The Celtics are officially championship contenders

[Tr1boy]

Celts are still far away. Playoff team yes.

[Vermont Green]

If you think about Tiers, I think it is likely that we will add an upgrade big through a trade; Monroe or Bogut or someone along that line.  If we do that, I think we could join that Toronto/Clippers tier (that is the Clippers without Blake Griffin) and whoever else you want to put in that tier below Golden State and Cleveland (Houston?, San Antonio?).  I am very happy with that all things considered.  Would love them to pull of a KG-type trade and join GSW and CLE but I don't see it happening.

[CelticPride2016]

Celts are still far away. Playoff team yes.

"Still far away" to me sounds subjective or ambiguous. But yes, we have at a minimum gone from a borderline eighth seed to last year's development as a sure bet to make playoffs from now to quite possibly the next ten+ years.

Far away could boil down to time rather than the need for Danny to do something big with the asset chip pile.

If you think about Tiers, I think it is likely that we will add an upgrade big through a trade; Monroe or Bogut or someone along that line.  If we do that, I think we could join that Toronto/Clippers tier (that is the Clippers without Blake Griffin) and whoever else you want to put in that tier below Golden State and Cleveland (Houston?, San Antonio?).  I am very happy with that all things considered.  Would love them to pull of a KG-type trade and join GSW and CLE but I don't see it happening.

I'll try this for the East.

Tier 1:
Cleveland

Tier 2:
Toronto
Boston

Tier 3:
Milwaukee
Charlotte
Atlanta
Chicago
Indiana
Washington

Tier 4:
Detroit
New York
Orlando

Tier 5:
Philadelphia
Miami
Brooklyn

I guess we could get even more nerdy and add half tiers. So Philly becomes a stretch four. Maybe we are a stretch two and still have some proving to do before we are up there with Toronto.

Some teams like Detroit and New York could be stretch threes. They are at the door of mediocrity.

The wild card for us is team atmosphere and a system which facilitates inside growth. Maybe Doc got an unfair bad reputation for developing players (i.e. coaching), but the new Celtics style makes it much more interesting to monitor individual player development. I doubt Doc would have kept playing Jaylen almost every game. I'm not sure Marcus Smart would have seen the court so much.

The new Celtics are all about pushing ceilings upward. Brandon Bass got better under Stevens. Isaiah has improved.

We have the perfect coach for the rebuild. I think Brad probably costs us some wins with his annual experimentation. Think of his starting Zeller and Lee. But I have come around that it's fine to lose some games in order to accumulate data on the entire roster.

One of the best parts of this rebuild is watching Danny and Brad put together a balanced roster. The only driftwood I see right now is Zeller and Young. They are the only two players I have little to no hope they can help.

Maybe Danny won't be able to move Zeller, but it was clever to add that sort of contract to enable trades. No one minds a contract that is running out. Gerald Wallace was the last albatross contract. We were looking at three straight years of a sunken $10 million in roster space.

Yabusele, Zizac and even Nader seem to have NBA futures. I think Jordan Mickey is a neutral asset. He is an incomplete. But that's okay, because he is not a Fab Melo or possibly James Young simply taking up space.

Basically the asset base is growing.

We are entering the tier in which the rich get richer. So it might be more about being patient than in how Danny can consolidate and transform the roster into a so-called final product.

Without making any moves, we are at a minimum destined to be overflowing with talent 1-15 and perhaps that will be 1-18 counting stashes. We could end up like Belichick's Patriots. Perhaps if we could fast forward ten years, we would see tons of articles making us sound like the Spurs. Other cities will envy our ability to keep on keeping on easily replacing players like Belichick has had a knack for.

[Chief]

Celts are still far away. Playoff team yes.

"Still far away" to me sounds subjective or ambiguous. But yes, we have at a minimum gone from a borderline eighth seed to last year's development as a sure bet to make playoffs from now to quite possibly the next ten+ years.

Far away could boil down to time rather than the need for Danny to do something big with the asset chip pile.

If you think about Tiers, I think it is likely that we will add an upgrade big through a trade; Monroe or Bogut or someone along that line.  If we do that, I think we could join that Toronto/Clippers tier (that is the Clippers without Blake Griffin) and whoever else you want to put in that tier below Golden State and Cleveland (Houston?, San Antonio?).  I am very happy with that all things considered.  Would love them to pull of a KG-type trade and join GSW and CLE but I don't see it happening.

