ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline

[TheSundanceKid]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

[alewilliam789]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

What?? Do you people watch or understand basketball? Honestly? You act by adding Nurkic that we would have a Nerlens Noel/Okafor situation where our bigs can't shoot because last time I checked Horford and Olynyk can still hit the 3 ball. Also very rarely in a game plan do plays call for a big to be right under the rim when a player drives to the rim. He would most likely be creeping up along the shortcorner looking to either grab a O-Reb or get the dish/oop for a dunk as IT comes from the opposite side. Often with Nurkic's physical picks and his ability to draw a defense in the PNR on switches and dives would actually open lanes for IT to get to the rim. He would essentially play Amir Johnson's role more physical and as a better rebounder and shotblocker.


He also has a nice little mid range game if you have watched him play so to say that he offers nothing outside of his game around the rim shows that few of you have actually watched him play. He's a surprisingly versatile European style game. He's young so he still has plenty of room to improve and his improvement has been haulted after he missed most of last year's offseason and training camp on a torn patellar if I remember correctly

And you say that we shouldn't create another problem with dribble penetration off of switches? Newsflash!!!! Amir Johnson, Al Horford, and to some extent Kell Olynyk all struggle with containing guards out of the pick and roll. So instead of playing a player like Amir Johnson in the rotation who hasn't shown to be a great rebounder, shotblocker, or distinguish himself as a good defender, why wouldn't we give Nurkic a chance because he can block shots, rebound, and deal with other physical centers??

[alewilliam789]

Also who the hell perpetuated this idea of his inability to contain dribble penetration off pick and rolls?? I just watched his tape against Portland with McCollum and Damian Lillard and he did a great job of staying in front of them, sliding, and using his length to force them into tough shots or kick out.

He has very good quickness for a 7'0" 280 lb center and uses his length to his advantage. He's young, cheap, cost controlled, and can be had for what should be a fair price.

Please Danny buy!!!!

[crimson_stallion]

Im being so tired of hearing people constantly obsess about every single player and big having to be able to shoot threes.

Its just such a naive and flawed perspective.

Who has won the most e recent titles? The warriors, the Cavs, the Spurs, the Mavs.

Of those teams, did Bogut shoot threes?  Did Tristan Thompson or Timofey Mozgov shoot threed?  Did Tim Duncan shoot threes? Did Tyson Chandler shoot threes?

Going further back how about Ben Wallace, or Shaq, or Dwight when he led the Magic to the finals?

You need a number of shooters on the city to space the floor,  yes.   But if you nothing but shooters you aren't winning a thing.  Lots of jumpers will generate lots of rebounds - if you have good rebounder or two on the court that's second chancr opportunities for you.  If you don't,  it's possessions for your opponent.

We have horford,  olynyk,  Jerebko - hell even Johnson is capable of hitting the open three.  Every big on our roster can. the last thing e need right now is more jump shooting big men.

Im not obsessed with the idea of Nurkic because I think we need to think nicer then that - i dont think he puts us over the edge.   But id rather him then another shooting big man.

[crimson_stallion]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

And you say that we shouldn't create another problem with dribble penetration off of switches? Newsflash!!!! Amir Johnson, Al Horford, and to some extent Kell Olynyk all struggle with containing guards out of the pick and roll. So instead of playing a player like Amir Johnson in the rotation who hasn't shown to be a great rebounder, shotblocker, or distinguish himself as a good defender, why wouldn't we give Nurkic a chance because he can block shots, rebound, and deal with other physical centers??

Amir is averaging 8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per 36 and his defensive real plus minus ranks 8th among NBA Pfs.

I feel like you're selling him short. Hes solid.

[Roy H.]

He also has a nice little mid range game if you have watched him play so to say that he offers nothing outside of his game around the rim shows that few of you have actually watched him play. He's a surprisingly versatile European style game.

It depends on how you define "nice" and "mid-range".

92% of his shots are within 10 feet of the basket. On shots between 3 feet to 10 feet, he is a career 34.6% shooter, but he's improved to 41.6% this season. On shots beyond 5 feet, he's shot 21-for-56 (37.5%) this year, making less than 0.6 such shots per game.

On shots that NBA.com considers mid-range, he has hit 27.3%, similar to his 27.5% on all jump shots.

So, he's a work in progress. I wouldn't consider it a strength.

