Author Topic: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)  (Read 59249 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2017, 08:28:29 PM »

Offline eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17733
  • Tommy Points: 1128
Sixers were showcasing Noel last night to a prospective buyer.
That's kinda a bad sign for the Sixers though. The Celts aren't showcasing Smart or Jaylen. They are actually good. They are actually good enough to get minutes in a regular rotation and Brad Stevens is good enough to manage minutes. The Sixers have problems.

If you don't think Nerlens is good enough to get minutes in just about every rotation in the NBA you're delusional.

He got lost in the shuffle because he pushed back from the team. And the idea that Stevens knows how to manage minutes compared to Brett Brown is comical.

The situations are completely different, you can't move 5s up a position like you can with guards and wings. Smart can play in 2 and 3 guard line ups, nobody is rolling out a 4 Center line up to get Holmes, Okafor and Noel minutes next to Embiid.

And the idea that Jaylen Brown is good enough to play in a rotation is also somewhat deluded. He's getting minutes because he was a top 3 pick, if the Celtics were balls to the wall trying to win every game I doubt they'd be giving major minutes to a rookie with a -4.2 BPM, and PER of 10.5.
He's not getting consistent minutes on the worst team in the league.

If these guys can only play one position then they automatically become less valuable. If they just can't play together...then the whole league can see it and now they aren't dealing from strength.

The Sixers had one chance to deal from strength. Show three healthy, productive, aggressive players. It's been nothing like that at all, so now they would be dealing from weakness.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2017, 08:30:04 PM »

Offline eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17733
  • Tommy Points: 1128
It also doesn't help the Sixers that Korver just went for table scraps, Milsap is on the market, and Butler is back on the market.

Unless the Sixers demonstrate they have three healthy players motivated to play and that play well they will have to take quarters on the dollar, at best, or they will have to watch one walk for nothing.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2017, 09:54:21 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2016
  • Tommy Points: 512
Sixers are in such great position to have a long-term championship run.  They have 2 likely top 2017 ten picks --extremely valuable as picks or trade chips to add to an embarrassment of riches of young star potential in Embiid and Simmons with young assets like JO, Saric, Stauskas, McConnell, Noel.  If the roster is managed well, they'll own the East in 3 years. I think Danny would give his left and right arms to trade places with Philly right now.    Philly, Minny, and LAL all reaping benefits of playing to lose.

You thought wrong.

Embiid certainly looks like a stud. He and two high draft choices this year are the only guarantee Philly has in the bank right now. Otherwise they're a bad team with a bad record.

You really looked at this through rose-colored glasses. To wit:
- Simmons hasn't played at all in the NBA. He'll probably be a good player but he's not a guarantee.
- Saric looks like he can play but doesn't look like a world beater at this point. A nice piece and a guy I'd like to have on the Cs but not likely an All-Star.
- Okafor's stock has been dropping and his stats are down this year.
- Noel is a RFA this season and isn't likely to stay.
- These guys can't play on the court together anyway.
- When you mention Stauskas as an asset - a guy who has been a failure his entire career - you lose all credibility.
- TJ McConnell? A soon-to-be 25 year old averaging 4 points a game and you consider that an asset? Come on. That's pathetic.

That's not an embarrassment of riches. What's an embarrassment is their record the last 3 years. They're on pace for a whopping 22 wins. Oh my. If you think Danny would swap places you're nuts. Danny isn't a loser. Instead of looking over the fence and thinking the grass is greener, try looking at the NBA standings once in a while.

----

As an aside, every year many fans of really crappy teams think they have the pieces to turn it all around. Most often they don't and there's a reason for that. Potential doesn't always mean production. Players that lose a lot sometimes learn to tolerate it. A lack of veteran presence often means that players don't learn how to do the little things to win. And by the time these teams figure it out they're stripped by Free Agency departures as players leave for greener pastures.

Now it might be in 3 years that Philly is a contender. But it' could be in 3 years that Philly still sucks because players left or didn't pan out. It's a LONG LONG LONG journey from 20 wins to being a contender.

