Author Topic: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)  (Read 91721 times)

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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #210 on: March 16, 2017, 05:03:12 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #211 on: March 16, 2017, 03:18:06 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.




 Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?

 Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.

 Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.

 You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #212 on: March 16, 2017, 03:28:50 PM »

Offline playdream

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.




 Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?

 Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.

 Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.

 You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
Ball is nowhere near those two...

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #213 on: March 16, 2017, 03:59:29 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.




 Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?

 Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.

 Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.

 You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #214 on: March 16, 2017, 04:28:40 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.




 Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?

 Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.

 Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.

 You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.



 He's a Tier 1 prospect. There has only been 9 I believe in the last ten years.

 Nobody is a sure thing, but he's a close as your going to get. He's the #2 prospect in a loaded draft.

 Who would you take #2?

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #215 on: March 16, 2017, 04:58:51 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.




 Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?

 Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.

 Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.

 You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.



 He's a Tier 1 prospect. There has only been 9 I believe in the last ten years.

 Nobody is a sure thing, but he's a close as your going to get. He's the #2 prospect in a loaded draft.

 Who would you take #2?
This is what was written about a month ago:

"This year, there is still a major question among NBA scouts and GMs about whether there are any Tier 1 prospects. Most of the NBA people I spoke with were hesitant to make the call just yet and said they won't be sure until we get closer to the draft. However, Ball and Fultz have very high ceilings and pretty high floors. They received enough votes to rank here, despite a number of GMs and scouts ranking them as Tier 2 players.
Fultz's all-around game, athleticism and versatility make him a virtually can't-miss prospect. Ball's unique combination of size and court vision have some scouts comparing him to Jason Kidd with a jump shot.

"I'm not sure there are superstars in this draft," one GM said. "I'm not sure I see the guy that turns around a franchise. But both Ball and Fultz have that potential. The position that they play and the lack of great, young point guards right now in the league give them that potential. They could really lead a new generation of big, multi-positional point guards.""

keep in mind, at this point Harry Giles was a tier 2 prospect and Tatum, like Fultz and Ball split tier 1 and tier 2 votes. The gap wasnt huge even then. Lets not call Ball a tier 1 prospect untill he is one.

Then Tatum shot 38% from 3 on 4+ 3s per game and carried Duke to an ACC championship.

Id take either Jackson or Tatum 2nd. Im really starting to fall in love with Tatum's game. I worry about Jacksons shooting, but Balls weird jumper, defensive shortcomings and his inability to create his own shot really worry me.

I dont think theres really any gap at 2-4. Cant go wrong with any of those guys 3 terrific prospects.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #216 on: March 16, 2017, 05:06:25 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Lonzo has to be great .

 There is no way his father Lavar could destroy Micheal Jordon in his day and his son not turn out to be great.

Listen to Lavar .... ;D


Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #217 on: March 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.




 Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?

 Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.

 Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.

 You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.



 He's a Tier 1 prospect. There has only been 9 I believe in the last ten years.

 Nobody is a sure thing, but he's a close as your going to get. He's the #2 prospect in a loaded draft.

 Who would you take #2?
This is what was written about a month ago:

"This year, there is still a major question among NBA scouts and GMs about whether there are any Tier 1 prospects. Most of the NBA people I spoke with were hesitant to make the call just yet and said they won't be sure until we get closer to the draft. However, Ball and Fultz have very high ceilings and pretty high floors. They received enough votes to rank here, despite a number of GMs and scouts ranking them as Tier 2 players.
Fultz's all-around game, athleticism and versatility make him a virtually can't-miss prospect. Ball's unique combination of size and court vision have some scouts comparing him to Jason Kidd with a jump shot.

"I'm not sure there are superstars in this draft," one GM said. "I'm not sure I see the guy that turns around a franchise. But both Ball and Fultz have that potential. The position that they play and the lack of great, young point guards right now in the league give them that potential. They could really lead a new generation of big, multi-positional point guards.""

keep in mind, at this point Harry Giles was a tier 2 prospect and Tatum, like Fultz and Ball split tier 1 and tier 2 votes. The gap wasnt huge even then. Lets not call Ball a tier 1 prospect untill he is one.

Then Tatum shot 38% from 3 on 4+ 3s per game and carried Duke to an ACC championship.

Id take either Jackson or Tatum 2nd. Im really starting to fall in love with Tatum's game. I worry about Jacksons shooting, but Balls weird jumper, defensive shortcomings and his inability to create his own shot really worry me.

I dont think theres really any gap at 2-4. Cant go wrong with any of those guys 3 terrific prospects.




 I also love Tatum right now. Jackson is cool too but more of a liability than Balls father.

 It's a fantastic debate. I think this team could really use Tatum's talent. I think the pick will end up being Tatum or Ball.

 And that makes me very happy either way.

 Ball https://youtu.be/UIaQhMKFxWc

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #218 on: March 16, 2017, 06:28:26 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 I'm absolutely thrilled about Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson being the top four prospects.

 We literally can't lose. The point I want to make is, Ball would fit in seamlessly. He's not selfish at all.

 The ball doesn't stick with Ball like It does with Rondo. He keeps the Ball moving and advances it whenever possible.

 He knows every player on the team better than they know themselves. That's what makes you a Basketball Genius. Which he is.

 Again I'd be thrilled with any of the top Four.

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #219 on: March 16, 2017, 08:20:20 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #220 on: March 17, 2017, 04:12:33 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/ainge-i-would-never-hold-players-family-against-him

Ainge truthful?


 TP Tri-B. I said the same thing. I'm not going to let some attention seeking dad affect his draft status.

 If he's my pick in Taking him without hesitation.


 This video is good if you want a closer look at their family.

 https://youtu.be/LEth-eCI8Lg
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 04:29:55 AM by KG Living Legend »

Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #221 on: March 17, 2017, 06:21:18 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/ainge-i-would-never-hold-players-family-against-him

Ainge truthful?


 TP Tri-B. I said the same thing. I'm not going to let some attention seeking dad affect his draft status.

 If he's my pick in Taking him without hesitation.


 This video is good if you want a closer look at their family.

 https://youtu.be/LEth-eCI8Lg
I would definitely ask Lonzo about it in the interviews to see how he responds.  I would pass on Lonzo if he appears to be "a chip of the old block".  That being said, Lonzo has fit right in at UCLA taking over control of the team without any issues.  He seems to have a very different personality from his father. 


Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #223 on: March 17, 2017, 02:54:01 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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here is an interesting article on ball's shooting. for me, one point worth considering on his unorthodox style is this:

"The step-back jumper is an aesthetically beautiful shot, especially this dagger against Oregon. But he doesn’t have many other shots off the dribble in his arsenal. Of his 53 attempts, 26 of them were step-backs, 17 were dribbling going toward his left, and 10 were straight pull-ups. None came going toward his right....Ball is constantly trying to go left."

https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41#.c6gmrmtxt

it is a good article and lays out ball's strengths and questions on offense. one sections talks about how the type of ball affects his shooting.

but, nothing is in the article on my biggest question on ball...his defense. sorry.  ;D
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (Merged)
« Reply #224 on: March 17, 2017, 03:18:25 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.

The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.

Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.

I think guys like Harden and Westbrook are harder for their own teammates to deal with. With a guy like Harden or Westbrook you need to build your whole team around them and their style of play. If they aren't getting their touches they become unhappy. I think there is a reason Westbrook or Harden have never been on a championship team and that's due to their ball dominant style of play.