Author Topic: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?  (Read 6915 times)

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Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2017, 12:10:14 AM »

Offline greece66

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He is locked up at a reasonable price, could we trade for him and still have max space next year?

Bos send: Crowder,Amir,Zellar, KO, bos 18
Atl sends : Howard


IT.        Rozier
AB        Smart
Hayward.   Brown
Horford      Nets 17
Howard.    Zicic

First, I am not sure about pairing Horford with Howard.

Second, we are giving up way too much: three bigs (Zeller, Amir, Kelly), a great contract (Crowder), and a lottery (assuming the trade goes through) pick.

PS According to the OP, by trading for Howard, we magically get Hayward too. OK...

PPS I just saw saltlover's posts, which are always interesting to read. He is right that Howard's numbers have improved this season. But so has Houston after he left...

Haha, thanks.  I just think he was a terrible fit in Houston.  Rather than his game dramatically declining, as was the popular narrative, he's really been the same player.  I don't really attribute Atlanta's non-elite play to him either.  They're on a 46-win pace, having replaced Horford with Dwight, Teague with nobody, and good Kent Bazemore with bad Kent Bazemore.

A lot of people didn't like that Dwight forced his way out of Orlando, and then didn't stick with the Lakers once he realized what a jerk Kobe Bryant was. But if we want this team to not get bullied by Tristan Thompson and Jonas Valuncianas, Dwight is the guy who can solve that, not Paul Milsap, and certainly not Jimmy Butler.  Our number one weakness is defensive rebounding -- Howard is 6th in the league in DREB%.  He's first in OREB%.  He's sixth in Defensive rating. He'll sure up the defense because our guards can go back to focusing on making guys miss shots, and not focus on getting the rebound as well.  He's limited offensively, but if the defense doesn't successfully deny him the ball near the basket, its two points.

He's signed for two more years at below max numbers, which will help the team keep its guards together.  He's played in at least 70 games 3 of the last 4 years, and is on pace to do so again.  He generally averages 30 minutes a game.  Injuries aren't a major concern.

I wouldn't go overboard for trading for him (no Brooklyn pick this year or maybe next year) but he fills our team needs better than Milsap, and is not an expiring like Milsap.  He can play next to Horford in a two big lineup, or surrounded by four shooters.  I'm not sure he'd be in my close-out-the-game lineup due to the tendency for teams to go small at the end, but that's okay.

If Horford or IT said "No, he's a jerk, don't bring him here", then fine, I wouldn't be down with that.  But as I've never heard that, I'm in.  Sure I'd prefer Cousins, but I won't fall for being the enemy of the perfect.

Thanks for the detailed post, that makes sense. I had not realized his ratings are so good.


Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2017, 12:28:06 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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He is locked up at a reasonable price, could we trade for him and still have max space next year?

Bos send: Crowder,Amir,Zellar, KO, bos 18
Atl sends : Howard


IT.        Rozier
AB        Smart
Hayward.   Brown
Horford      Nets 17
Howard.    Zicic

First, I am not sure about pairing Horford with Howard.

Second, we are giving up way too much: three bigs (Zeller, Amir, Kelly), a great contract (Crowder), and a lottery (assuming the trade goes through) pick.

PS According to the OP, by trading for Howard, we magically get Hayward too. OK...

PPS I just saw saltlover's posts, which are always interesting to read. He is right that Howard's numbers have improved this season. But so has Houston after he left...

Haha, thanks.  I just think he was a terrible fit in Houston.  Rather than his game dramatically declining, as was the popular narrative, he's really been the same player.  I don't really attribute Atlanta's non-elite play to him either.  They're on a 46-win pace, having replaced Horford with Dwight, Teague with nobody, and good Kent Bazemore with bad Kent Bazemore.

A lot of people didn't like that Dwight forced his way out of Orlando, and then didn't stick with the Lakers once he realized what a jerk Kobe Bryant was. But if we want this team to not get bullied by Tristan Thompson and Jonas Valuncianas, Dwight is the guy who can solve that, not Paul Milsap, and certainly not Jimmy Butler.  Our number one weakness is defensive rebounding -- Howard is 6th in the league in DREB%.  He's first in OREB%.  He's sixth in Defensive rating. He'll sure up the defense because our guards can go back to focusing on making guys miss shots, and not focus on getting the rebound as well.  He's limited offensively, but if the defense doesn't successfully deny him the ball near the basket, its two points.

He's signed for two more years at below max numbers, which will help the team keep its guards together.  He's played in at least 70 games 3 of the last 4 years, and is on pace to do so again.  He generally averages 30 minutes a game.  Injuries aren't a major concern.

I wouldn't go overboard for trading for him (no Brooklyn pick this year or maybe next year) but he fills our team needs better than Milsap, and is not an expiring like Milsap.  He can play next to Horford in a two big lineup, or surrounded by four shooters.  I'm not sure he'd be in my close-out-the-game lineup due to the tendency for teams to go small at the end, but that's okay.

