Author Topic: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline  (Read 12896 times)

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Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2017, 06:15:28 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2017, 06:18:09 PM »

Offline vgulab

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I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2017, 06:19:53 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2017, 06:21:13 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I'm a big fan of Nurkic. BUT, I don't think he would give us anything that Zizic can't give us, and I think we need a center with much better lateral quickness than he has.

Not sure we can pencil in Zizic for 16/11 (what Nurkic averages in starter minutes) the way you could with Nurkic.

On the turnover issue - isn't that one of the more fixable problems someone could have, especially at age 22?

Heck, Terry Rozier is older than Nurkic and his flaws are far more worrisome.

He's also cost-controlled for this year and next.

I think if the price is right (meaning Rozier and a non-lottery draft pick or two), it's a good move. Helps our rotation, carries little long-term cost.

Can we pencil Nurkic in for that production? Extrapolating per-36 numbers seems extremely optimistic. He's yet to average above 8.6 points or 6.2 rebounds.

I'd be fine with paying a modest price, but I think we should limit our expectations.

I didn't extrapolate per-36 numbers. Those are his numbers (15/12 actually) when he plays starter minutes (30-39).

Even if you look at more reasonable number for a player with his physical profile, when playing 20-29 minutes he averages 11 and 8.

Taking the entire spectrum of minutes played, his per-minute production does not decline when he plays more minutes.

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2017, 06:22:32 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I'd love to add him, but I just don't think that he's Stevens' type of player. Too old school.

Other players that I don't see wanted by Stevens for various reasons (irrespective of salary/contracts), that I'd like to have here:

Boogie,
Monroe,
Drummond,
Fareid,
Noel,
Okafor.

Time will tell. I just think that Stevens doesn't value rebounding as much as many on here do, including me. Different era...yeah, I get it. I don't like it, but I get it.



Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2017, 06:24:30 PM »

Offline Geo123

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I hope we go in a more athletic direction.  The only way I want him is if we get another player in the deal who is better like a Gallo Nurkic for Zeller and filler with some picks, not the Brooklyn tossed in.

That would get you Nurkic but not Gallo and definitely not both.   Plus I don't want Gallo, he's a shooter and a poor rebounder plus a FA next year.  How does that help us out?

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2017, 06:29:04 PM »

Offline vgulab

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I don't think DA would be interested in Nurkic. Really solid center but not mobile enough. With BS system mobility is very important for big guys. Jokic would fit much better but he is untouchable i think but if Faried became availiable that would get DA attention. Faried doesn't have secured starting spot, plays only 22 mpg so i think maybe they will trade him. DA would be interested because Faried is signed on a solid deal, he is mobile, he rebounds so he can get Amir's minutes if Horford plays the 5.

edit: if Faried is on the trade block i would offer Amir, Rozier + Grizz/Clips pick

I agree. We need a center with great lateral mobility on defense.

Why Faried though, he's like 6'7-6'8, i.e. not a true big.

I know he is small, that is why i said that if Horford play the 5, Faried could play the 4. But if BS and DA plan to continue to play Horford as a 4 than we need center like Noel. Who is mobile enough to switch on defense plus being a good rebounder

Yeah, I'd rather play Crowder at the 4 if we move Horford to the 5. At least Crowder can spread the floor.

Faried can't spread the floor but averages 8 reb in 22 min and 13 reb per 36 min. I agree Faried isn't perfect option but better fit with the team than Nurkic. All i'm saying is that if Nuggets are puting players on trade block we should keep and eye on Faried

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2017, 06:41:58 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I'd love to add him, but I just don't think that he's Stevens' type of player. Too old school.

Other players that I don't see wanted by Stevens for various reasons (irrespective of salary/contracts), that I'd like to have here:

Boogie,
Monroe,
Drummond,
Fareid,
Noel,
Okafor.

Time will tell. I just think that Stevens doesn't value rebounding as much as many on here do, including me. Different era...yeah, I get it. I don't like it, but I get it.

Nobody wants Monroe other than message board posters, but I basically agree with the rest of your list.  If the price was right in a trade though, I think we might take a hard look at Drummond.  You're right in that he's not really a Stevens guy, but DA is ultimately the one calling the shots and he is a pure value guy.  Drummond is the only real difference maker on that list, especially with the hack-a-Shaq changes.

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2017, 06:58:41 PM »

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I'm a big fan of Nurkic. BUT, I don't think he would give us anything that Zizic can't give us, and I think we need a center with much better lateral quickness than he has.

Not sure we can pencil in Zizic for 16/11 (what Nurkic averages in starter minutes) the way you could with Nurkic.

On the turnover issue - isn't that one of the more fixable problems someone could have, especially at age 22?

Heck, Terry Rozier is older than Nurkic and his flaws are far more worrisome.

He's also cost-controlled for this year and next.

I think if the price is right (meaning Rozier and a non-lottery draft pick or two), it's a good move. Helps our rotation, carries little long-term cost.

Can we pencil Nurkic in for that production? Extrapolating per-36 numbers seems extremely optimistic. He's yet to average above 8.6 points or 6.2 rebounds.

