Author Topic: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?  (Read 18074 times)

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Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2017, 10:23:26 PM »

Offline Cman

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The Buzzfeed dossier was garbage, and in multiple places contained verifiably untrue "facts".

Despite CNN's reporting - which in one story referenced Buzzfeed and it's inaccurate dossier 15 times - other news agencies have indicated that Trump was never briefed on the matter. 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-not-briefed-document-explosive-151349072.html

Fake news, built on fake news. CNN was less irresponsible than Buzzfeed, but both were irresponsible and published inaccurate "facts". I also think that CNN's pool reporter should have been tossed out of the room for interrupting at the press conference. He's not entitled to a question.

And lastly, Obama attacked Fox News as an entity many times, including blaming bars playing Fox News as one of the reasons Hillary lost. Turnabout is fair play, especially with the dubious rumor mongering.

I thought it would be "but Hillary..." but instead it was a "but Obama..."

Trump has basically taken the dial on media cynicism and ratcheted it up tenfold.
As a result, people don't know what to believe and just don't care anymore.

The proof will be in the pudding, so to speak. Will job creation continue to rise or accelerate under Trump? If so, he gets a second term. If not, someone else is elected president. I think it's as simple as that. In the meantime, I hope he doesn't screw things up too much, and will try to reserve
judgement, but it's hard.

In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....
Celtics fan for life.

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2017, 10:25:50 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Stuff like this does bother me but no one seems to give a [dang] anymore.

I'm past the point of thinking what might finally get people outrage now.  This past election cycle has pushed that envelope so far off the edge.

The media is responsible for a big part of it.......

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2017, 11:59:47 PM »

Offline MBunge

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2017, 12:17:40 AM »

Offline Cman

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

For the record, I think Trumps idea of "running the economy" is garbage. He's trying to pick winners. The better way is to set policy and then let the winners emerge.

I know, I know "But Obama and Solyndra..." to which there are many responses, but the simplest is that if you didn't like that then why in the world would you like Trumps approach.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2017, 12:19:45 AM »

Offline fantankerous

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

I agree with all of this.  But... 1) overwhelmingly, more jobs have been lost to automation than outsourcing.  And, 2) on a macro level, the higher cost of American labor will increase costs of consumer goods and raw materials.  Socialism or barbarism. 

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2017, 07:56:53 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

I agree with all of this.  But... 1) overwhelmingly, more jobs have been lost to automation than outsourcing.  And, 2) on a macro level, the higher cost of American labor will increase costs of consumer goods and raw materials.  Socialism or barbarism.

Also, umm, how many jobs were saved by the auto industry bailout?

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2017, 09:16:34 AM »

Online slamtheking

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

I agree with all of this.  But... 1) overwhelmingly, more jobs have been lost to automation than outsourcing.  And, 2) on a macro level, the higher cost of American labor will increase costs of consumer goods and raw materials.  Socialism or barbarism.

Also, umm, how many jobs were saved by the auto industry bailout?
I don't credit Trump for the job-save with Carrier as much as it was Pence using his position as Governor to push the tax breaks for that company.

Also, the bailouts that Obama pushed through for the auto and banking industries when he was handed the financial meltdown from Bush were a bigger key in saving jobs than what Trump will end up saving. 

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2017, 09:18:51 AM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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I suppose the media will handle it the same way they did for all the  lies from every other president.  Really who was the last truly honest president?  I teach American history and I can only think of three presidents that I believe were honest men:  Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Jimmy Carter.

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2017, 09:22:50 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

I agree with all of this.  But... 1) overwhelmingly, more jobs have been lost to automation than outsourcing.  And, 2) on a macro level, the higher cost of American labor will increase costs of consumer goods and raw materials.  Socialism or barbarism.

Also, umm, how many jobs were saved by the auto industry bailout?
I don't credit Trump for the job-save with Carrier as much as it was Pence using his position as Governor to push the tax breaks for that company.

Also, the bailouts that Obama pushed through for the auto and banking industries when he was handed the financial meltdown from Bush were a bigger key in saving jobs than what Trump will end up saving.

Exactly. Given the global and national problems at the start of hos preidency as well as the irrational opposition at all costs agenda, Obama will be judged by history as one of the greatest presidents weve had.

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2017, 09:30:01 AM »

Offline MBunge

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

For the record, I think Trumps idea of "running the economy" is garbage. He's trying to pick winners. The better way is to set policy and then let the winners emerge.

I know, I know "But Obama and Solyndra..." to which there are many responses, but the simplest is that if you didn't like that then why in the world would you like Trumps approach.

I'm not a fan of the government picking winners and losers, but I am a fan of the government protecting the livelihood of American citizens and promoting research into science and technology.  Isn't that what it's there for?

