Author Topic: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17  (Read 38377 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #450 on: January 19, 2017, 04:39:02 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48140
  • Tommy Points: 2922
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #451 on: January 19, 2017, 04:51:30 PM »

Offline TrueFan

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1791
  • Tommy Points: 79
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.
Perfect response.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #452 on: January 19, 2017, 04:54:24 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.

You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #453 on: January 19, 2017, 05:04:41 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

Forgive me if I trust stats sometimes, because what we perceive is often not what we see and this is true often in sports because of our preconceptions.   Marcus Smart is tremendous defender and stats do not always measure what he does on the court but to discount all stats is nonsense.   FG generally shows how well and individual shoots for instance.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #454 on: January 19, 2017, 05:31:17 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48140
  • Tommy Points: 2922
Quote
For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

Forgive me if I trust stats sometimes, because what we perceive is often not what we see and this is true often in sports because of our preconceptions.   Marcus Smart is tremendous defender and stats do not always measure what he does on the court but to discount all stats is nonsense.   FG generally shows how well and individual shoots for instance.

Good Lord. Did you even read what I put, brah? You literally just regurgitated what I just said and accused me of saying something else. lol

Quote
I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #455 on: January 19, 2017, 05:32:16 PM »

Offline TrueFan

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1791
  • Tommy Points: 79
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.

You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #456 on: January 19, 2017, 05:51:03 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48140
  • Tommy Points: 2922
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.


You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Lol. You're funny. I literally said this had nothing to do with Smart, all while heaping quite a bit of criticism on Smart. But, no, it's still because I'm a Smart homer.  ::)

It's more about literally every single person on the game thread last night complaining about how bad Rozier was (since, you know, he was objectively bad and you have yet to disprove that fact), yet you're still claiming that every single other person was overreacting. That's the height of arrogance, let alone willful ignorance.

Stop questioning other people's fan status because they "dare" to criticize players who play bad rather than being blatant homers and thinking everything is always sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even tankcity! admitted how bad he was and that he understands the criticism, and he was one of Rozier's biggest fans coming into the season. He's at least being objective with the matter.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 05:58:51 PM by jpotter33 »

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #457 on: January 19, 2017, 06:32:39 PM »

Offline TrueFan

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1791
  • Tommy Points: 79
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.


You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Lol. You're funny. I literally said this had nothing to do with Smart, all while heaping quite a bit of criticism on Smart. But, no, it's still because I'm a Smart homer.  ::)

It's more about literally every single person on the game thread last night complaining about how bad Rozier was (since, you know, he was objectively bad and you have yet to disprove that fact), yet you're still claiming that every single other person was overreacting. That's the height of arrogance, let alone willful ignorance.

Stop questioning other people's fan status because they "dare" to criticize players who play bad rather than being blatant homers and thinking everything is always sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even tankcity! admitted how bad he was and that he understands the criticism, and he was one of Rozier's biggest fans coming into the season. He's at least being objective with the matter.
Do you read the posts or just like listening to yourself? Tank city said Roz played decent in the second half which is what I said. Other posters also posted that people were over reacting and you are the biggest over reactor in these game threads.

You brought Smart into this. All I said was Brad had more trust in Roz when pressed for needing offense. Why else is Smart coming out with 2 minutes to go.

Horford and Smart were 3-20 combined  but you would rather have a cry fest about Roz.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #458 on: January 19, 2017, 06:48:21 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48140
  • Tommy Points: 2922
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.


You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Lol. You're funny. I literally said this had nothing to do with Smart, all while heaping quite a bit of criticism on Smart. But, no, it's still because I'm a Smart homer.  ::)

It's more about literally every single person on the game thread last night complaining about how bad Rozier was (since, you know, he was objectively bad and you have yet to disprove that fact), yet you're still claiming that every single other person was overreacting. That's the height of arrogance, let alone willful ignorance.

Stop questioning other people's fan status because they "dare" to criticize players who play bad rather than being blatant homers and thinking everything is always sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even tankcity! admitted how bad he was and that he understands the criticism, and he was one of Rozier's biggest fans coming into the season. He's at least being objective with the matter.
Do you read the posts or just like listening to yourself? Tank city said Roz played decent in the second half which is what I said. Other posters also posted that people were over reacting and you are the biggest over reactor in these game threads.

You brought Smart into this. All I said was Brad had more trust in Roz when pressed for needing offense. Why else is Smart coming out with 2 minutes to go.

