Author Topic: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)  (Read 18712 times)

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Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2017, 05:09:37 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I don't know if you guys watch First Take, but yesterday I was watching a segment on YouTube in which they were discussing, "Carmelo Anthony's future".

Stephen A Smith made a BOLD PREDICTION that Melo will not be a Knick after this summer, and thinks it's even possible he gets dealt by next month.

What I found most interesting: Max and Stephen A were discussing teams he should to, and while the Clippers were the "obvious" and "favorite" choice, SAS mentioned Boston and how Melo could be one of their missing pieces. Max Kellerman also agreed and said pair Melo with IT and the C's have their #2 scorer as well as a mentor to Jaylen Brown and such.

Melo alone obviously won't get us to legitimate contender status, but with Zizic coming over, 2017 Nets Pick and likely a FA-BIG signing (Noel/Ibaka/Millsap). How would you view that potential team?
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2017, 05:18:24 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Only deal I'll ever do with those sorry Knicks is for KP. That guy is worth a Nets pick and a half.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2017, 05:21:17 PM »

Offline Granath

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Carmelo for Avery Bradley Jerebko Johnson & BOS/MEM 1st

2012-2013 Carmelo led the league in scoring (29ppg 7rpg), led the knicks to the 2nd seed in the east (with noone around him), and was 3rd in MVP voting as the starting PF.  Carmelo is 6-8 240lb's so hes a small ball PF whose not small.  Playing the PF IMO would also infinitely better suit him defensively. 

Lineup:
Isaiah
Smart
Crowder
Anthony
Horford

Anthony was the best player every time he played for team USA.  I understand the skepticism on defense but IMO the "ball stopper" "iso" tags are a function of the team he plays for.  I think hes more than capable of fitting into a team system.

In 2001 Allen Iverson scored 31ppg. Let's sign him!!!   >:(

Using statistics from half a decade ago isn't impressive. Melo is a 32 year old player who doesn't play defense and whose shooting / scoring ability is on the decline. People rail that IT is a volume shooter but at least his TS% is .617. Melo has been at .530 and .537 the last two years. His scoring, rebounding, assists, defensive win shares, FG%, 2 point percentage, free throws, steals blocks are all below his career averages. He's going to cost $54 million dollars the next two years. He is the epitome of a player who is in decline who will be (already is) overpaid.

Even if you don't believe his ball-hogging, no-defensive reputation (which is well-earned IMO) you're still trading for someone who has shown serious decline in their game the last 12-18 months. His game isn't the kind that's going to be an asset on the court when he can't score prodigiously - he offers virtually nothing else. It also costs the team any cap flexibility to acquire any significant FAs. Defensively the Cs would be far, far worse and we already have a guy (IT) who needs the ball in his hands to succeed.

Trading Jae and picks for Melo? No thanks. Desperate grabs at aging players is what cost Brooklyn their picks. I'd prefer to hold on to ours and use them to acquire someone who might actually be useful when we celebrate the next New Years Day.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2017, 05:26:47 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Horrible Fit!  Too much in his game and he does not play D.  In many ways he is the anti=Celtic.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2017, 05:30:56 PM »

Offline JOMVP

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Horrible Fit!  Too much in his game and he does not play D.  In many ways he is the anti=Celtic.

Celts havent been playing much D this year... they have been more interested in trying to outscore people. Maybe that makes him a better fit than we thought?

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #80 on: January 20, 2017, 05:39:33 PM »

Offline Granath

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Obviously it needs to keep being said because you guys won't quit with the Melo ideas, but he's old, washed up, and has always been an inefficient volume scorer who doesn't defend.  Crowder right now is better, and is on an incredible value of a contract.  In two years Crowder will still be good, and Melo will be a version of Paul Pierce this year. (Sorry Paul, but you should have retired.)

Melo is 32, Pierce is 39. At 34 (08/09), Pierce averaged 20.5pts/5.6rbs/3.5asts. He went on to play 4 more years at a pretty similar clip (including a Finals berth and an ECF series against Miami). I actually think those two athletes are a good comparison - they're a similar size and have a similar game. Melo is actually, probably, a slightly better offensive player and rebounder. When unmotivated, both can be selfish, lazy and bad defenders.

Melo's contract ends in, what, 2 years after this season, so he'd be about 35 by then. At which point we could let him go and expect his productivity to be in decline anyway.