I accept your critique except that you misuse the term rose-colored glasses.  My view was apessimist's view from the Cs perspective.     McConnelll is a marginal asset ike many of the C's throw-ins, but the rest have good value including JO.  Based on how much Cs fans seem to be valuing our 2017 swap, having 2 picks that could end up top 5 in 2017 might be viewed as nearly twice as good.  Cs have no one who has  the superstar potential of JE or Simmons.  Granted, Simmons could be a bust and Embiid could be injured.  But I'd take either one ahead of anyone on the Cs roster.  Yes, I think Danny would rather play poker with the Sixers assets than the Cs assets - despite your compelling argument to the contrary. 

And, of course a losing culture can be hard to break is a good argument i-- f it weren't for the examples of losing teams that became winners.   You recall what happened to the Wickes/Rowe Cs once 23 yo Larry Bird got here. Losing culture dies quickly when dominant players begin to dominate.
No one? Jaylen Brown disagrees.

Dude, Jaylen Brown wasn't even good in college. Stop this nonsense.

Talk about nonsense...first-team All-Pac-12 honors and be the Pac-12 Freshman of the Year is now somehow "not good"? Actually, your comment is beyond nonsense. It's idiocy.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2017, 10:00:39 PM »

Offline cltc5

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Tommy Points: 253
We shoulda tanked but ya know finishing with a second round playoff loss for the next 5-10 years is cool too ::)

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2017, 10:03:51 PM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4701
  • Tommy Points: 363
We shoulda tanked but ya know finishing with a second round playoff loss for the next 5-10 years while getting top 5 lottery picks is cool too ::)

You forgot the bolded part.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2017, 11:35:24 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

  • NCE
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 995
  • Tommy Points: 57
Sixers were showcasing Noel last night to a prospective buyer.
That's kinda a bad sign for the Sixers though. The Celts aren't showcasing Smart or Jaylen. They are actually good. They are actually good enough to get minutes in a regular rotation and Brad Stevens is good enough to manage minutes. The Sixers have problems.


The situations are completely different, you can't move 5s up a position like you can with guards and wings. Smart can play in 2 and 3 guard line ups, nobody is rolling out a 4 Center line up to get Holmes, Okafor and Noel minutes next to Embiid.


In other words, the Sixers did a poor job in drafting.

No.

Taking Okafor was disastrously stupid, but the other 3 were good picks.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2017, 11:37:30 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

  • NCE
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 995
  • Tommy Points: 57
Sixers are in such great position to have a long-term championship run.  They have 2 likely top 2017 ten picks --extremely valuable as picks or trade chips to add to an embarrassment of riches of young star potential in Embiid and Simmons with young assets like JO, Saric, Stauskas, McConnell, Noel.  If the roster is managed well, they'll own the East in 3 years. I think Danny would give his left and right arms to trade places with Philly right now.    Philly, Minny, and LAL all reaping benefits of playing to lose.

You thought wrong.

Embiid certainly looks like a stud. He and two high draft choices this year are the only guarantee Philly has in the bank right now. Otherwise they're a bad team with a bad record.

You really looked at this through rose-colored glasses. To wit:
- Simmons hasn't played at all in the NBA. He'll probably be a good player but he's not a guarantee.
- Saric looks like he can play but doesn't look like a world beater at this point. A nice piece and a guy I'd like to have on the Cs but not likely an All-Star.
- Okafor's stock has been dropping and his stats are down this year.
- Noel is a RFA this season and isn't likely to stay.
- These guys can't play on the court together anyway.
- When you mention Stauskas as an asset - a guy who has been a failure his entire career - you lose all credibility.
- TJ McConnell? A soon-to-be 25 year old averaging 4 points a game and you consider that an asset? Come on. That's pathetic.

That's not an embarrassment of riches. What's an embarrassment is their record the last 3 years. They're on pace for a whopping 22 wins. Oh my. If you think Danny would swap places you're nuts. Danny isn't a loser. Instead of looking over the fence and thinking the grass is greener, try looking at the NBA standings once in a while.

----

As an aside, every year many fans of really crappy teams think they have the pieces to turn it all around. Most often they don't and there's a reason for that. Potential doesn't always mean production. Players that lose a lot sometimes learn to tolerate it. A lack of veteran presence often means that players don't learn how to do the little things to win. And by the time these teams figure it out they're stripped by Free Agency departures as players leave for greener pastures.

