Why Did Danny Pass on Isaiah?

[mr. dee]

Back in the draft, he took JaJuan Johnson, who was a bust and E'Twaun Moore who's having a decent career. So why did Danny passed up on Isaiah again when he's in his reach.

Reading Isaiah's article on players tribune, it seems like Danny knows Isaiah could be a special player. Did Danny predicted that teams will undervalue him due to his size? Or is it lack of trust from Doc to develop him, especially with Rondo on the roster?

I know Danny took him on a bargain, but I'm wondering why he didn't draft him when Isaiah could be acquired back in the draft in the first place.

[Granath]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

[mr. dee]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

Im serious. Danny practically told Isaiah that he will be a great player, yet he didn't drafted him when he's in reach. This is not a knock on Danny's decisions. Its actually the opposite. It's like he knew that Isaiah will be quite cheap.

[Granath]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

Im serious. Danny practically told Isaiah that he will be a great player, yet he didn't drafted him when he's in reach. This is not a knock on Danny's decisions. Its actually the opposite. It's like he knew that Isaiah will be quite cheap.

As I said, everyone passed on IT. He was an afterthought coming into the league. I doubt he was seriously considered by the Cs. Of course, he proved to be a dynamic scorer. Once he showed that he was on Danny's radar. When the PG logjam happened, Danny was able to get him knowing that he'd be input into an ideal situation for his talents.

[mr. dee]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

Im serious. Danny practically told Isaiah that he will be a great player, yet he didn't drafted him when he's in reach. This is not a knock on Danny's decisions. Its actually the opposite. It's like he knew that Isaiah will be quite cheap.

As I said, everyone passed on IT. He was an afterthought coming into the league. I doubt he was seriously considered by the Cs. Of course, he proved to be a dynamic scorer. Once he showed that he was on Danny's radar. When the PG logjam happened, Danny was able to get him knowing that he'd be input into an ideal situation for his talents.

He was basically putting good stats on a bad team. GMs tend to take those stats with a grain of salt. Case in point with the likes of Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo and Monta Ellis.

[LilRip]

I think he told him he'd be a great player out of common courtesy. In their line of work, relationships are everything. If IT defied the odds and became a great player or he made a connection with a great player (the way Bazemore helped Under Armor get Steph Curry), that throwaway compliment might help in the long run.

[OldSchoolDude]

At that point in the draft you’re adding a camp body and hoping there may be a slight chance you get lucky and find a guy that can eventually come off the bench for a few minutes a game.  We took the 6’4 chance over the 5’9 chance.

Isaiah Thomas

Strengths: Crafty scorer who can find holes in the defense … Passing skills have developed nicely over the past season … Has a knack for coming up big in the clutch … Good speed … Excellent quickness with a first step that allows him to blow by defenders … Natural leader … Measured better than expected at combine … Fantastic athletic aptitude with nice leaping ability … Able to deceive defenders with ball fakes while on the move … Able to get into the paint and create … Excellent at using his body to protect the ball from bigger, stronger opponents … Capable shooter with range to the three point line

Weaknesses: Very small, even for a point guard … Ability to get inside will be largely negated by the size of NBA players … Shoot first point guard who sometimes struggles with turnovers … Will struggle to matchup with NBA guards defensively … Sometimes hurts his team by trying to make highlight reel plays instead of making the simple pass … Prone to over-dribbling … Spent much of his time in college playing shooting guard … Will force his offense at times … Can get caught trying to leak out for fast breaks too often ...

E'twaun Moore

Strengths: A winner who leaves Purdue tied for the most wins (107) in program history in his 4 years … Productive and efficient player who put up good scoring totals … Has a nice jumper, and it is definitely the pillar of his offensive game … Can make shots spotting up, coming off screens, in isolation, and in the pick and roll … A quick, easy release and supreme confidence in his shot…Solid ability to make shots with a hand in his face …Very crafty and instinctive about how he creates his offense … Rarely seems rushed on the floor … Takes care of the ball…Possesses strong basic passing skills … Developed his ball-handling steadily over his career … Effective pick and roll player…Steady on-ball defender who plays with toughness and good fundamentals … Possesses a 6’9 wingspan that will help him on the defensive end, despite his mediocre athletic and physical tools

Weaknesses: Moore isn’t very athletic … Not very explosive or quick … Will struggle to drive the lane in the NBA, and will find it even harder to finish at the rim … 1st step is below average and ball-handling is mediocre at best … Struggled to get separation on his drives in college … Not going to break down anyone off the dribble…Has a hard time creating good shots when defended by more athletic defenders who can crowd him … Often will shoot highly contested pull-up jump shots when he can’t get to the rim … Mediocre to below average size for a SG ... Some teams may want him to be a combo guard, but he’s definitely not a PG … Won’t handle the ball as much as he did at Purdue … Can be inconsistent from game-to-game as a shooter … Can be beaten off the dribble by quick guards and savvy ball-handlers … Needs to get stronger and bigger to deal with the SG’s he’ll face in the pros

Notes: One of the most productive players in this draft and a classic overachiever, Moore could have a future as an off-ball shooter and steady defender in the NBA. He’s tough and comes from one of the best defensive teams in the NCAA. His below average athleticism and physical tools hold him back, but he’s winning pedigree and production could get him picked in the 2nd round.