Horford and Smart were 3-20 combined  but you would rather have a cry fest about Roz.

Quote
You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.

Lol you're seriously incorrigible and not worth the time to argue with when you just interpret evidence however you want to fit your narrative, similar to another infamous poster on here. I literally criticized Smart for his game last night, but you just ignore it and keep pressing on. lol Ignorance.

I'm just going to go with recommendations from other posters and just ignore this ridiculousness. Do you, boo boo, do you.

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #459 on: January 19, 2017, 07:09:35 PM »

Offline TrueFan

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1791
  • Tommy Points: 79
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.


You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Lol. You're funny. I literally said this had nothing to do with Smart, all while heaping quite a bit of criticism on Smart. But, no, it's still because I'm a Smart homer.  ::)

It's more about literally every single person on the game thread last night complaining about how bad Rozier was (since, you know, he was objectively bad and you have yet to disprove that fact), yet you're still claiming that every single other person was overreacting. That's the height of arrogance, let alone willful ignorance.

Stop questioning other people's fan status because they "dare" to criticize players who play bad rather than being blatant homers and thinking everything is always sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even tankcity! admitted how bad he was and that he understands the criticism, and he was one of Rozier's biggest fans coming into the season. He's at least being objective with the matter.
Do you read the posts or just like listening to yourself? Tank city said Roz played decent in the second half which is what I said. Other posters also posted that people were over reacting and you are the biggest over reactor in these game threads.

You brought Smart into this. All I said was Brad had more trust in Roz when pressed for needing offense. Why else is Smart coming out with 2 minutes to go.

Horford and Smart were 3-20 combined  but you would rather have a cry fest about Roz.

Quote
You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.

Lol you're seriously incorrigible and not worth the time to argue with when you just interpret evidence however you want to fit your narrative, similar to another infamous poster on here. I literally criticized Smart for his game last night, but you just ignore it and keep pressing on. lol Ignorance.

I'm just going to go with recommendations from other posters and just ignore this ridiculousness. Do you, boo boo, do you.
You sound like you're 10.

Tank city said precisely the same thing I said but you want to ignore it. Did you conveniently forget this post?

Rozier needs more time, but he looked fine to me tonight. People just need a scapegoat for the lack of defense. I mean what does 2nd chance points have to do with Rozier? Nope, let's blame a 2nd year player, then don't give him credit for his positive play in the 2nd half.

Rozier played well in the second half and there was plenty of blame to go around including the guy who went 1-6. That guy being Marcus Smart.


Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #460 on: January 19, 2017, 10:40:19 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.


You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Lol. You're funny. I literally said this had nothing to do with Smart, all while heaping quite a bit of criticism on Smart. But, no, it's still because I'm a Smart homer.  ::)

It's more about literally every single person on the game thread last night complaining about how bad Rozier was (since, you know, he was objectively bad and you have yet to disprove that fact), yet you're still claiming that every single other person was overreacting. That's the height of arrogance, let alone willful ignorance.

Stop questioning other people's fan status because they "dare" to criticize players who play bad rather than being blatant homers and thinking everything is always sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even tankcity! admitted how bad he was and that he understands the criticism, and he was one of Rozier's biggest fans coming into the season. He's at least being objective with the matter.
Do you read the posts or just like listening to yourself? Tank city said Roz played decent in the second half which is what I said. Other posters also posted that people were over reacting and you are the biggest over reactor in these game threads.

You brought Smart into this. All I said was Brad had more trust in Roz when pressed for needing offense. Why else is Smart coming out with 2 minutes to go.

Horford and Smart were 3-20 combined  but you would rather have a cry fest about Roz.

Quote
You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.

Lol you're seriously incorrigible and not worth the time to argue with when you just interpret evidence however you want to fit your narrative, similar to another infamous poster on here. I literally criticized Smart for his game last night, but you just ignore it and keep pressing on. lol Ignorance.

I'm just going to go with recommendations from other posters and just ignore this ridiculousness. Do you, boo boo, do you.
You sound like you're 10.

Tank city said precisely the same thing I said but you want to ignore it. Did you conveniently forget this post?

Rozier needs more time, but he looked fine to me tonight. People just need a scapegoat for the lack of defense. I mean what does 2nd chance points have to do with Rozier? Nope, let's blame a 2nd year player, then don't give him credit for his positive play in the 2nd half.

Rozier played well in the second half and there was plenty of blame to go around including the guy who went 1-6. That guy being Marcus Smart.