Now it might be in 3 years that Philly is a contender. But it' could be in 3 years that Philly still sucks because players left or didn't pan out. It's a LONG LONG LONG journey from 20 wins to being a contender.

I accept your critique except that you misuse the term rose-colored glasses.  My view was apessimist's view from the Cs perspective.     McConnelll is a marginal asset ike many of the C's throw-ins, but the rest have good value including JO.  Based on how much Cs fans seem to be valuing our 2017 swap, having 2 picks that could end up top 5 in 2017 might be viewed as nearly twice as good.  Cs have no one who has  the superstar potential of JE or Simmons.  Granted, Simmons could be a bust and Embiid could be injured.  But I'd take either one ahead of anyone on the Cs roster.  Yes, I think Danny would rather play poker with the Sixers assets than the Cs assets - despite your compelling argument to the contrary. 

And, of course a losing culture can be hard to break is a good argument i-- f it weren't for the examples of losing teams that became winners.   You recall what happened to the Wickes/Rowe Cs once 23 yo Larry Bird got here. Losing culture dies quickly when dominant players begin to dominate.
No one? Jaylen Brown disagrees.

Dude, Jaylen Brown wasn't even good in college. Stop this nonsense.

Talk about nonsense...first-team All-Pac-12 honors and be the Pac-12 Freshman of the Year is now somehow "not good"? Actually, your comment is beyond nonsense. It's idiocy.

Bad defensive player, inefficient high volume scorer, bad shooter/passer, and the team massively under achieved.

He was an empty calories gunner.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2017, 11:39:13 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

  • NCE
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 995
  • Tommy Points: 57
It also doesn't help the Sixers that Korver just went for table scraps, Milsap is on the market, and Butler is back on the market.

Unless the Sixers demonstrate they have three healthy players motivated to play and that play well they will have to take quarters on the dollar, at best, or they will have to watch one walk for nothing.

What exactly is quarters on the dollar for Okafor? The dude is a penny.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2017, 11:42:10 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

  • NCE
  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 995
  • Tommy Points: 57
Sixers were showcasing Noel last night to a prospective buyer.
That's kinda a bad sign for the Sixers though. The Celts aren't showcasing Smart or Jaylen. They are actually good. They are actually good enough to get minutes in a regular rotation and Brad Stevens is good enough to manage minutes. The Sixers have problems.

If you don't think Nerlens is good enough to get minutes in just about every rotation in the NBA you're delusional.

He got lost in the shuffle because he pushed back from the team. And the idea that Stevens knows how to manage minutes compared to Brett Brown is comical.

The situations are completely different, you can't move 5s up a position like you can with guards and wings. Smart can play in 2 and 3 guard line ups, nobody is rolling out a 4 Center line up to get Holmes, Okafor and Noel minutes next to Embiid.

And the idea that Jaylen Brown is good enough to play in a rotation is also somewhat deluded. He's getting minutes because he was a top 3 pick, if the Celtics were balls to the wall trying to win every game I doubt they'd be giving major minutes to a rookie with a -4.2 BPM, and PER of 10.5.
He's not getting consistent minutes on the worst team in the league.

If these guys can only play one position then they automatically become less valuable. If they just can't play together...then the whole league can see it and now they aren't dealing from strength.

The Sixers had one chance to deal from strength. Show three healthy, productive, aggressive players. It's been nothing like that at all, so now they would be dealing from weakness.

Do you think the revelation that Centers has lost value is new?

Noel isn't getting minutes because he has a top 10 center in front of him and the entire Colangelo family has small penises.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2017, 11:43:55 PM »

Offline eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17733
  • Tommy Points: 1128
It also doesn't help the Sixers that Korver just went for table scraps, Milsap is on the market, and Butler is back on the market.

Unless the Sixers demonstrate they have three healthy players motivated to play and that play well they will have to take quarters on the dollar, at best, or they will have to watch one walk for nothing.