I'll try this for the East.

Tier 1:
Cleveland

Tier 2:
Toronto
Boston

Tier 3:
Milwaukee
Charlotte
Atlanta
Chicago
Indiana
Washington

Tier 4:
Detroit
New York
Orlando

Tier 5:
Philadelphia
Miami
Brooklyn

I guess we could get even more nerdy and add half tiers. So Philly becomes a stretch four. Maybe we are a stretch two and still have some proving to do before we are up there with Toronto.

Some teams like Detroit and New York could be stretch threes. They are at the door of mediocrity.

The wild card for us is team atmosphere and a system which facilitates inside growth. Maybe Doc got an unfair bad reputation for developing players (i.e. coaching), but the new Celtics style makes it much more interesting to monitor individual player development. I doubt Doc would have kept playing Jaylen almost every game. I'm not sure Marcus Smart would have seen the court so much.

The new Celtics are all about pushing ceilings upward. Brandon Bass got better under Stevens. Isaiah has improved.

We have the perfect coach for the rebuild. I think Brad probably costs us some wins with his annual experimentation. Think of his starting Zeller and Lee. But I have come around that it's fine to lose some games in order to accumulate data on the entire roster.

One of the best parts of this rebuild is watching Danny and Brad put together a balanced roster. The only driftwood I see right now is Zeller and Young. They are the only two players I have little to no hope they can help.

Maybe Danny won't be able to move Zeller, but it was clever to add that sort of contract to enable trades. No one minds a contract that is running out. Gerald Wallace was the last albatross contract. We were looking at three straight years of a sunken $10 million in roster space.

Yabusele, Zizac and even Nader seem to have NBA futures. I think Jordan Mickey is a neutral asset. He is an incomplete. But that's okay, because he is not a Fab Melo or possibly James Young simply taking up space.

Basically the asset base is growing.

We are entering the tier in which the rich get richer. So it might be more about being patient than in how Danny can consolidate and transform the roster into a so-called final product.

Without making any moves, we are at a minimum destined to be overflowing with talent 1-15 and perhaps that will be 1-18 counting stashes. We could end up like Belichick's Patriots. Perhaps if we could fast forward ten years, we would see tons of articles making us sound like the Spurs. Other cities will envy our ability to keep on keeping on easily replacing players like Belichick has had a knack for.

I can't put the Celtics in the same Tier as Toronto until we beat them.

[green_bballers13]

I think there is a blank tier between CLE and TOR/BOS. They are that much better.

I love the optimism. I just don't agree that they are officially championship contenders. Wouldn't they have to beat one (1) very good team just one time to start thinking this?

Celts are still far away. Playoff team yes.

"Still far away" to me sounds subjective or ambiguous. But yes, we have at a minimum gone from a borderline eighth seed to last year's development as a sure bet to make playoffs from now to quite possibly the next ten+ years.

Far away could boil down to time rather than the need for Danny to do something big with the asset chip pile.

If you think about Tiers, I think it is likely that we will add an upgrade big through a trade; Monroe or Bogut or someone along that line.  If we do that, I think we could join that Toronto/Clippers tier (that is the Clippers without Blake Griffin) and whoever else you want to put in that tier below Golden State and Cleveland (Houston?, San Antonio?).  I am very happy with that all things considered.  Would love them to pull of a KG-type trade and join GSW and CLE but I don't see it happening.

I'll try this for the East.

Tier 1:
Cleveland

Tier 2:
Toronto
Boston

Tier 3:
Milwaukee
Charlotte
Atlanta
Chicago
Indiana
Washington

Tier 4:
Detroit
New York
Orlando

Tier 5:
Philadelphia
Miami
Brooklyn

I guess we could get even more nerdy and add half tiers. So Philly becomes a stretch four. Maybe we are a stretch two and still have some proving to do before we are up there with Toronto.

Some teams like Detroit and New York could be stretch threes. They are at the door of mediocrity.