I'd be fine with paying a modest price, but I think we should limit our expectations.

I didn't extrapolate per-36 numbers. Those are his numbers (15/12 actually) when he plays starter minutes (30-39).

Even if you look at more reasonable number for a player with his physical profile, when playing 20-29 minutes he averages 11 and 8.

Taking the entire spectrum of minutes played, his per-minute production does not decline when he plays more minutes.

Well, as an actual starter he's averaging 9.8 points and 7.3 rebounds.

This year, he's played 30+ minutes in only one game. It stands to figure that he gets more minutes when he's playing well, so projecting any stat line based upon the limited numbers of games he gets extended playing time seems faulty.


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Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2017, 07:00:12 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Plus I don't want Gallo, he's a shooter and a poor rebounder plus a FA next year.  How does that help us out?

Have you watched us having trouble scoring at times?   

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2017, 08:16:14 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I'm a big fan of Nurkic. BUT, I don't think he would give us anything that Zizic can't give us, and I think we need a center with much better lateral quickness than he has.

Not sure we can pencil in Zizic for 16/11 (what Nurkic averages in starter minutes) the way you could with Nurkic.

On the turnover issue - isn't that one of the more fixable problems someone could have, especially at age 22?

Heck, Terry Rozier is older than Nurkic and his flaws are far more worrisome.

He's also cost-controlled for this year and next.

I think if the price is right (meaning Rozier and a non-lottery draft pick or two), it's a good move. Helps our rotation, carries little long-term cost.

Can we pencil Nurkic in for that production? Extrapolating per-36 numbers seems extremely optimistic. He's yet to average above 8.6 points or 6.2 rebounds.

I'd be fine with paying a modest price, but I think we should limit our expectations.

I didn't extrapolate per-36 numbers. Those are his numbers (15/12 actually) when he plays starter minutes (30-39).

Even if you look at more reasonable number for a player with his physical profile, when playing 20-29 minutes he averages 11 and 8.

Taking the entire spectrum of minutes played, his per-minute production does not decline when he plays more minutes.

Well, as an actual starter he's averaging 9.8 points and 7.3 rebounds.

This year, he's played 30+ minutes in only one game. It stands to figure that he gets more minutes when he's playing well, so projecting any stat line based upon the limited numbers of games he gets extended playing time seems faulty.

I'm using his career totals, not his numbers this year.

And I understand the selection bias on minutes, but the data don't support it. If that were true, his per-36 figures would be better when he plays more. They're the same.

And if you take the starter numbers you quote above (which are, at least on a game-by-game basis, not subject to the "plays more minutes when playing well" bias), they come out to...you guessed it. 15 and 12 per-36.

Zero evidence that his productivity changes based on minutes played. Or starting vs. not. None.

Like anyone who understands what per-36 numbers are for, I'm not projecting performance. I'm describing it.

And if you want to say "yeah but he'd never play more than 20 minutes," fine. But then the question is whether Zizic's per-20 performance would match Nurkic's.

And just to get out of the weeds: I love Zizic and hope he ends up a better player than Nurkic. Perhaps he'd come in at age 21 and give us 10 and 7 in 22 minutes a game. I'm just saying that it's a lot to expect of someone who's never played a minute of NBA ball.

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2017, 08:37:39 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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But then the question is whether Zizic's per-20 performance would match Nurkic's.

And just to get out of the weeds: I love Zizic and hope he ends up a better player than Nurkic. Perhaps he'd come in at age 21 and give us 10 and 7 in 22 minutes a game. I'm just saying that it's a lot to expect of someone who's never played a minute of NBA ball.

I agree folks here are going to hate him if he is not the savior in the low post.   It will be hard to beat Nurkic out as a rookie.

Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2017, 08:38:49 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I suppose one way to look at this this way - who would we rather have on the current celtics, nurkic or Amir? I would roll the dice on nurkic if that were the choice.
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Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2017, 10:09:45 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I suppose one way to look at this this way - who would we rather have on the current celtics, nurkic or Amir? I would roll the dice on nurkic if that were the choice.

We might not even face that tradeoff. The question might be, would you rather have Zeller as your backup center with Terry Rozier as the 3rd PG, or Nurkic as your backup center with Demetrius Jackson as the 3rd PG?




Re: ESPN: Nurkic to be traded by deadline
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2017, 10:24:40 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I suppose one way to look at this this way - who would we rather have on the current celtics, nurkic or Amir? I would roll the dice on nurkic if that were the choice.

We might not even face that tradeoff. The question might be, would you rather have Zeller as your backup center with Terry Rozier as the 3rd PG, or Nurkic as your backup center with Demetrius Jackson as the 3rd PG?

These are good points, but there is just something really uninspiring about Nurkic.

Unless Nurkic has this unlocked potential that I just do not know about (certainly possible), I am not sure I even want to think about re-signing him to a huge deal during the big offseason of IT/AB/Smart.

I know Amir has his flaws, but I still like the idea of keeping him around with something like the room exception when we go over the salary cap this off-season.