Trade Idea: Jokic and Gallanari for Amir, Jonas, and Brooklyn #1 2017?

[Surferdad]

Jokic has more value than BK17

Sorry but this is 100% false. Like not even close.

So basically you are saying if Jokic was in the draft he would be by far and away the #1 draft prospect?

Not even close bud

This.  Geez there's a even hesitation to trade that pick (plus other stuff) for Cousins.

Obviously some people thing that Jokic > Cousins

Some people think that Elvis is alive.....

He's not better than Cousins right now, but he's not that far behind.  He's also younger, on a better contract, and not a headcase.

Back that up.  I'm not being contrary but sincerely would like to see the evidence.

[konkmv]

jokic is not worth the pick... period
get serious

[Quetzalcoatl]

Jokic has more value than BK17

Sorry but this is 100% false. Like not even close.

So basically you are saying if Jokic was in the draft he would be by far and away the #1 draft prospect?

Not even close bud

This.  Geez there's a even hesitation to trade that pick (plus other stuff) for Cousins.

I would love to trade for Jokic, but I promise you, Denver isn't going to move him unless its for a truly absurd offer.  Young centers like him are rarer than #1 picks

[td450]

Here's what I would do.

Give Denver the right to swap for the Brooklyn 17 pick with their pick plus Kelly Olynyk for Jokic right now. That's a fair exchange for both teams.

[Endless Paradise]

Denver says no immediately. They can only hope that whoever they draft with the 1st pick is as good as Jokic has been after just two years in the league -- and that was after being drafted 41st overall. Let alone throwing in Gallo for free.

[chilidawg]

Jokic has more value than BK17

Sorry but this is 100% false. Like not even close.

So basically you are saying if Jokic was in the draft he would be by far and away the #1 draft prospect?

Not even close bud

This.  Geez there's a even hesitation to trade that pick (plus other stuff) for Cousins.

Obviously some people thing that Jokic > Cousins

Some people think that Elvis is alive.....

He's not better than Cousins right now, but he's not that far behind.  He's also younger, on a better contract, and not a headcase.

Back that up.  I'm not being contrary but sincerely would like to see the evidence.

Jokic has a slightly better rebounding % and a better TS %.  His assist rate is double that of Cousins and turnover rate the same.  His usage rate is considerably less, as he's not the focus of the offense like Cousins, but that's been changing.  He's averaging 14 and 8 for the season in 25 minutes, but 23 and 10 in his last 10 games in 30 minutes per game.

Cousins is 8th in PER, Jokic 13th.  Cousins is 10th in RPM, Jokic 16th.  Jokic is 10th in WS/48, Cousins not in the top 20.

I'm not a scout and don't get to see either one play a lot, but statistically there's a strong case for Jokic.

[chilidawg]

Here's what I would do.

Give Denver the right to swap for the Brooklyn 17 pick with their pick plus Kelly Olynyk for Jokic right now. That's a fair exchange for both teams.

I'd do that in a heartbeat if I'm DA.  Given that Jokic is cost controlled and KO on an expiring, I'd think Denver would want more.

[Evantime34]

I think the C's would rather have the Brooklyn first than Jokic and the Nuggets would rather have Jokic than the Brooklyn pick.

[playdream]

Wow..If he is as good as KG then yea he is more than #1 pick

[Eddie20]

Jokic is more valuable than the pick. It's not close to be honest.

For some perspective, here are Ford and Felton ranking 2nd year players (Towns obviously #1)-

The next two second-year players

Ford: So if Towns is still No. 1, who's next for you, Porzingis or Jokic? Both are having superb sophomore seasons.

Pelton: Just as we're destined to debate Jabari Parker and Andrew Wiggins for the next decade, I think Jokic vs. Porzingis will be the enduring question from last season's rookie class. I went Jokic last spring, then felt foolish when he flopped alongside Jusuf Nurkic in the Denver Nuggets' ill-fated starting lineup to begin the season.

