracle happens and we get buttler or cousins or Hayward,  I do not see the fit.. These guys need someone to feed them.. Not someone dominating the ball..
And something else.
He does not feed our bigs enough
I like his scoring instincts and his guts
To win a championship you need s more balanced team
I know I am a minority but my opinion we will reach the next level without Thomas.

Agreed. He is too selfish. He is getting a big head and sharing the ball less and less over the last 18 months. I am worried as well as to how well Isaiah can play next to other scorers once they are acquired. I am not optimistic about it.

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 12:16:21 PM »

Offline greece66

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@konkmv and Who

I agree that he at times behaves selfishly: I've seen him take distant threes when guarded, go full heroball with plenty of time on the clock, and ignore open teammates.  Add to this that selfish plays (esp. when guards make them) get on my nerves a lot - that's the reason I always thought Westbrook was overhyped, for instance.

But in Thomas's case, I think he has enough good qualities that it feels unfair to focus only on his occasional bad decision making.

Also, I'm hopeful that he could adapt his game if we got a Butler or a Hayward. Thomas will never be a Stockton, but I can see him sharing the ball more in case we get a different roster.

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 12:35:42 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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@konkmv and Who

I agree that he at times behaves selfishly: I've seen him take distant threes when guarded, go full heroball with plenty of time on the clock, and ignore open teammates.  Add to this that selfish plays (esp. when guards make them) get on my nerves a lot - that's the reason I always thought Westbrook was overhyped, for instance.

But in Thomas's case, I think he has enough good qualities that it feels unfair to focus only on his occasional bad decision making.

Also, I'm hopeful that he could adapt his game if we got a Butler or a Hayward. Thomas will never be a Stockton, but I can see him sharing the ball more in case we get a different roster.

So did I.... when he had Durant on his team. He doesn't anymore, and he's the only one capable of creating his own shot consistently.

Same with Isaiah. Who on the team do you really trust to create his own shot? Horford within 8 feet? Maybe, but he's also missed a couple late layups this year that really hurt us. Smart is wild offensively, just as capable of a brow-raising bucket as he is an embarrrassong airball. KO is similar to Smart, albeit to a lesser extent. Crowder needs to be fed. Amir gets fed low, collects garbage, or chucks threes. Bradley has effectively created his own mid-range jumper consistently, and can penetrate without being erratic.

This team has a good/great offense. Only the Toronto game do I recall us not being able to make a bucket. It's the defense, and most of the time it's the opposing guard play when Bradley is out. And of course our terrible rebounding.
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Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 01:02:50 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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The little guy is a scoring first guard..  With some defensive weaknesses..  He fits next to Bradley and crowder.
If a miracle happens and we get buttler or cousins or Hayward,  I do not see the fit.. These guys need someone to feed them.. Not someone dominating the ball..
And something else.
He does not feed our bigs enough
I like his scoring instincts and his guts
To win a championship you need s more balanced team
I know I am a minority but my opinion we will reach the next level without Thomas.

Agreed. He is too selfish. He is getting a big head and sharing the ball less and less over the last 18 months. I am worried as well as to how well Isaiah can play next to other scorers once they are acquired. I am not optimistic about it.

Taking the first half or a little more of 2015, compared to this year so far, he's gone from 22ppg and 7 apg on 55% TS% to 29ppg and 6apg on 62% TS%.

I see a decent increase in usage, a substantial increase in scoring and scoring efficiency, and a small decline in creating for others.

Even if you take the past two months, he's averaging almost 32ppg and 5.8 apg, on 65% TS%.

He's shooting more efficiently than Lebron. About as efficiently as Chris Paul, Steph Curry and James Harden. And his highest-scoring games have been incredible in terms of shooting efficiency.

"Too selfish"? "Big head"?


Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 01:30:09 PM »

Offline konkmv

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At least spell a dude's name right.

Everything about your post spells a lack of insight, backed up by no facts or statistical analysis.

It is so clearly the post-loss sadness needing an outlet.
have you ever played basketball? And sorry my english is worse than your greek.... iif you think that thomas with with buttler or cousins can beat lebron or the warriors i will start talking about statistical analysis... i thought eveyone can say his mind in here without having to apologise

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2017, 01:31:50 PM »

Offline konkmv

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At least spell a dude's name right.