The wild card for us is team atmosphere and a system which facilitates inside growth. Maybe Doc got an unfair bad reputation for developing players (i.e. coaching), but the new Celtics style makes it much more interesting to monitor individual player development. I doubt Doc would have kept playing Jaylen almost every game. I'm not sure Marcus Smart would have seen the court so much.

The new Celtics are all about pushing ceilings upward. Brandon Bass got better under Stevens. Isaiah has improved.

We have the perfect coach for the rebuild. I think Brad probably costs us some wins with his annual experimentation. Think of his starting Zeller and Lee. But I have come around that it's fine to lose some games in order to accumulate data on the entire roster.

One of the best parts of this rebuild is watching Danny and Brad put together a balanced roster. The only driftwood I see right now is Zeller and Young. They are the only two players I have little to no hope they can help.

Maybe Danny won't be able to move Zeller, but it was clever to add that sort of contract to enable trades. No one minds a contract that is running out. Gerald Wallace was the last albatross contract. We were looking at three straight years of a sunken $10 million in roster space.

Yabusele, Zizac and even Nader seem to have NBA futures. I think Jordan Mickey is a neutral asset. He is an incomplete. But that's okay, because he is not a Fab Melo or possibly James Young simply taking up space.

Basically the asset base is growing.

We are entering the tier in which the rich get richer. So it might be more about being patient than in how Danny can consolidate and transform the roster into a so-called final product.

Without making any moves, we are at a minimum destined to be overflowing with talent 1-15 and perhaps that will be 1-18 counting stashes. We could end up like Belichick's Patriots. Perhaps if we could fast forward ten years, we would see tons of articles making us sound like the Spurs. Other cities will envy our ability to keep on keeping on easily replacing players like Belichick has had a knack for.

[CelticPride2016]

"I can't put the Celtics in the same Tier as Toronto until we beat them."

This is somewhat true. It's starting to feel like the Bruins never being able to beat the Canadiens.

Or the Red Sox pre-2004.

I'm happy we've made separation from the teams below Cleveland and Toronto.

We also seem to improve every year for second halves.

Like someone else said, our current team is nothing to sneeze at.

The counterpoint to your argument would be that we were beating down Toronto until the collapse.

There doesn't seem to be much separation between us and them, but they are still a couple games ahead, have been a top team for a number of years now, and you're right, we need to start beating them, even if it's just a win is a win is a win. We have proven we can compete with them. It would be nice to not feel cursed in regards to the Raptors.

We need to worry about us. If the Celtics take care of their own business and keep improving, then bring on the playoffs and see how the dice fall. Even if neither team wins it all, the best playoff series could turn out to be Boston - Toronto. It would be pure basketball. The Celtics have more than enough time to catch up to and even pass the Raptors. It might happen. It wouldn't be some crazy anomaly. I think it's a fluke we lost the last game to them.

That should have been a win. Coulda shoulda woulda.

We won't have to wait long for the next opportunity. It's Celtics at Toronto on February 1. If we win, I'll start a thread called The Celtics are officially on the same tier with Toronto.

[Ilikesports17]

"I can't put the Celtics in the same Tier as Toronto until we beat them."

This is somewhat true. It's starting to feel like the Bruins never being able to beat the Canadiens.

Or the Red Sox pre-2004.

I'm happy we've made separation from the teams below Cleveland and Toronto.

We also seem to improve every year for second halves.

Like someone else said, our current team is nothing to sneeze at.

The counterpoint to your argument would be that we were beating down Toronto until the collapse.

There doesn't seem to be much separation between us and them, but they are still a couple games ahead, have been a top team for a number of years now, and you're right, we need to start beating them, even if it's just a win is a win is a win. We have proven we can compete with them. It would be nice to not feel cursed in regards to the Raptors.

We need to worry about us. If the Celtics take care of their own business and keep improving, then bring on the playoffs and see how the dice fall. Even if neither team wins it all, the best playoff series could turn out to be Boston - Toronto. It would be pure basketball. The Celtics have more than enough time to catch up to and even pass the Raptors. It might happen. It wouldn't be some crazy anomaly. I think it's a fluke we lost the last game to them.

That should have been a win. Coulda shoulda woulda.

We won't have to wait long for the next opportunity. It's Celtics at Toronto on February 1. If we win, I'll start a thread called The Celtics are officially on the same tier with Toronto.