You can’t look back at a draft and say why didn’t this guy get picked, like everyone should have known he would look like a fringe rotational player for 3 years, then become an all-star in his fourth year.    It’s the same thing with all this talk about missing out on the Greek Freak.   I was reading the boards then, but hadn’t joined yet, and it seemed like almost no one wanted to draft that guy.  He was playing in a really weak league and there were serious doubts that he could play in the NBA.  The same thing with Gobert his competition level was pretty bad and his stats weren’t as impressive as his size would make you think they should be.  Both those guys were able to succeed but it’s a crapshoot.   Olynyk was the better pick even though I’d take Gobert or the Greek Freak over him in a heartbeat.   I think back then if Gonzaga had won the national champion ship KO could have gone top 5 in place of either Cod Zeller or Alex Len, he’s been a better player then both of those guys as it is. 

The bottom line is that when Danny traded for IT, it was with the belief that he would be the back up to Smart.  He even said as much at one point after IT kept saying he wanted to be the starter.  It was Smart’s injury that opened the door for IT.  He is playing great now but he didn’t play at this level right away, he had to work on his game and then he had to get the minutes.   He was drafted 60th and traded twice because no one thought he could be this good. 

[Thruthelookingglass]

Good find, and I agree with your assessment of the decision.  Also,looking back, that's not a half bad scouting report on IT.

At that point in the draft you’re adding a camp body and hoping there may be a slight chance you get lucky and find a guy that can eventually come off the bench for a few minutes a game.  We took the 6’4 chance over the 5’9 chance.

Isaiah Thomas

Strengths: Crafty scorer who can find holes in the defense … Passing skills have developed nicely over the past season … Has a knack for coming up big in the clutch … Good speed … Excellent quickness with a first step that allows him to blow by defenders … Natural leader … Measured better than expected at combine … Fantastic athletic aptitude with nice leaping ability … Able to deceive defenders with ball fakes while on the move … Able to get into the paint and create … Excellent at using his body to protect the ball from bigger, stronger opponents … Capable shooter with range to the three point line

Weaknesses: Very small, even for a point guard … Ability to get inside will be largely negated by the size of NBA players … Shoot first point guard who sometimes struggles with turnovers … Will struggle to matchup with NBA guards defensively … Sometimes hurts his team by trying to make highlight reel plays instead of making the simple pass … Prone to over-dribbling … Spent much of his time in college playing shooting guard … Will force his offense at times … Can get caught trying to leak out for fast breaks too often ...

[liam]

Didn't we end up trading Moore? So if we drafted IT he'd probable be playing for another team.

[Celts Fan 508]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

Short list, I see what you did there... TP

[Granath]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

Short list, I see what you did there... TP

TP back to you. I was wondering if anyone would get that.   

[Neurotic Guy]

Good find, and I agree with your assessment of the decision.  Also,looking back, that's not a half bad scouting report on IT.

At that point in the draft you’re adding a camp body and hoping there may be a slight chance you get lucky and find a guy that can eventually come off the bench for a few minutes a game.  We took the 6’4 chance over the 5’9 chance.

Isaiah Thomas

Strengths: Crafty scorer who can find holes in the defense … Passing skills have developed nicely over the past season … Has a knack for coming up big in the clutch … Good speed … Excellent quickness with a first step that allows him to blow by defenders … Natural leader … Measured better than expected at combine … Fantastic athletic aptitude with nice leaping ability … Able to deceive defenders with ball fakes while on the move … Able to get into the paint and create … Excellent at using his body to protect the ball from bigger, stronger opponents … Capable shooter with range to the three point line

Weaknesses: Very small, even for a point guard … Ability to get inside will be largely negated by the size of NBA players … Shoot first point guard who sometimes struggles with turnovers … Will struggle to matchup with NBA guards defensively … Sometimes hurts his team by trying to make highlight reel plays instead of making the simple pass … Prone to over-dribbling … Spent much of his time in college playing shooting guard … Will force his offense at times … Can get caught trying to leak out for fast breaks too often ...