If Horford or IT said "No, he's a jerk, don't bring him here", then fine, I wouldn't be down with that.  But as I've never heard that, I'm in.  Sure I'd prefer Cousins, but I won't fall for being the enemy of the perfect.

TP. If you can get him without giving up Brown or the Nets picks, then I think it's a no-brainer. He solves the vast majority of our problems, though a secondary scorer would still be helpful.

I'd ultimately probably end up giving up the 2018 Brooklyn pick for him, though perhaps along with that we could do a pick swap with Atlanta or something, who should be lottery bound.

But to get him and keep both Brown and the 2017 (if not also the 2018) Brooklyn pick would be incredible. You'd still have so much versatility to bring in a Butler or George type via trade, and if you don't do that then you just keep on developing Brown and the Brooklyn picks, who should be ready for full-time positions by the time Dwight and Al are off contract.

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2017, 09:05:26 AM »

Offline Who

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What would the cost be?

If Ainge could get Dwight without giving up Jaylen or the Nets picks - what package could Ainge possibly put together that is valuable enough to get Dwight?

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2017, 09:07:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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What would the cost be?

If Ainge could get Dwight without giving up Jaylen or the Nets picks - what package could Ainge possibly put together that is valuable enough to get Dwight?
KO, Rozier, multiple 1st's (2018 BOS, MEM, LAC, 2020 BOS are all available to trade).  That might be enough depending on how much interest there actually is in Dwight around the league
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Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2017, 09:24:33 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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He is locked up at a reasonable price, could we trade for him and still have max space next year?

Bos send: Crowder,Amir,Zellar, KO, bos 18
Atl sends : Howard


IT.        Rozier
AB        Smart
Hayward.   Brown
Horford      Nets 17
Howard.    Zicic

First, I am not sure about pairing Horford with Howard.

Second, we are giving up way too much: three bigs (Zeller, Amir, Kelly), a great contract (Crowder), and a lottery (assuming the trade goes through) pick.

PS According to the OP, by trading for Howard, we magically get Hayward too. OK...

PPS I just saw saltlover's posts, which are always interesting to read. He is right that Howard's numbers have improved this season. But so has Houston after he left...

Haha, thanks.  I just think he was a terrible fit in Houston.  Rather than his game dramatically declining, as was the popular narrative, he's really been the same player.  I don't really attribute Atlanta's non-elite play to him either.  They're on a 46-win pace, having replaced Horford with Dwight, Teague with nobody, and good Kent Bazemore with bad Kent Bazemore.

A lot of people didn't like that Dwight forced his way out of Orlando, and then didn't stick with the Lakers once he realized what a jerk Kobe Bryant was. But if we want this team to not get bullied by Tristan Thompson and Jonas Valuncianas, Dwight is the guy who can solve that, not Paul Milsap, and certainly not Jimmy Butler.  Our number one weakness is defensive rebounding -- Howard is 6th in the league in DREB%.  He's first in OREB%.  He's sixth in Defensive rating. He'll sure up the defense because our guards can go back to focusing on making guys miss shots, and not focus on getting the rebound as well.  He's limited offensively, but if the defense doesn't successfully deny him the ball near the basket, its two points.

He's signed for two more years at below max numbers, which will help the team keep its guards together.  He's played in at least 70 games 3 of the last 4 years, and is on pace to do so again.  He generally averages 30 minutes a game.  Injuries aren't a major concern.

I wouldn't go overboard for trading for him (no Brooklyn pick this year or maybe next year) but he fills our team needs better than Milsap, and is not an expiring like Milsap.  He can play next to Horford in a two big lineup, or surrounded by four shooters.  I'm not sure he'd be in my close-out-the-game lineup due to the tendency for teams to go small at the end, but that's okay.

If Horford or IT said "No, he's a jerk, don't bring him here", then fine, I wouldn't be down with that.  But as I've never heard that, I'm in.  Sure I'd prefer Cousins, but I won't fall for being the enemy of the perfect.

TP. If you can get him without giving up Brown or the Nets picks, then I think it's a no-brainer. He solves the vast majority of our problems, though a secondary scorer would still be helpful.

I'd ultimately probably end up giving up the 2018 Brooklyn pick for him, though perhaps along with that we could do a pick swap with Atlanta or something, who should be lottery bound.

But to get him and keep both Brown and the 2017 (if not also the 2018) Brooklyn pick would be incredible. You'd still have so much versatility to bring in a Butler or George type via trade, and if you don't do that then you just keep on developing Brown and the Brooklyn picks, who should be ready for full-time positions by the time Dwight and Al are off contract.

[Dang] it, I think you and saltlover just sold me on this.  If we got him without giving up any of the Nets picks or Brown then we'd be in a position to truly compete if we either drafted a real stud or traded our assets for another scorer.  And if we decided to just build around our draft picks, it wouldn't really hurt us because he expires before Horford.