And come on - Jae Crowder is not a better player than Carmelo. Better defender, sure, but let's stop acting like Jae is anything close to Tony Allen or Kawhi defensively.

EDIT: Gonna leave this here for further reference on the Pierce / Melo comparison. Basic stats, but still:

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/carmelo_anthony_vs_paul_pierce.htm

PP was 31 in 08/09 - not 34. That kind of busts your entire analysis above.

Let us look at PP at 32.

In 09/10, when PP was 32 and playing with two other HOFers, he was effective but no longer really a #1 option. 2010 was his last All-Star game. His last All-League was 08/09. He was 09/10 and 10/11 were truly his last two good seasons and those still weren't as good s the prime of his career. After that pretty much everything was in decline and his TS% kind of falls off a cliff. He was okay until 35 but at that point he's getting to be a 3rd option in the offense. And most of that was with Rajon Rondo feeding him the ball - a guy who would pass up a layup to get someone else an assist (he averaged over 11 assists in 3 of 4 of those years and led the league twice). That's pretty much the best case scenario for an aging PP and he still wasn't as effective. 

So this myth of playing "4 more years at a similar clip" isn't true at all. He was already playing at a diminished capacity and continued to decline. Now, let's move to Anthony. He's 32 now. His stats have taken a similar dive already. His contract has two more years to run after this year at $53m. Are you prepared to pay $27m for a #3 option in 2018/19 and knowing you lost a valuable draft pick/players (remember Crowder's OUTSTANDING contract) to do so?

Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #81 on: January 20, 2017, 05:53:38 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Should be noted that today Melo said he'd be open to a trade if that's what New York wants. Let the trade rumors begin. Personally, I still think he'd be a good small ball four for us, though I'm not giving up too much at all to get him.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244657/Carmelo-Anthony-Will-Consider-Leaving-If-Knicks-Prefer-Trade

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #82 on: January 20, 2017, 06:07:02 PM »

Offline JOMVP

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Should be noted that today Melo said he'd be open to a trade if that's what New York wants. Let the trade rumors begin. Personally, I still think he'd be a good small ball four for us, though I'm not giving up too much at all to get him.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244657/Carmelo-Anthony-Will-Consider-Leaving-If-Knicks-Prefer-Trade

I think Phil is going to be surprised at the kind of offers he gets from teams for Carmelo. He isnt a transcendant atar anymore. I'd probably.make an offer surrounding the 2018 pick. But I do agree about being a small ball 4, but he would have to start at the 3 and will Crowder like that? I dont think I'm offering Crowder in a Carmelo package though because we'd miss the defense Jae provides.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2017, 06:24:16 PM »

Offline vgulab

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Somehow i have the impression that Carmelo wouldn't agree on a move to Boston. Even if he leaves Knicks i think it would be somewhere he would have to agree on. Melo proved in the past that a ring isn't a priority for him. I just don't think there is even the smallest possibility that Melo would ever be a Celtic

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2017, 06:58:44 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Maybe that makes him a better fit than we thought?

I am sure there are plenty of people on both sides but do not include me in that we, he is a poor fit for us.  He would kill ball movement.   He is a iso dinosaur who has never led an NBA deep.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2017, 07:07:46 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Maybe that makes him a better fit than we thought?

I am sure there are plenty of people on both sides but do not include me in that we, he is a poor fit for us.  He would kill ball movement.   He is a iso dinosaur who has never led an NBA deep.

Agree.  About the most overrated player out there.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2017, 08:12:52 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Not a fan of the idea. How was he in team USA though? I'm not the biggest follower of the olympics but id say that's about as close to "team play" Melo has ever been around.
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Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2017, 07:50:46 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Listening to Mike Gorman on the radio this AM on Celtics @7 on 98.5. Says there is a prevalent thought in C's basketball operations that Carmelo would be a fantastic fit in the C's system.

Not exactly how I wanted to start my Saturday.

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2017, 08:40:08 AM »

Offline SRaposa33

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This is a no-brainer. I'm really getting amped on this and I hope Melo would accept a trade to Boston and that the situation in NY is bad enough that Phil would trade him. People love to talk smack but he's one of the most talented scorers of the last 10 years and is still getting it done at a high level, though he's no spring chicken - but not old, or done. He seems like an honest, mature-if outspoken, hard-working player to me and I think he would fit in well and the city and Celtics fans would embrace him.

