Thoughts on a Thomas and Ball backcourt

[CelticGuardian]

I've seen ball ahead of fultz in some mocks.  He actually shoots higher percentages. Is there a reason fultz seems so much more popular with fans right now ?

Just ability to make tough shots. Hand in the face.  But has to play like this because he chose to play for a bad team...maybe it was by design to show how good he is

It's working. Only guy that we have that does what he does is Isaiah, taking guys off the dribble, bumping bodies to create space for the shot, and the smoothest scoring touch in college. He is miles ahead of Ball when it comes to playing NBA basketball at the point, who would not have his own time under the sun if he was playing in Fultz team with no TJ Leaf and no random Senior that can go off for 37 points. I think Ball is going to struggle in the NBA, (especially if drafted by Miami or the Sixers). Right now, he can impose his will on College and have every one play his game as he is the superior athlete now, but once the people guarding him get just as fast as him and have better instincts to not bite on such slow hesitations and fakes... he won't produce as much as he is now offensively.

[The One]

I would not be shocked if Ball ends up better than Fultz.

But I would be uncomfortable with Thomas and Ball defensively.

[CFAN38]

My quick opinion is that IT and Ball will fit perfectly together on offense.


If that is the route DA ends up taking then I suspect AB would have to be traded and Smart would actually start along side IT. I can see an off-season scenario where DA moves AB and/or Crowder along with non Nets picks for a major front court upgrade (hard to find a target Whitside is a head case, Gasol is to old, maybe Favors if healthy?). Then targets Hayward as a FA and resigns KO (as long as a team like Toronto doesn't get crazy and maxes him out).

This could leave the Cs with the following for next season

PG IT
SG Smart
SF Hayward
PF Horford
C  Favors (or other trade target TBD)
6th KO
7th Brown
8th Ball
9th Zizic

This group is a nice mix of young high end talent and younger vets. I would expect this team to still be a top 3 in the east while the youth develops. While competing at the top of the division the Cs would be developing a potential next generation contender built around Ball, Smart, Brown, and Zizic.

[Roy H.]

Ideally, I'd like to keep Bradley and use Fultz/ Ball as a 6th man for awhile. That won't work forever, but I think that rotation would be great for a couple of years.

[droopdog7]

As was said earlier, we don't need Ball to get IT the ball (no pun intended).  In fact, someone that dominates the ball is probably going to hurt IT more than help him.

Fultz is the better prospect.  Much better, more versatile scorer, much better off the ball, more defensive potential.  Ball shoots half court shots because those are the shots he can get.  I wouldn't put much stock in those.  Filth meanwhile has an array of moves both with and without the ball.

[ThePaintedArea]

 Let's say Ball is BPA when we pick.
 Bradley will command huge dollars.

 Ball is the most unselfish player you will find. He will get the ball to Isaiah all day long. He can space the court with deadly super deep three point shooting. He can guard the two with his length and athletism.

 Fultz in the backcourt would give us more firepower for sure, but  telling you Ball would blend in so nicely with our squad.

If he really is 6'6" it makes a big difference. Being able to guard smaller wings greatly enhances his desirability and his fit on the Celtics.  Same goes for Fultz, of course.

The weird shot mechanics are reminiscent of Kevin Martin, with the important difference that Kevin was an excellent shooter.

He doesn't seem to have a good background with defensive fundamentals.  Getting in a stance and keeping his hands up... I'd like to see more evidence that he wants to get in and get physical.

Flexor-dominated body, rigidity in the shoulders, knee joints are pretty far back (the bandages on both knees suggesting he might be dealing with tendinitis...) - as far as body goes, Fultz is more likely to avoid injuries as a pro.

Gotta love the flair, which sounds superficial but shows energy, skill, and preparation. The skill and inclination to make plays for his teammates is his biggest plus.

I prefer Fultz, all things considered; better body, effortless movement - and the shooting and scoring versatility alone set him apart.  But Ball looks like a great choice.

[Ogaju]

saw the heading and guessed it was you. Fultz is better than Ball.

why start another thread on this?

 Because Einstein what are the chances we get the #1 pick? Not good. A much better chance we get the #2 or #3 pick.

 Fultz is a pipe dream. It's not happening. You heard it here first. I'm preparing for Jackson, Ball, Taytum, Giles right now.

So you do agree that Fultz is the superior talent. Thanks.

[mmmmm]

I've seen ball ahead of fultz in some mocks.  He actually shoots higher percentages. Is there a reason fultz seems so much more popular with fans right now ?

Just ability to make tough shots. Hand in the face.  But has to play like this because he chose to play for a bad team...maybe it was by design to show how good he is

It's working. Only guy that we have that does what he does is Isaiah, taking guys off the dribble, bumping bodies to create space for the shot, and the smoothest scoring touch in college. He is miles ahead of Ball when it comes to playing NBA basketball at the point, who would not have his own time under the sun if he was playing in Fultz team with no TJ Leaf and no random Senior that can go off for 37 points. I think Ball is going to struggle in the NBA, (especially if drafted by Miami or the Sixers). Right now, he can impose his will on College and have every one play his game as he is the superior athlete now, but once the people guarding him get just as fast as him and have better instincts to not bite on such slow hesitations and fakes... he won't produce as much as he is now offensively.

People should not underestimate just how important and valuable what Fultz is able to do in this regard is.

Ball is not facing the same constant double-teams and swarming that Fultz is facing. 