Everything about your post spells a lack of insight, backed up by no facts or statistical analysis.

It is so clearly the post-loss sadness needing an outlet.
have you ever played basketball? And sorry my english is worse than your greek.... iif you think that thomas with with buttler or cousins can beat lebron or the warriors i will start talking about statistical analysis... i thought eveyone can say his mind in here without having to apologise

Re: The Isaiah Thomas Case
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2017, 01:47:53 PM »

Offline konkmv

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and something else
I do like thomas.. but he is no garnett no russel no bird no shaquille no duncan... shall i say more...
And his value is lower than towns wiggins giannis davis cousins porzingis and more... after lebron and durant a next generation is coming.. and these all guys are in non playoff teams...
I do like thomas... he will keep us in a playoff spot... till a real star arrives.. but he can not lead us to championships... every top pg can create defensive problems with him as an oponent

Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2017, 01:57:49 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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The little guy is a scoring first guard..  With some defensive weaknesses..  He fits next to Bradley and crowder.
If a miracle happens and we get buttler or cousins or Hayward,  I do not see the fit.. These guys need someone to feed them.. Not someone dominating the ball..
And something else.
He does not feed our bigs enough
I like his scoring instincts and his guts
To win a championship you need s more balanced team
I know I am a minority but my opinion we will reach the next level without Thomas.

Agreed. He is too selfish. He is getting a big head and sharing the ball less and less over the last 18 months. I am worried as well as to how well Isaiah can play next to other scorers once they are acquired. I am not optimistic about it.

Taking the first half or a little more of 2015, compared to this year so far, he's gone from 22ppg and 7 apg on 55% TS% to 29ppg and 6apg on 62% TS%.

I see a decent increase in usage, a substantial increase in scoring and scoring efficiency, and a small decline in creating for others.

Even if you take the past two months, he's averaging almost 32ppg and 5.8 apg, on 65% TS%.

He's shooting more efficiently than Lebron. About as efficiently as Chris Paul, Steph Curry and James Harden. And his highest-scoring games have been incredible in terms of shooting efficiency.

"Too selfish"? "Big head"?

Good post, TP. Completely agree. Plenty of knee-jerk reactions to a pair of bad losses shortly after losing to our true division rival, the Raptors. All three games were without Bradley, not only our most accomplished defender, but also our number 2 scorer.
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Re: The isaih Thomas case
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2017, 02:07:13 PM »

Offline konkmv

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I agree that he at times behaves selfishly: I've seen him take distant threes when guarded, go full heroball with plenty of time on the clock, and ignore open teammates.  Add to this that selfish plays (esp. when guards make them) get on my nerves a lot - that's the reason I always thought Westbrook was overhyped, for instance.

But in Thomas's case, I think he has enough good qualities that it feels unfair to focus only on his occasional bad decision making.
I do agree partly with what you say... but.. when your coach asks to defend the best player all the games... you create a defensive mentality and your attacking play grows slow... see bradley... and thats what i am afraid of smart and brown... from position 2-4 we try to cover up the ass of thomas in defense and the lack of a true center... when you are focused in defense all the time you do not have the same energy in offense

Also, I'm hopeful that he could adapt his game if we got a Butler or a Hayward. Thomas will never be a Stockton, but I can see him sharing the ball more in case we get a different roster.

So did I.... when he had Durant on his team. He doesn't anymore, and he's the only one capable of creating his own shot consistently.

Same with Isaiah. Who on the team do you really trust to create his own shot? Horford within 8 feet? Maybe, but he's also missed a couple late layups this year that really hurt us. Smart is wild offensively, just as capable of a brow-raising bucket as he is an embarrrassong airball. KO is similar to Smart, albeit to a lesser extent. Crowder needs to be fed. Amir gets fed low, collects garbage, or chucks threes. Bradley has effectively created his own mid-range jumper consistently, and can penetrate without being erratic.

This team has a good/great offense. Only the Toronto game do I recall us not being able to make a bucket. It's the defense, and most of the time it's the opposing guard play when Bradley is out. And of course our terrible rebounding.