Not half-bad is an understatement.  I think this nails IT to a 'T'.  The strengths have obviously overwhelmed the weaknesses, but if you had to identify weaknesses, pretty much right on target.

[Redz]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

Short list, I see what you did there... TP

Very short even

[boscel33]

I can't tell if this is a trolling thread or if you're being serious.

He was passed up by every team in the league. 5'9" dudes don't excel in the NBA. Except two - Calvin Murphy and IT. That's a very short list.

No pun intended here, right?   

Seriously, according to DraftExpress, his mock draft positional history was never higher than 49.  E'twaun pushed briefly into the high 30's for a while. 

If we're going to be upset about missing a player from the 2011 draft, I'd rather be mad that we missed Butler, who was taken five picks after us in the first round. 

[mmmmm]

Good find, and I agree with your assessment of the decision.  Also,looking back, that's not a half bad scouting report on IT.

At that point in the draft you’re adding a camp body and hoping there may be a slight chance you get lucky and find a guy that can eventually come off the bench for a few minutes a game.  We took the 6’4 chance over the 5’9 chance.

Isaiah Thomas

Strengths: Crafty scorer who can find holes in the defense … Passing skills have developed nicely over the past season … Has a knack for coming up big in the clutch … Good speed … Excellent quickness with a first step that allows him to blow by defenders … Natural leader … Measured better than expected at combine … Fantastic athletic aptitude with nice leaping ability … Able to deceive defenders with ball fakes while on the move … Able to get into the paint and create … Excellent at using his body to protect the ball from bigger, stronger opponents … Capable shooter with range to the three point line

Weaknesses: Very small, even for a point guard … Ability to get inside will be largely negated by the size of NBA players … Shoot first point guard who sometimes struggles with turnovers … Will struggle to matchup with NBA guards defensively … Sometimes hurts his team by trying to make highlight reel plays instead of making the simple pass … Prone to over-dribbling … Spent much of his time in college playing shooting guard … Will force his offense at times … Can get caught trying to leak out for fast breaks too often ...

Not half-bad is an understatement.  I think this nails IT to a 'T'.  The strengths have obviously overwhelmed the weaknesses, but if you had to identify weaknesses, pretty much right on target.

Really?  I think most of the 'weaknesses' section has turned out to be complete crap.

Ability to get inside will be largely negated by the size of NBA players

No, it tends to mainly be negated when weaknesses on his own roster allows opposing teams to pack multiple bodies in the paint.  IT has never, ever been dissuaded from attacking the paint just because of 'size'.  In fact against teams that have a notable defensive 'big' like a DeAndre Jordan, Whiteside or Gobert, that they rely on too much by themselves to defend the paint, IT will tend to drive even more frequently.

Let's face it, in the NBA, almost _everyone_ looks like a tree to Thomas.  Yet Thomas, at 13.5 drives per game is just barely 2nd behind Dragic (13.6).   And Isaiah leads the NBA in points generated off of drives.

who sometimes struggles with turnovers

In a word:  No.   IT has ridiculously low turnover rates.  ESPECIALLY given his high USG% & AST% rates.  In the history of the game, there have been only two full seasons where a player has posted over 30% USG%, over 30% AST% and _under_ 10% TOV%.  T-Mac (2002-03) and Jordan (2001-02).  Thomas is on pace to be the third.

Prone to over-dribbling

Again:  No.

Thomas gets rid of the ball on each touch at an extremely fast rate, holding it an average of just 4.63 seconds per touch.  Among the top ball-handlers in the league (guys with at least 60 touches per game) , that is way down the list at 21st.  And he's just 20th in the league for dribbles-per-touch at just 4.5. 

Compared to guys like Wall (5.88 dribbles per touch), Barea (5., Jackson (5.74), Parker (5.62), Kemba (5.44), Ish Smith (5.4), Dragic (5.3), Teague (5.3), Conley (4.96), Rubio (4.96), D-Will (4.92), Chris Paul (4.91), E. Payton (4.91), Westbrook (4.89), etc., etc., Thomas barely touches the ball.

Sheesh - a guy like Wall holds on to the ball on average 30% more (total time of possession) in each game than Thomas does!

Yet Thomas _passes_ the ball as much as anyone.  He averages 59.3 passes per game, just barely behind Wall at 60.0 per game.   Basically, when IT gets the ball he either passes or attempts to score quickly.  The ball does not stick.

Holding on to the ball and dribbling excessively are measurably NOT parts of Thomas' game.

The other parts of the scouting report tend to be subjective and not things that can be measured.  But those parts that we can measure now don't line up with it at all.

Those things may have seemed true to the scout who wrote them way back when IT was still at the UW.  They are not true now at all.