Fultz is getting "The Isaiah Treatment(tm)" from opposing defenses every night that we Celtic fans are very familiar with.  And he has demonstrated a wide variety of elite-level skills at creating a shot out of nothing.   And he's not just doing it one way.  He's using a huge variety of moves, both with and without screens to create space and to get his shot off clean.   He can use finesse and he can drive with power.  He's incredibly advanced already.  Those skills are going to translate.

[playdream]

Ball's biggest problem is he can't drive(thus so much long 3s)
If he can fix his dribble he will be the better player

[knuckleballer]

If we end up with the number 1 pick, I don't think we draft a player based on how he fits with IT.  I love IT, but his game is dependent on his quickness and that's going to start slipping in a few years which would be about the time that Fultz or Ball begin reaching their potential. 

[TrueFan]

Ideally, I'd like to keep Bradley and use Fultz/ Ball as a 6th man for awhile. That won't work forever, but I think that rotation would be great for a couple of years.

I agree. He could get all of the 15 minutes of backup minutes at point guard and then play some two with IT at the 1. That would work out for the first two years without anyone complaining too much about playing time.

The biggest problem is what will happen to AB and Smart's minutes. Someone will have to lose minutes for this to work.

[cons]

I love Ball, but I can't see him and isaiah playing a lot together - just simply bc they're both point guards. obviously IT is more of a scoring point but I don't think he could play 2. playing ball at the 2 would waste his main skills. 
 also i doubt it would go over well w IT to ask him to adjust to a rookie coming in at this point. the rookie has to adjust to him.
 
It just seems like our kind of draft luck that the year we may get a #1 is the year its all PGs at the top and the best player we have by a mile is a PG who really can't be anything else but a PG.

 anyway, i trust danny to figure it out. good problem to have! 

[TrueFan]

I love Ball, but I can't see him and isaiah playing a lot together - just simply bc they're both point guards. obviously IT is more of a scoring point but I don't think he could play 2. playing ball at the 2 would waste his main skills. 
 also i doubt it would go over well w IT to ask him to adjust to a rookie coming in at this point. the rookie has to adjust to him.
 
It just seems like our kind of draft luck that the year we may get a #1 is the year its all PGs at the top and the best player we have by a mile is a PG who really can't be anything else but a PG.

 anyway, i trust danny to figure it out. good problem to have! 

Ball is a very dynamic player. He can play the two for stretches. He's also a better play maker with the ball then Fultz. The ball doesn't stick with Lonzo.

Fultz on the other hand might not work with IT. They would both be ball dominant players.

[CelticGuardian]

I've seen ball ahead of fultz in some mocks.  He actually shoots higher percentages. Is there a reason fultz seems so much more popular with fans right now ?

Just ability to make tough shots. Hand in the face.  But has to play like this because he chose to play for a bad team...maybe it was by design to show how good he is

It's working. Only guy that we have that does what he does is Isaiah, taking guys off the dribble, bumping bodies to create space for the shot, and the smoothest scoring touch in college. He is miles ahead of Ball when it comes to playing NBA basketball at the point, who would not have his own time under the sun if he was playing in Fultz team with no TJ Leaf and no random Senior that can go off for 37 points. I think Ball is going to struggle in the NBA, (especially if drafted by Miami or the Sixers). Right now, he can impose his will on College and have every one play his game as he is the superior athlete now, but once the people guarding him get just as fast as him and have better instincts to not bite on such slow hesitations and fakes... he won't produce as much as he is now offensively.

People should not underestimate just how important and valuable what Fultz is able to do in this regard is.

Ball is not facing the same constant double-teams and swarming that Fultz is facing. 

Fultz is getting "The Isaiah Treatment(tm)" from opposing defenses every night that we Celtic fans are very familiar with.  And he has demonstrated a wide variety of elite-level skills at creating a shot out of nothing.   And he's not just doing it one way.  He's using a huge variety of moves, both with and without screens to create space and to get his shot off clean.   He can use finesse and he can drive with power.  He's incredibly advanced already.  Those skills are going to translate.

On the money there, bro. No they shouldn't, because only the best players in the NBA can do what IT4 and Fultz do. Which essentially boils down the debate to this:

Ball has the ideal plan of attack he says "I'm not going to let the defense get set, I'm going to run like hell, use my speed, and move the ball quick and get it to the shooters on my team, all while having the defense respect my shot from 30 feet" ... in College with just 'good' athleticism that play style will result into positive things for his team, because that is opportunistic basketball, the right way to play.

However, Fultz has the talent to make something out of nothing when that plan goes array... he literally just says "give me the ball and get out of the way" and that is special basketball, the job of basically all the stars in this league, namely one Isaiah Thomas for the Boston Celtics.

Honestly, it will come down to the vision that Ainge and Stevens shares and they will have to see if Lonzo is as athletic as he looks in these games besides that vs Kentucky were he sh-- the bed against De'Aaron Fox, who I'm pretty high on too.  Lonzo looks too frail to me, and he hasn't gotten that jumpshot off clean when it's contested(seems to always fall on the floor for some reason, leaning back so much) to think it will translate to the big boys..

[vjcsmoke]

Still would rather have Fultz over Ball.  Fultz is more polished and a better shooter.  He's also got a 6'10 wingspan which is enormous for a guard.  Would be a real good complement to IT because he could defend the taller guards and score from inside or outside as well.

 Let's say Ball is BPA when we pick.
 Bradley will command huge dollars.

 Ball is the most unselfish player you will find. He will get the ball to Isaiah all day long. He can space the court with deadly super deep three point shooting. He can guard the two with his length and athletism.

 Fultz in the backcourt would give us more firepower for sure, but  telling you Ball would blend in so nicely with our squad.