Since Jokic returned to a smaller starting five with more appropriate floor spacing around him, however, the offensive results have been incredible. Only the San Antonio Spurs have a better offensive rating than the Nuggets in that span, per NBA.com/Stats. And Jokic is posting eye-popping stats: 24.7 points, 12.1 rebounds and a team-leading 7.3 assists per 36 minutes on .706 true shooting.

Defense is the only reason Jokic vs. Porzingis isn't a no-brainer (and why Jokic isn't yet threatening Towns). That new Denver starting lineup also struggled defensively, allowing 117.5 points per 100 possessions (which would be worst in the NBA over the full season), leading Kenneth Faried to replace Wilson Chandler at power forward.

Also, because Jokic's skills and pattern recognition are already so developed, he may not have as much room to grow as Porzingis.

But I'm still sticking with him in the No. 2 spot. Do you agree, Chad?

Ford: I've always leaned Porzingis and still do. But you are right, Jokic's offensive numbers since the Nuggets went small are absolutely incredible. However, we are talking long-term potential here, and Porzingis' potential on both ends of the floor gives him the edge for me.

Offensively, he continues to improve and his 40 percent shooting from 3-point range this season adds another dangerous weapon to his arsenal. Defensively, Porzingis' per-minute rebounding and shot-blocking numbers are down a bit, but I think some of that has to do with the role he has played in New York this season. Eventually, when the Knicks begin to figure out Porzingis is a 5 in the NBA, I think you'll see him making a much bigger impact defensively.

Porzingis has been in a bit of a slump lately as he has struggled with Achilles tendinitis. As long as that doesn't become a chronic issue, I still think he'll be the better player in three years.

Pelton: First, Porzingis is going to need to defend better (a recurring theme, no surprise with young players) when he is playing center. Using NBA.com/Stats lineup data, I find New York is allowing 113.5 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis at center -- even worse than the Knicks' overall 108.0 defensive rating.

While the injury may have derailed Porzingis' bid for an All-Star berth this season, he's on track to get there sooner rather than later and the fact that I have him third just underscores the depth of this season's rookie class.

Ford: Yes, at 21 Porzingis has a long ways to go defensively, but the physical tools are present to get him there. And that's my only issue with Jokic. He's clearly the superior offensive player right now. But I worry that Jokic's physical limitations will keep him from ever being a force defensively.

Still, when you have three 7-footers each making a major impact during their sophomore seasons, you have an elite rookie class.

The rest of the rankings if you're interested:

Two spots, three sophs

Ford: Who do you have at No. 4, Kevin? I think this is where things get a lot more wide-open.

Pelton: Actually, I'd say we have four 7-footers making major impacts, with Indiana Pacers center Myles Turner next on my list. In fact, Turner actually has more WARP (4.7) this season than Porzingis (3..

Turner's box-score stats may overstate his value because his block rate (6.9 percent, third among players with at least 500 minutes of action) flatters his rim protection. In terms of shooting percentage allowed inside 5 feet, Turner ranks 31st among players who have defended at least five such shots per game at 51.1 percent, according to  Spor**** tracking on NBA.com/Stats.

Still, Turner has been a solid starting center for the Pacers before his 21st birthday. As Turner adds NBA 3-point range (he has made 25 this season at an impressive 42.4 percent clip after attempting just 14 as a rookie), he's going to be difficult to stop in the pick-and-pop game. So I think there's a stronger case he belongs in a tier with the prospects ahead of him than anyone behind him.

Do you agree, or do you have someone different?

Ford: Turner is my No. 4 as well, and while I don't quite have him in the same tier as Towns, Porzingis or Jokic, I certainly think he can get there. Turner, to me, has always been more of a work in progress, but the progress is significant -- both as a defender and as an offensive player.

A couple of years ago, I think we could have credibly argued, as many did, that the center position appeared nearly dead. But here are four 7-footers having significant impact on their teams and, along with other young centers such as Anthony Davis, Rudy Gobert and Joel Embiid, resurrecting the importance of big men in the NBA. Not big, lumbering dinosaurs, but big guys who can both protect the rim and stretch the floor. It's really fun to watch.

Who do you have at No. 5?

Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.