I thought Rozier was a plus in the 2nd half. However my old post was made to point out that our rebounding issues are the reason we lost the game and not Rozier. That is separate from what you and Potter are discussing. Also when I made that posts I didn't have the stats in front of me. I was watching the game. He had a bad stat night and at the end of the day I weigh that more. It means he had a bad night overall. 

Re: Knicks (18-24) at Celtics (26-15) Game #42 1/17/17
« Reply #461 on: January 19, 2017, 11:37:48 PM »

Offline TrueFan

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1791
  • Tommy Points: 79
Rozier had a nice second half and has been crushing the practices. Of course he's going to get an opportunity when AB goes down. He's also getting minutes for the first time this year so he's kind of a rookie out there.

People should relax on the Roz hate. It makes you look like a bad fan and if anything he has earned the opportunities with solid practices. Like any other young player he is going to make mistakes out there. The important thing is he has shown some decent potential. He's not as bad as this thread makes him out to be. He's just making rookie mistakes sometimes and considering we aren't title contenders we should be ok with the occasional bad half if it means bringing him along and getting him better for next year.

Practice... lol.

He needed to get his playing time LAST season, a lot of these rookie mistakes would be more limited and it's not consistent by Stevens to allow Rozier to commit them but Brown needs to have a PER of 30 to stay on the floor... just smh @ Stevens

If we are reeling in Brown who was playing good and is our highest draft pick since like forever, to prioritize the development of Rozier NOW, he is doing this thing all wrong... and essentially putting Brown in the situation Rozier was in last year. Rozier has only improved marginally but  apparently, even with this going on, CB thinks playing time is not important for development  ??? all I'm saying, is that I seriously don't want Jaylen to be developing at the rate Terry is

I am trying to convince myself that Terry is being showcased and if he keeps going 20 mins a game with only 4 points here and there and then imploding in larger roles, Danny needs to cut him and James Young. Too many assets on this team for us to keep fiddling around with potentially middling players.
Im not really following you on any of this other then there is some over reaction going on.

Roz has been impressing his teammates in practice and has earned their trust. That's why you see him at the end of games over Brown.

Labeling Roz as a middling player at this stage of his career is premature. He's clearly better then James Young and has shown flashes of being pretty good. He's earned whatever minutes he gets. I don't understand why everyone is crying over Roz's minutes.

He plays PG, the same position Smart fans want Marcus to play.
That probably had some part to do with the anger over Roz last night. Meanwhile Smart was 1-6 last night and was 1-5 the night before. With 2 minutes to go and down 10 Brad pulled Smart and kept Roz in. That is pretty telling that Brad has more trust in Roz to provide offense then Smart when the game desperately calls for offense.

Roz is no where close to Smart as an overall player but he's more dynamic then Smart on offense.

Lol you are off your rocker.

It's amazing that this Rozier lovefest is still going on after he's been a complete disappointment this entire season so far. I mean, he's to the point of receiving DNP-CD's virtually every game that we're healthy, because he simply can't even run the bench offense.

And the fact that you're making this argument after last night, which was probably Rozier's worst game in green, makes it even more hilarious. You pointed out Smart's struggles, but it's funny that you didn't mention Rozier's struggles, which were worse across the board:

Rozier - 5 pts (1-8 fgs, 1-4 3pfgs), 1 reb, 2 asts, 1 stl, and a -22 overall.

Smart - 4 pts (1-6 fgs, 0-2 3pfgs), 3 rebs, 5 asts, 2 stls, 2 blks, and an overall +0.

This is why it makes absolutely no sense for you to be making this argument right now. By virtually every measure, he was terrible. If he had a good game, perhaps your argument would hold more weight.

And it's amazing that virtually every other single poster in the game thread saw the same thing - an outright terrible performance from Rozier last night. But you're the accurate analysis here, and everyone else is just overreacting.  ;)

Is it necessary for you to rip him like that? I don't even know why you showed Smart's stats since you have always said you can't use stats to measure Smart's value...You also threw away every metric NBA Front Office's use to measure Smart out the window too.

Smart >Rozier. Congratulations. Call me when Smart makes the all star team. You and Snakehead had him as an all star so you're no Nostradamus either. I should try and dig up what you said about Smart when we initially drafted him. I'm sure he hasn't met your expectations. But god forbid you admit that.

Have a nice day ripping on a misinformed poster  ;)

Yup, just winked back at you. No idea why you use it.

Lol here we go again. And again I have no idea why you're so confrontational regarding this.