What exactly is quarters on the dollar for Okafor? The dude is a penny.
Even if that were true at one point they could have traded him for more than a penny. That was their sell high moment. They missed it

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2017, 11:56:09 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1780
"a losing culture can be hard to break is a good argument if it weren't for examples of losing teams that became winners.   You recall what happened to the Wickes/Rowe Cs once 23 yo Larry Bird got here. Losing culture dies quickly when dominant players begin to dominate"

You just ruined your own argument. One big reason that the 1980 Celtics turned things around was that Wicks and Rowe and their attitudes were gone. Fitch and Larry took care of those problems in training camp.
its actually very true. Losing cultures disappear as soon as the stars hit their stride.  Happened with the cavs. Happened with Oklahoma. Happened with the clippers.  Etc.

Philly is set up majestically heading forward.  Last I checked, since both Boston and philly started tanking, those two teams have the same amount of playoff series wins.  That should change this season I assume, but I fully expect barring injury Philly to be in the playoffs and making noise within the next few years.   Their culture has already changed since the arrival of Embiid. That team and its fanbase is lit.  Only a matter of time before the minutes restrictions lift, their other franchise player returns and they figure out how to get some wins consistently.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2017, 01:32:31 PM »

Offline eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17733
  • Tommy Points: 1128
I kinda think Philly got awkwardly lucky that Ben Simmons got hurt. Three straight years of top draft picks getting hurt. It's like they've invented a new kind of tanking....the super tank.

But I'm not sure getting all your guys hurt and losing for well over half a decade is such a great idea.

The Sixers are in the third quarter as I type this and Jahil hasn't gotten into the game.

At some point you start to think "They must hate that guy." When that happens the price drops.

There are basically 4 guys on the market right now.
Butler
Jahil
Mislay
D Howard

They've missed their sell high moment for the time being.  If they want a lot I need to see the player stay healthy for 4 straight months and play well the whole time.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2017, 01:44:21 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2829
  • Tommy Points: 177
I kinda think Philly got awkwardly lucky that Ben Simmons got hurt. Three straight years of top draft picks getting hurt. It's like they've invented a new kind of tanking....the super tank.

But I'm not sure getting all your guys hurt and losing for well over half a decade is such a great idea.

The Sixers are in the third quarter as I type this and Jahil hasn't gotten into the game.

At some point you start to think "They must hate that guy." When that happens the price drops.

There are basically 4 guys on the market right now.
Butler
Jahil
Mislay
D Howard

They've missed their sell high moment for the time being.  If they want a lot I need to see the player stay healthy for 4 straight months and play well the whole time.

I mean, they benched Noel for a while to see how the Okafor/Embiid pairing worked, now they're benching Okafor to see how the Noel/Embiid pairing works. They're definitely one (or both) of the two, they just haven't settled on whom yet.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2017, 01:54:48 PM »

Offline footey

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6660
  • Tommy Points: 780
"a losing culture can be hard to break is a good argument if it weren't for examples of losing teams that became winners.   You recall what happened to the Wickes/Rowe Cs once 23 yo Larry Bird got here. Losing culture dies quickly when dominant players begin to dominate"

You just ruined your own argument. One big reason that the 1980 Celtics turned things around was that Wicks and Rowe and their attitudes were gone. Fitch and Larry took care of those problems in training camp.
its actually very true. Losing cultures disappear as soon as the stars hit their stride.  Happened with the cavs. Happened with Oklahoma. Happened with the clippers.  Etc.

Philly is set up majestically heading forward.  Last I checked, since both Boston and philly started tanking, those two teams have the same amount of playoff series wins.  That should change this season I assume, but I fully expect barring injury Philly to be in the playoffs and making noise within the next few years.   Their culture has already changed since the arrival of Embiid. That team and its fanbase is lit.  Only a matter of time before the minutes restrictions lift, their other franchise player returns and they figure out how to get some wins consistently.

To equate Philly tanking with our tanking is nonsense and done to inflame Celtic fans. Nice.

You are the worst prognosticator on this blog, so your predictions as to Philly's future carry as much weight as your predictions about the Nets: Zilch.

Re: The Sixers missed their sell high moment
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2017, 01:57:47 PM »

Offline footey

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6660
  • Tommy Points: 780
The only great pick made by Philly was Embiid, who fell into their lap after breaking his leg. Okafor was a terrible pick.