While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development.

You've consistently favored Emmanuel Mudiay over Russell. Is that still the case?

Ford: No. Mudiay is still struggling and Russell is looking better. But neither is at No. 5 for me.

I know the advanced stats have not been kind to Devin Booker, but I still think he should make the top five on potential. He's a 20-year-old who is averaging better than 20 PPG, has the potential to be an elite shooter and shows an overall great feel for the game.

Booker is averaging 27.6 PPG in January and shooting 50 percent from 3. I know it's a small sample size and he has been streaky. I also know he hasn't brought a lot else to the table statistically. But I still see major upside from him and would bet he starts to figure out more ways to contribute down the road.

The second five

Ford: Who are your next five, Kevin?

Pelton: Here we go.

6. Devin Booker
 7. Trey Lyles
 8. Larry Nance Jr.
 9. Sam Dekker
 10. Montrezl Harrell

I don't totally disagree on Booker. I think there's a gap between Booker and Russell, but I still have him sixth. Although Booker's defensive stats are unlikely to improve much, I do think he'll become a much more efficient offensive player than he is now when put in a more appropriate role alongside better shot creators.

Booker and former Kentucky teammate Trey Lyles are the two other one-and-done prospects currently performing around replacement level or better. The others in the group, including Mudiay and No. 3 pick Jahlil Okafor, are so far from replacement level right now that I'm not convinced they're going to get there.

As a result, I'm rounding out my top 10 with three lower-upside prospects who are contributing far more to their teams right now.

Nance is already an above-average backup big man -- the Lakers have really missed him while he has been sidelined -- who might eventually grow to become a starter. And the Rockets managed to pluck a couple of rotation pieces in Harrell (who has replaced the injured Clint Capela at center without Houston missing a beat) and Dekker (solid off the bench after missing nearly his entire rookie season due to injury) at picks 18 and 32.

How about you, Chad?

Ford: Here's my list.

6. D'Angelo Russell
 7. Trey Lyles
 8. Justise Winslow
 9. Emmanuel Mudiay
 10. Jahlil Okafor

I'm with you on both Russell and Lyles. Both have very bright futures and the upside is still there. I'm going to go against the numbers and still hold out hope for three other one-and-dones who I just think it's too early to write off.

Winslow is out with season-ending shoulder surgery, but I still see a future that exceeds that of Nance, Dekker or Harrell (though Harrell would be No. 11 on my list and I really like how he's playing in Houston at the moment). Defensively, I think he still has the ability to be a lockdown wing.






Mudiay continues to be awful and I think it's only a matter of time before Jamal Murray replaces him. But there are still enough glimpses of a good player there that I can't write off Mudiay yet.

As for Okafor, I wonder how all of us got it so wrong on him during most of the year before the draft. There was a time early in the draft process when he was the consensus No. 1 guy. Now it's clear Okafor isn't as good as NBA scouts and I thought he was in November and December of his freshman season at Duke.

But I don't think Okafor is as bad as he looks many nights in Philly either. He needs a change of scenery badly and all indications are that the Sixers are going to give it to him -- probably in the next month. On a different team in a different situation, I think Okafor can be a quality starter in the NBA someday.

[Geo123]

Jokic has more value than BK17

100% true, no way the Nuggets trade him for that.

[green_bballers13]

wait.... what?

You think Jokic is worth more than the #1 pick in the NBA draft?

[Eddie20]

wait.... what?

You think Jokic is worth more than the #1 pick in the NBA draft?

Watch Jokic play, factor in his age, and then post your thoughts. The guy offensively has no weaknesses. He can post, hit 3's, has really soft hands, is an excellent offense rebounder, and is one of the best passing bigs, if not the best, in the game. The offense literally runs through him in the high post.

[max215]

Jokic has more value than BK17

100% true, no way the Nuggets trade him for that.

Yeah, he's proven and not going anywhere.

[Bobshot]

I wouldn't trade the Nets picks for players of this level. They don't want Galinari--he's overpaid and injury prone. Jokic OK, but they don't have to trade a Nets pick for him.