[Ilikesports17]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

And you say that we shouldn't create another problem with dribble penetration off of switches? Newsflash!!!! Amir Johnson, Al Horford, and to some extent Kell Olynyk all struggle with containing guards out of the pick and roll. So instead of playing a player like Amir Johnson in the rotation who hasn't shown to be a great rebounder, shotblocker, or distinguish himself as a good defender, why wouldn't we give Nurkic a chance because he can block shots, rebound, and deal with other physical centers??

Amir is averaging 8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per 36 and his defensive real plus minus ranks 8th among NBA Pfs.

I feel like you're selling him short. Hes solid.

per 36 numbers are notoriously misleading and DRPM isnt too valuable as a standalone stat.

plus 8 boards per 36 isnt good if your team has 0 plus rebounders.

[Monkhouse]

I don't understand why Ainge isn't going after Bogut.

Cheap one year big that can pass, fit in our system, and block shots while rebounding at a high rate.

In 23.5 MPG he's averaging 9.1 RPG, while having one blocked shot, which would probably equate to 1.8-2.0 BPG in our defense filled with perimeter oriented stoppers.

Per 36 which I dislike using, he's averaging over 13 RPG! I would love to see him next to Horford. Even if you're fast, Bogut is pretty agile for his size, and he always seems to end up in the right spot. 

[crimson_stallion]

I don't understand why Ainge isn't going after Bogut.

Cheap one year big that can pass, fit in our system, and block shots while rebounding at a high rate.

In 23.5 MPG he's averaging 9.1 RPG, while having one blocked shot, which would probably equate to 1.8-2.0 BPG in our defense filled with perimeter oriented stoppers.

Per 36 which I dislike using, he's averaging over 13 RPG! I would love to see him next to Horford. Even if you're fast, Bogut is pretty agile for his size, and he always seems to end up in the right spot.

I understand why - the same reason id want nothing to do with him.  His getting old, is already on the decline,  and his body is as durable as a porcelain plate thats got numerous surface hairline cracks.

Too risky.  Id much rather take a chance on Nurkic myself.

[alewilliam789]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

And you say that we shouldn't create another problem with dribble penetration off of switches? Newsflash!!!! Amir Johnson, Al Horford, and to some extent Kell Olynyk all struggle with containing guards out of the pick and roll. So instead of playing a player like Amir Johnson in the rotation who hasn't shown to be a great rebounder, shotblocker, or distinguish himself as a good defender, why wouldn't we give Nurkic a chance because he can block shots, rebound, and deal with other physical centers??

Amir is averaging 8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per 36 and his defensive real plus minus ranks 8th among NBA Pfs.

I feel like you're selling him short. Hes solid.

He's solid, but people are selling short Nurkic too!! His Defensive Rating is better than Amir Johnson's 109 to 108 by Johnson and his not far behind in DBPM either ( a stat that can be highly influenced by the quality of the other defenders on the roster and Denver is not a good defensive team). I'm just saying that the people claiming that we shouldn't trade for Nurkic because of his deficiencies defensively don't know what they are talking about because of all the game tape I went and watched of him he showed to be a very good defender for such a young player. Beyond that he did a great job of being physical on the block and using his length to disturb bigs, and then in PNR switches he slid very well with guards and used his length to force them to either kick out or into tough contested shots. 

Also rebounding wise Nurkic is dramatically better. Nurkic's DRB% is 24% to Johnson's 15% and his ORB% is 12.5% to Amir's 9.2%. That's a pretty large difference

[alewilliam789]

He also has a nice little mid range game if you have watched him play so to say that he offers nothing outside of his game around the rim shows that few of you have actually watched him play. He's a surprisingly versatile European style game.

It depends on how you define "nice" and "mid-range".

92% of his shots are within 10 feet of the basket. On shots between 3 feet to 10 feet, he is a career 34.6% shooter, but he's improved to 41.6% this season. On shots beyond 5 feet, he's shot 21-for-56 (37.5%) this year, making less than 0.6 such shots per game.

On shots that NBA.com considers mid-range, he has hit 27.3%, similar to his 27.5% on all jump shots.

So, he's a work in progress. I wouldn't consider it a strength.

Yeah by no means would I consider a stength, but definitely something he can improve on. People need to understand this guy is young and has potential to be a good two way starting center!! I'm not sure why we aren't all over this guy

[crimson_stallion]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

And you say that we shouldn't create another problem with dribble penetration off of switches? Newsflash!!!! Amir Johnson, Al Horford, and to some extent Kell Olynyk all struggle with containing guards out of the pick and roll. So instead of playing a player like Amir Johnson in the rotation who hasn't shown to be a great rebounder, shotblocker, or distinguish himself as a good defender, why wouldn't we give Nurkic a chance because he can block shots, rebound, and deal with other physical centers??