If they lose will you start one that called The Celtics are officially a tier below Toronto?

[CelticPride2016]

I think there is a blank tier between CLE and TOR/BOS. They are that much better.

I love the optimism. I just don't agree that they are officially championship contenders. Wouldn't they have to beat one (1) very good team just one time to start thinking this?

We only got abused by Golden State. We have been feisty in all the other losses to elites.

We have had the injury card.

We had signature wins over Memphis and Utah.

I concede there is a leap to be made to get wins against the best of the best.

The next opportunity to quell doubts is Houston at home on January 25th.

I wish we could count some of the big wins against top teams from the last few year. That would help my cause.

No one can guarantee success or failure. That's why we end up with butterflies in our stomachs and chew off fingernails. Maybe it is a defensive mechanism to expect the worst. I'd rather be a bit vulnerable and escape into the fantasy world of upsets and Cinderella dreams.

I am kind of like Isaiah for confidence. The more people continue to be negative and express doubts, I visualize what looks like a future appointment with success.

How can anyone question our ability to get out of the first round? What kind of fan is that? And the answer isn't a realist. People should save that doom and gloom for the Knicks, Bulls, Hawks and Pacers.

I wish people would be more supportive of the accomplishments already made and not keep anticipating failure.

We still have four home games to make up. If we beat Houston at home and somehow continue this steamrolling over the mediocre, we will become the talk of the league. We just have to stay healthy.

We are now 12-6 at home. It seemed like we were at .500 for the longest time to go with the solid road record.

I'm surprised more people are not in awe of our situation.

A lot of people seem to want us to fail because they are fixated on the ideas of mediocrity and treadmills. We were an overachieving 48 win team last year. Perhaps with Horford added to that we are a 50 win team. That sort of thing.

I can relate to Jae Crowder. It seems nothing is ever good enough for some people.

[Vermont Green]

I can't put the Celtics in the same Tier as Toronto until we beat them.

I agree.  Toronto is closer to Houston, Clippers, San Antonio and we are closer to Memphis, Indiana, OKC....  We are at the top of that tier but still not quite in the next tier either.  We are close and these tiers are never exact, just a way to illustrate a point.  The point being we are not even in the second tier, much less the top tier as would be needed to contend for a championship now.

[CelticPride2016]

We are number four in the power rankings.

Toronto is 2-0 against Boston, but in their last matchup, the C's were without Avery Bradley and still played the Raptors tough. So I'm giving them the "good loss" mark and factoring in that they've won eight of 10. Isaiah Thomas continues to be the best clutch time performer in the league this season, though there are some alarming numbers about the fourth-quarter defense when he's on the court.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankings/

Negative, miserable fans are missing out on a good show.

[CelticPride2016]

This is good. The Raptors are at sixth and might be as good as us and Houston. And he mentions tiers proving all my points.

The Raptors will climb higher than this in the next two weeks. They're right there with Boston and Houston on a tier of really good teams. Their defense is starting to pick itself up off the dirt and they're in a great position for the second half of the season.

[Monkhouse]

I think there is a blank tier between CLE and TOR/BOS. They are that much better.

I love the optimism. I just don't agree that they are officially championship contenders. Wouldn't they have to beat one (1) very good team just one time to start thinking this?

We only got abused by Golden State. We have been feisty in all the other losses to elites.

We have had the injury card.

We had signature wins over Memphis and Utah.

I concede there is a leap to be made to get wins against the best of the best.

The next opportunity to quell doubts is Houston at home on January 25th.

I wish we could count some of the big wins against top teams from the last few year. That would help my cause.

No one can guarantee success or failure. That's why we end up with butterflies in our stomachs and chew off fingernails. Maybe it is a defensive mechanism to expect the worst. I'd rather be a bit vulnerable and escape into the fantasy world of upsets and Cinderella dreams.

I am kind of like Isaiah for confidence. The more people continue to be negative and express doubts, I visualize what looks like a future appointment with success.

How can anyone question our ability to get out of the first round? What kind of fan is that? And the answer isn't a realist. People should save that doom and gloom for the Knicks, Bulls, Hawks and Pacers.

I wish people would be more supportive of the accomplishments already made and not keep anticipating failure.

