Author Topic: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)  (Read 21913 times)

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Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite Star company
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2017, 01:07:32 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.

 In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..

He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.

Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!

You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.

Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship.  Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.

Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI


Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.

In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:

Fox  20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs

Ball   14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)

Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.

Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.

Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.

I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2017, 02:56:20 AM »

Offline LilRip

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When people compare him to J Kidd, do they take into account his defensive ability? Because Kidd was dominant defensively as well. Is Ball a dominant defensive player? Or are people just talking about passing ability?
- LilRip

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2017, 02:59:26 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I heard this song before.

I remember people comparing Okafor to Tim Duncan.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2017, 03:39:10 AM »

Offline bopna

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I just hate that the top of this class are 2 guards...wow just what we need...a logjam at the guard position...booooo

Superstar potentials or not we need to GO BIG...unfortunately the bigs in this draft are as soft as Olynyk.

Wake me up when James Harden and Russel Westbrook...both tearing up the league...both guards have won a championship by being the cornerstone.....oh wait Fultz and Ball are not even goin to sniff the kind of ceiling we see from RS and Harden....im sad now.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite Star company
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2017, 03:46:08 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.

 In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..

He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.

Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!

You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.

Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship.  Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.

Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI


Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.

In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:

Fox  20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs

Ball   14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)

Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.

Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.

Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.

I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
Fox absolutely raises his teammates games.  They're a different team offensively when he's off the court.  In yesterday's game against South Carolina, Kentucky had built up about a 20 point lead in the 1st half when Fox left the game with a twisted ankle.  The Kentucky offense collapsed and lost most of that lead by half time.  Calapari ended up having to call the plays from the sideline to get their half court offense to be functional. 

Fox did outplay Ball in their matchup.  Fox actually guarded Ball whereas Ball usually wasn't guarding Fox.  If Fox could shoot better, he'd definitely be on the level of Ball and Fultz.  He's a better athlete and a better defender. 

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite Star company
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2017, 04:07:53 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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If we take Ball within the top 2 picks I will be very p---ed. The guy is a bust waiting to happen. Bar none Fultz is the best player in the draft and it shouldn't be a question of who we draft at 1 if we get the pick.

If we get 2 we take either Tatum or trade it

Most GMs disagree with your assessment. Think I have more faith in their view.

Hey hopefully he ends up panning out because I don't root for players to do bad. He struggles defensively, can't create enough for himself to finish around the rim, and overall I don't see it beyond a serviceable starter/role player which is not a hit with 1 overall. I certainly disagree with the Jason Kidd passing with Curry shooting.

That's also fine because GMs also drafted Greg Oden above KD, Sam Bowie above Jordan, took Johnny Flynn and Rubio over Curry, and countless other mistakes.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2017, 03:54:38 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Evan Turner is probably his floor...



 His floor is much better than Turner's prime. He's the second coming of Kidd. Accept it.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2017, 04:18:48 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I'm truly shocked Ball made tier 1. I really like him, but it's more intangibles than the product on the court to be honest. Fultz is way more NBA ready than this kid.

Is there a link to this? I'm having a hard time believing the OP haha. Where is LarBrrd's insight on this. He's the expert on the tiers.
They didn't "lose" Teague -- they got rid of him because Schroder made him redundant. Other than that, they replaced Horford with Howard. Injuries or no injuries, our roster is not any more superior than it was last season. Probably less.

-Koz

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2017, 04:24:43 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Evan Turner is probably his floor...



 His floor is much better than Turner's prime. He's the second coming of Kidd. Accept it.

Jason Kidd was a much better athlete/defender and a much worse shooter. This is honestly a really dumb comparison.


Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2017, 04:26:57 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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When people compare him to J Kidd, do they take into account his defensive ability? Because Kidd was dominant defensively as well. Is Ball a dominant defensive player? Or are people just talking about passing ability?



 Kidd's defense and energy level were Superior. No question.

 Kidd was at almost 4 SPG. But Ball does get a lot more blocks than Kidd.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2017, 04:56:45 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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From what I've seen, Ball's defense is great in transition and when he's really locked up 1 on 1 with guys.  Excellent at using his length to contest shots.  He's also good at getting in passing lanes and getting deflections.  On the down side his attention seems to wander and he has a tendency to lose his man when he's off the ball.

I think he's got good upside defensively, but he definitely needs some work.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2017, 05:03:39 PM »

Offline ConnerHenry

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was listening to Don Maclean, ex-NBA player and UCLA great. The topic turned to Ball vs Fultz. He said that in his travels he's asked about 8 NBA execs this question and each one selected Fultz. While both have very bright futures, Fultz is by far the favorite

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2017, 05:14:49 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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From what I've seen, Ball's defense is great in transition and when he's really locked up 1 on 1 with guys.  Excellent at using his length to contest shots.  He's also good at getting in passing lanes and getting deflections.  On the down side his attention seems to wander and he has a tendency to lose his man when he's off the ball.

I think he's got good upside defensively, but he definitely needs some work.

He's great at everything in transition for sure, both sides of the ball. But defensively he's a mess on ball when he's guarding guys with any sort of speed and handle.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite Star company
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2017, 06:05:08 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.

 In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..

He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.

Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!

You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.

Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship.  Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.

Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI


Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.

In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:

Fox  20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs

Ball   14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)

Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.

Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.

Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.

I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
Fox absolutely raises his teammates games.  They're a different team offensively when he's off the court.  In yesterday's game against South Carolina, Kentucky had built up about a 20 point lead in the 1st half when Fox left the game with a twisted ankle.  The Kentucky offense collapsed and lost most of that lead by half time.  Calapari ended up having to call the plays from the sideline to get their half court offense to be functional. 

Fox did outplay Ball in their matchup.  Fox actually guarded Ball whereas Ball usually wasn't guarding Fox.  If Fox could shoot better, he'd definitely be on the level of Ball and Fultz.  He's a better athlete and a better defender.

Fox was on Ball less than half the time. Do you know who switched onto Ball..... a lot? Bam. Remember that 3 from downtown Lexington (KY) to end the first half by Ball. That was over Bam.

And Fox may be a better athlete and have the physical tools to be a better defender, but he isn't yet. Steals, blocks and positionallly because of his superior to Fox's court awareness make Ball the better defender right now.

Fox is quicker and more athletic.. Ball is the better basketball player.

Re: Lonzo Ball is in Super Elite company
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2017, 06:17:11 PM »

Online jambr380

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Evan Turner is probably his floor...

I love Turner and what he did in Boston, but honestly Evan Turner's floor after being picked #2 is Evan Turner now.

I would not be happy with Evan Turner with the #2 pick in this draft. Hopefully we either take the right guy or trade the pick for a more 'guaranteed' player.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 10:52:42 PM by jambr380 »