Mike

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2017, 09:36:35 AM »

Offline MBunge

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

I agree with all of this.  But... 1) overwhelmingly, more jobs have been lost to automation than outsourcing.  And, 2) on a macro level, the higher cost of American labor will increase costs of consumer goods and raw materials.  Socialism or barbarism.


But it's not that black or white, which is what my original point was about.  We can do SOME things to protect American jobs without destroying the global economy.  Maybe we can't do everything, but we can do SOMETHING.

Mike

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2017, 09:43:34 AM »

Offline MBunge

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

I agree with all of this.  But... 1) overwhelmingly, more jobs have been lost to automation than outsourcing.  And, 2) on a macro level, the higher cost of American labor will increase costs of consumer goods and raw materials.  Socialism or barbarism.

Also, umm, how many jobs were saved by the auto industry bailout?

I give Obama immense credit for that and for leading this nation out of a crisis almost entirely the fault of our elites.  By the way, I believe Trump also supported the auto bailout at first but I think he's changed his story on that several times since then.  I think one of the biggest blank spots in our political memory is that if McCain had won in 2008, there is a good chance we would have gotten zero stimulus and the auto bailout may not have happened.

But as the old saying goes..."What have you done for me lately?"

Obama saved us from that elite-created catastrophe but then could never separate himself from those elites.  Even granting his limited ability to do anything because of mindless GOP obstructionism, he could have at least TALKED about the serious problems of income stagnation, wealth inequality, etc.  Instead, he stayed essentially mum.

Mike

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2017, 10:07:18 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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In the meantime, I suspect the rich will get much richer. The middleclasss, working class, and poor will get shafted, but we will all be told "it's better this way" or "it's Obamas fault". 

Ok, queue the "but Hillary " responses....

In case you missed it, that's pretty much what happened the last eight years.  And the eight years before that.  And the eight years before that.  I have very little faith in Trump but I do think he stands a good chance of accomplishing one thing, and that is to shatter the neoliberal consensus that severely limits our political discourse.

The Carrier deal is an example of what I mean.  While it's obviously important to the people whose jobs were saved, it means little to the overall economy.  What's significant about it is that it proves a principle we've been forced to live by for decades is and has been garbage.  All the delicate geniuses in economics told us over and over that we can't do anything about outsourcing, we can't do anything about jobs going to other countries, because that's just how the global economy works and we're helpless against it.

Trump proved that's a lie.  We can do something about it.  We could always do something about it.  We just chose not to.  Obama could have saved those jobs.  Hillary could have saved those jobs.  They simply chose not to.  And perhaps that decision was correct in macroeconomic terms but at least we now know that there's an actual decision being made, rather than continuing this myth that there is only one way to run the economy.

Mike

For the record, I think Trumps idea of "running the economy" is garbage. He's trying to pick winners. The better way is to set policy and then let the winners emerge.

I know, I know "But Obama and Solyndra..." to which there are many responses, but the simplest is that if you didn't like that then why in the world would you like Trumps approach.

I'm not a fan of the government picking winners and losers, but I am a fan of the government protecting the livelihood of American citizens and promoting research into science and technology.  Isn't that what it's there for?

Mike

This would be...incredibly ideal. Agree 100%. In fact, publicly owned patents would be a huge boon to society and national economic health. I foresee a 0% chance of actual effective, valuable, meaningful science and technological research being supported for at least the next 4 years. We are currently entering the most anti-science, anti-research, anti-evidence president and cabinet perhaps of history, not to mention anti-public funding.

Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2017, 10:11:30 AM »

Online Donoghus

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Stuff like this does bother me but no one seems to give a [dang] anymore.

I'm past the point of thinking what might finally get people outrage now.  This past election cycle has pushed that envelope so far off the edge.

The media is responsible for a big part of it.......

So are a lot of ignorant people.


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Re: How Is The Media Going To Handle Outright Lies From DJT & Surrogates?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2017, 10:31:17 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Stuff like this does bother me but no one seems to give a [dang] anymore.

I'm past the point of thinking what might finally get people outrage now.  This past election cycle has pushed that envelope so far off the edge.

The media is responsible for a big part of it.......

So are a lot of ignorant people.

I ran into a family friend recently who about 8 yrs ago transitioned from being a newspaper editor into a campaign manager/PR guy for a local politician. He's a republican and I got to talking to him about how the media and election went, and when I brought up how much i hated Donald Trump's "the press is out to get me" narrative, he thought it was a pretty naive stance. He pointed out that every single politician learns to blame the press early and often in their career, and he gave up his greatest hits from when he was a young politics reporter in Virginia and Delaware, saying that politicians have been lying and blaming the press since there was press. He said the difference is that the people are believing Trump, and that's what should be concerning. I feel like I'm not relaying the story well, but it made sense to me.

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