We still have four home games to make up. If we beat Houston at home and somehow continue this steamrolling over the mediocre, we will become the talk of the league. We just have to stay healthy.

We are now 12-6 at home. It seemed like we were at .500 for the longest time to go with the solid road record.

I'm surprised more people are not in awe of our situation.

A lot of people seem to want us to fail because they are fixated on the ideas of mediocrity and treadmills. We were an overachieving 48 win team last year. Perhaps with Horford added to that we are a 50 win team. That sort of thing.

I can relate to Jae Crowder. It seems nothing is ever good enough for some people.

Sometimes we tend to think of as pessimists, and optimists. Both aren't negative entirely, just flaws in conceptual ways of analyzing things or seeing two sides of the coin.

I'm excited to be the only team in the NBA with a chance at ECF, and possibly have a top 3 pick.

[ThePaintedArea]

We are number four in the power rankings.


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankings/

Negative, miserable fans are missing out on a good show.

Not "the" power rankings - one guy's opinion.  Mark Stein has an equally subjective power rankings (Boston is sixth), ESPN also have BPI, which at least uses objective measures (C's are 8th in that one), and there are no doubt others.

[CelticPride2016]

Sometimes we tend to think of as pessimists, and optimists. Both aren't negative entirely, just flaws in conceptual ways of analyzing things or seeing two sides of the coin.

I'm excited to be the only team in the NBA with a chance at ECF, and possibly have a top 3 pick.

Yes, my excessive verbiage is in no way meant to be a caricature of an over-the-top deluded fan.

I have couched my outlook in regards to specific what ifs.

E.G., we need strong performances out of Amir, Kelly and Marcus. Horford is competent, but no man is an island.

Isaiah needed to can it with his turnovers and shoot better.

Crowder needed to show that last year wasn't a fluke.

Jaylen Brown needs to show competence for a rookie, so that we have a backup for Jae.

There are a lot of ifs.

26-15 means that most of the ifs seem to be currently working out in our favor.

And you make a strong case for exactly what is going on. We could make it to the ECF. I say beyond with no ceiling, but you acknowledge we are competing as a top three team in the conference while the Nets are also allowing us to tank through them. It is a unique experience which will probably take a few more years to reveal itself.

[CelticPride2016]

We are number four in the power rankings.


http://www.cbssports.com/nba/powerrankings/

Negative, miserable fans are missing out on a good show.

Not "the" power rankings - one guy's opinion.  Mark Stein has an equally subjective power rankings (Boston is sixth), ESPN also have BPI, which at least uses objective measures (C's are 8th in that one), and there are no doubt others.

I guess I was lazy and should have put in the disclaimer that it is one guy from CBS and that there are other rankings with us further down the list.

I was shocked he puts us ahead of Houston considering their elite won loss record. But I'll take it.

I saw one thread emerged overnight and is already locked. The post said Olynyk is Mr. Softie and let's trade him. Talk about bad timing.

I also for kicks skimmed through the game thread. It seems that the negative Celtics fans have taken over that format and it skews the fan base. Perhaps the irrational negativity is driving others away from participating. I had stopped reading them. Someone mentioned them a couple games ago. I checked it out and it was true. The majority of people camped out there were miserable. I guess at the time we had won 11 out of 14, so yet again, it seems many are not timing their opinions with reality.

I bet a lot of those fans drooling over Kelly last night have been the same ones calling him soft and no good.

I used to be that way with Evan Turner. I was that way with the young Bradley. I am still that way with Zeller and Young, but I am trying to give guys the chance to dig themselves out of the scrub tier. I was excessively negative about Gerald Green until the last month.

I am learning to think like Brad and Danny, that it is not about one game or a small stretch of games. Accurate player analysis takes a lot of time.

Most players enter the league as scrubs and even more so since the top picks all seem to be 19.

I checked and saw that Isaiah played three years of college.

I wonder what kind of career Perk could have had if he played college ball. He used to put up big numbers in high school.

Sure he had stone hands and always found a way to mess up a great opportunity at the rim. But there was a time when Perk was a guaranteed ten points a game to go with his better than average center defense.

So there will always be a lot of doubt, what ifs, and no one knows scenarios until the stuff actually plays itself out.