It's so hard for guys to win in their hometown and Melo certainly doesn't have the same backing LeBron did to accomplish the feat. And not trying to compare those two or say Melo's a no.1 championship guy but maybe he needs out and....this is EXACTLY the situation Danny has been waiting for to get ANOTHER star. In case anyone hasn't noticed yet, our little MONSTER of a point guard is a bleeping super duper star! He's currently tied for 2nd in the NBA in scoring at 28.7 ppg with everybody's favorite beard Mr. Harden. You 'may' need to read that again. Lol. We have our no.1.

IT has dropped 20 or more in all but ONE game this season, including a current streak of 26 straight. Anyone who mentions trading or not paying Isaiah should just pack up and leave town now. Don't buy tickets, don't call the radio shows, don't even wear green, and definitely don't come to my party. Ha! Whatever you people are smoking, it's not the right stuff.

Back to Melo. To win a title, this team needs another creator. Bottom line. With all due respect to Amir, the four is the only place we could add one without a significant shakeup of the great thing we got going. Even though it would open us up to some potential vulnerability on defense and on the glass, Melo plays his best at the four in my opinion. Lots of chatter about getting a big or a rim protector but I'm sorry, and again, all due respect to Al, but he can't play the four (unless you're talking putting Boogie or Davis next to him - not happening - or a rare 4 with range and D like Ibaka/Love/etc). He's too goofy. We'll be light in the paint but we are already. Just embrace the small ball like GS and play pace and space.

I would never, ever say Melo was as good or better than Pierce cause he's not, and I'm a Celtics diehard and the Truth is the Truth, but here's some fun with numbers for perspective. (forget about media driven perception and personality for a minute and assume a super motivated and dedicated, "bought-in" Melo):

Melo this season at 32 YO: 22.3 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.0 apg
Pierce at 32 YO: 18.3 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.1 apg

Melo Career: 24.8 ppg, 6.6 ppg, 3.1 apg
Pierce Career: 19.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.5 apg

Melo best season: 28.9 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 3.8 apg
Pierce best season: 26.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 4.7 apg

Point being, Carmelo Anthony is really, really, really good at basketball. This would be a dream addition. And I bet he'd love to go after his buddy LeBron with a full team around him.

Here's a deal that works. Add in this year's Brooklyn pick. Done and done, conference finals here we come. The time is now. We could only dream to get someone as good as Melo with that pick. There's no LeBron or KD in this class. The prospects coming out now are kids and that's not what this team needs. We need one more pro. One more All-Star. Get it done Danny!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hpjpmqh

New York gets a good, young, two-way player in Smart I'm sure Phil Jackson would love to have, Amir and Jerebko are expirings and the Knicks aren't going anywhere this year, and Zeller would actually be a nice backup center for their system. Then they can probably have their pick of the litter with the Brooklyn pick (how hilarious would it be to have the (maybe) no.1 pick who "should" be in Brooklyn in New York instead, haha) to pair with Porzingas and off they go. For my money at this point I think Malik Monk is the best prospect out there. We get our no.2 in Melo and a little extra beef and attitude (with skills) in O'Quinn. He's also 26, right in line with our core, and on a very nice contract (3 YR, 4M per). Plus we'd get to keep Rozier and Jaylen....and still have the '18 BRK, all our own picks, Memphis's...on and on...lol. How many kids does it take to get to....

Isaiah         Rozier
Bradley       Gerald
Crowder      Jaylen
Melo           Kelly
Horford       O'Quinn

Hooshmazilli, Championship. I'm out. Thoughts?? Seriously, how do we NOT do this?

Re: Carmelo to Boston (a good fit?)
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2017, 08:59:12 AM »

Offline OhioGreen

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Would really prefer a younger start talent, but because nobody is giving those away, let's stop riding the fence here!  CA is light years better than any other player on our team, save IT, and is a player that always demands a double team and the oppositions best defender.  He'd open up our offense.  He's not ancient, and has a few more good years left in him.
Tired of watching teams like Philly and the Lakers, who were once on hard times like us, rebuilding their teams very nicely with youth, while we keep riding the fence, trying to win and rebuild simultaneously.  While we keep throwing guys out there like TZeller, Amir, GG, and JJ in an attempt to win as many games as possible, teams like the Laker keep playing DAR, BIngram, Nance, Randle and IZubac heavy minutes.  Watched them last nite and these kids are really coming on. Philly with Embid is looking scary and JS hasn't even stepped on the court yet!
So, heck, bring on Carmelo and forget the youth(as we don't really have much anyway) and go for it!