For the hundredth time, I've never said stats as a whole are useless, because of course traditional stats are meaningful. I've always ripped on your use of advanced stats, specifically defensive advanced stats, to try and measure Smart, because they're notoriously inaccurate and many times go against the eye test. I've consistently said that the eye test and knowing how to properly evaluate a player's defense is more reliable than these stats that can't properly isolate a player's impact from the context that he's in. I literally have no idea why you cannot grasp this simple distinction that I've repeated to you a hundred times on here...

And this has nothing to do with Smart. He tried making the argument that Rozier was outplaying Smart last night, when that's the farthest thing from the truth. He was worse in virtually every regard last night. I'm just tired of people being blatant homers and being unwilling to criticize players when they play bad. You can still be a "good fan" and criticize a player for his weaknesses and when he plays terribly. Rozier was outright terrible last night, and Smart wasn't much better.

And let's get this whole Smart issue out of the way - overall I'm disappointed in him this year. He's actually made many improvements with his passing, ball-handling, and overall offense initiation as a point guard, just as many of us said. However, his shooting is still downright terrible, and he's never going to take the next step unless he fixes that to allow him to score at a higher and more efficient rate. At this rate, he will max out at an elite role player/starter on a good team.

I still want him on my team, because he impacts winning in a way that isn't always quantifiable. But unless he improves his shot, which will in turn make his scoring opportunities easier, then he'll never reach his potential of what he can be.


You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.
Hes the biggest game thread whiner. He calls people homers yet he's the biggest Smart homer on here.

If you look at what I said which was Roz played decent in the second and that Smart got pulled with 2 minutes to go then you know why Jpotter went nuclear. It went from hey Roz is getting way too much blame to Truefan thinks Roz is better then Smart which is not true but he likes to over react and says whatever to draw attention. He's actually fun to chat with just not in the game threads. Total overreaction.

Lol. You're funny. I literally said this had nothing to do with Smart, all while heaping quite a bit of criticism on Smart. But, no, it's still because I'm a Smart homer.  ::)

It's more about literally every single person on the game thread last night complaining about how bad Rozier was (since, you know, he was objectively bad and you have yet to disprove that fact), yet you're still claiming that every single other person was overreacting. That's the height of arrogance, let alone willful ignorance.

Stop questioning other people's fan status because they "dare" to criticize players who play bad rather than being blatant homers and thinking everything is always sunshine and rainbows. Hell, even tankcity! admitted how bad he was and that he understands the criticism, and he was one of Rozier's biggest fans coming into the season. He's at least being objective with the matter.
Do you read the posts or just like listening to yourself? Tank city said Roz played decent in the second half which is what I said. Other posters also posted that people were over reacting and you are the biggest over reactor in these game threads.

You brought Smart into this. All I said was Brad had more trust in Roz when pressed for needing offense. Why else is Smart coming out with 2 minutes to go.

Horford and Smart were 3-20 combined  but you would rather have a cry fest about Roz.

Quote
You just made my day Potter, thank you. I'm no longer going to bring up Smart anymore. Feel free to rip Rozier. He hasn't played well so I understood the criticism.

Lol you're seriously incorrigible and not worth the time to argue with when you just interpret evidence however you want to fit your narrative, similar to another infamous poster on here. I literally criticized Smart for his game last night, but you just ignore it and keep pressing on. lol Ignorance.

I'm just going to go with recommendations from other posters and just ignore this ridiculousness. Do you, boo boo, do you.
You sound like you're 10.

Tank city said precisely the same thing I said but you want to ignore it. Did you conveniently forget this post?

Rozier needs more time, but he looked fine to me tonight. People just need a scapegoat for the lack of defense. I mean what does 2nd chance points have to do with Rozier? Nope, let's blame a 2nd year player, then don't give him credit for his positive play in the 2nd half.

Rozier played well in the second half and there was plenty of blame to go around including the guy who went 1-6. That guy being Marcus Smart.

I thought Rozier was a plus in the 2nd half. However my old post was made to point out that our rebounding issues are the reason we lost the game and not Rozier. That is separate from what you and Potter are discussing. Also when I made that posts I didn't have the stats in front of me. I was watching the game. He had a bad stat night and at the end of the day I weigh that more. It means he had a bad night overall.
Wasnt my intention to drag you into that. Roz was 0-4 in the first half. The second half he played decent. My overall point was the same as yours that Roz alone wasn't to blame for the way we played but Jpotter turned it into something it wasn't with his overreaction.