Amir is averaging 8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per 36 and his defensive real plus minus ranks 8th among NBA Pfs.

I feel like you're selling him short. Hes solid.

per 36 numbers are notoriously misleading and DRPM isnt too valuable as a standalone stat.

plus 8 boards per 36 isnt good if your team has 0 plus rebounders.

The Per 36 numbers are not misleading when it's a player like Amir, who has been putting up at or above those same Per 36 numbers for 10+ years straight.  This year he is averaging 11/8/1.3 and for his 12 year career he's averaging 12/9/1.7 - it's hardly a random fluke.

Likewise DRPM is quite valuable when it's a guy who has been dominating that stat for years on end, on multiple teams.  He was dominating advanced defensive stats when he was in Toronto, and when he came over to Boston nothing changed - he's still dominating them.

I also agree that 8 rebounds per 36 is not, by any means, a good number - but it's passable and a hell of a lot better then what most out other bigs are giving us. 

Plus it's not his overall rebounding that makes him valuable, it's his offensive rebounding.  He's averaging 3 offensive rebounds Per 36 minutes, which is actually a very good number - and again he's been doing that his entire forever (3.4 Off Reb Per 36 for his career).  As a team that takes among the highest number of three point attempts in the league, offensive rebounding is critical.

Amir is a very good defensive player who also rebounds extremely well on the offensive end, has very high basketball IQ (always makes the right play), hustles hard on both ends, and is extremely efficient on offence.  His health issues have limited him from playing major minutes, and that limits him really to just being a role player, but when he's on the court he almost always has a positive impact in one area or other.

[crimson_stallion]

I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

You do realize we suck at rebounding.  Right?

So we should bring in guys who suck at shooting instead?

It isn't "this can can shoot, this guy can rebound, this guy can play defense and this guy can pass, now we have a team!" We need guys that can do multiple things. The most important things for a big on our team are to contain dribble penetration, have the ability to switch onto guards and be able to spread the floor. As it stands we seem to lack rebounding as a strength from our guys so it would be nice to find an upgrade in that area but not at the expense of the above points.

do not fix a problem by creating another one

If we brought in Nurkic we would suddenly find ITs efficiency go down because he'd have a big guy waiting for him everytime he drove to he basket. You'd be nullifying our biggest offensive threat just to add a few rebounds to our total.

If you want a cheap option for this year then champion Bogut. If you want to look longer term then look at guys like Davis (shoot for the stars) or Henson

And you say that we shouldn't create another problem with dribble penetration off of switches? Newsflash!!!! Amir Johnson, Al Horford, and to some extent Kell Olynyk all struggle with containing guards out of the pick and roll. So instead of playing a player like Amir Johnson in the rotation who hasn't shown to be a great rebounder, shotblocker, or distinguish himself as a good defender, why wouldn't we give Nurkic a chance because he can block shots, rebound, and deal with other physical centers??

Amir is averaging 8 rebounds and 1.3 blocks per 36 and his defensive real plus minus ranks 8th among NBA Pfs.

I feel like you're selling him short. Hes solid.

He's solid, but people are selling short Nurkic too!! His Defensive Rating is better than Amir Johnson's 109 to 108 by Johnson and his not far behind in DBPM either ( a stat that can be highly influenced by the quality of the other defenders on the roster and Denver is not a good defensive team). I'm just saying that the people claiming that we shouldn't trade for Nurkic because of his deficiencies defensively don't know what they are talking about because of all the game tape I went and watched of him he showed to be a very good defender for such a young player. Beyond that he did a great job of being physical on the block and using his length to disturb bigs, and then in PNR switches he slid very well with guards and used his length to force them to either kick out or into tough contested shots. 

Also rebounding wise Nurkic is dramatically better. Nurkic's DRB% is 24% to Johnson's 15% and his ORB% is 12.5% to Amir's 9.2%. That's a pretty large difference

I don't disagree - Nurkic has strengths in areas that we desperately in need a 'buff' in, and if we can't get our hands on a bigger name player then I'd be perfectly happy with us picking up Nurkic on the cheap if we can.  He offers skills we really don't have right now, so he'd be a perfect fit regardless of whether we started him (alongside Horford) or brought him off the bench (alongside Olynyk or Jerebko).