I don;t really think they'll trade him this year unless he requests it (which I think would require a Millsap trade first), but I'd be thrilled if Danny did

Also, I just looked at his rebound %s and his offensive rebound % (17.7%) is almost as good as our best defensive % (18.8% by Kelly Olynyk, somehow), and his total % (24.5%) is almost twice as good as our best by a rotation player (13.4% by Tyler Zeller), and more than twice any other rotation player on the team (Amir is 2nd at 12.1%).  Holy crap
I'm bitter.

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2017, 09:35:15 AM »

Offline saltlover

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What would the cost be?

If Ainge could get Dwight without giving up Jaylen or the Nets picks - what package could Ainge possibly put together that is valuable enough to get Dwight?

My offer would be Amir, Jerebko, Rozier, Yabusele, 2018 Boston, 2019 Memphis, 2019 Clippers.  That's essentially four 1sts, a prospect PG (he'd be an immediate upgrade to their current backup PG), and two expiring vets who could either be traded again or kept to help compete on a team that is still 4th in the conference.  It's an overpay that Boston could afford, but still keeps Brown and the Brooklyn picks.

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2017, 03:56:33 PM »

Offline seancally

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What would the cost be?

If Ainge could get Dwight without giving up Jaylen or the Nets picks - what package could Ainge possibly put together that is valuable enough to get Dwight?

My offer would be Amir, Jerebko, Rozier, Yabusele, 2018 Boston, 2019 Memphis, 2019 Clippers.  That's essentially four 1sts, a prospect PG (he'd be an immediate upgrade to their current backup PG), and two expiring vets who could either be traded again or kept to help compete on a team that is still 4th in the conference.  It's an overpay that Boston could afford, but still keeps Brown and the Brooklyn picks.

I would happily make that deal. As others have noted, we need someone with the girth and experience to go to war in the paint, particularly on defense and when the shot goes up. I like that Horford would be able to slide to the 4 or small-ball 5 - actually, both would do well in a small-ball lineup and we would finally be able to put out a decently big lineup when necessary.

I don't love Dwight Howard but I do think he's gotten a raw deal in terms of his reputation. Maybe he isn't a killer, but he's an effective player who does a few things at an elite level. At this point in his career, and on the contract that he's on, the downside risk is minimal. It's only a few years so he doesn't strap us into some long-term money and (at least in this type of scenario) we don't give up any of our prized assets.

Now that I think about it, I think he moves the needle for us even more than someone like Millsap. I think Millsap is a better player, but he doesn't solve our rim protection and rebounding issue. Plus, a Dwight/IT pick-n-roll would be something to see.
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Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2017, 04:03:10 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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He is locked up at a reasonable price, could we trade for him and still have max space next year?

Bos send: Crowder,Amir,Zellar, KO, bos 18
Atl sends : Howard


IT.        Rozier
AB        Smart
Hayward.   Brown
Horford      Nets 17
Howard.    Zicic

First, I am not sure about pairing Horford with Howard.

Second, we are giving up way too much: three bigs (Zeller, Amir, Kelly), a great contract (Crowder), and a lottery (assuming the trade goes through) pick.

PS According to the OP, by trading for Howard, we magically get Hayward too. OK...

PPS I just saw saltlover's posts, which are always interesting to read. He is right that Howard's numbers have improved this season. But so has Houston after he left...

Haha, thanks.  I just think he was a terrible fit in Houston.  Rather than his game dramatically declining, as was the popular narrative, he's really been the same player.  I don't really attribute Atlanta's non-elite play to him either.  They're on a 46-win pace, having replaced Horford with Dwight, Teague with nobody, and good Kent Bazemore with bad Kent Bazemore.

A lot of people didn't like that Dwight forced his way out of Orlando, and then didn't stick with the Lakers once he realized what a jerk Kobe Bryant was. But if we want this team to not get bullied by Tristan Thompson and Jonas Valuncianas, Dwight is the guy who can solve that, not Paul Milsap, and certainly not Jimmy Butler.  Our number one weakness is defensive rebounding -- Howard is 6th in the league in DREB%.  He's first in OREB%.  He's sixth in Defensive rating. He'll sure up the defense because our guards can go back to focusing on making guys miss shots, and not focus on getting the rebound as well.  He's limited offensively, but if the defense doesn't successfully deny him the ball near the basket, its two points.

He's signed for two more years at below max numbers, which will help the team keep its guards together.  He's played in at least 70 games 3 of the last 4 years, and is on pace to do so again.  He generally averages 30 minutes a game.  Injuries aren't a major concern.

I wouldn't go overboard for trading for him (no Brooklyn pick this year or maybe next year) but he fills our team needs better than Milsap, and is not an expiring like Milsap.  He can play next to Horford in a two big lineup, or surrounded by four shooters.  I'm not sure he'd be in my close-out-the-game lineup due to the tendency for teams to go small at the end, but that's okay.

If Horford or IT said "No, he's a jerk, don't bring him here", then fine, I wouldn't be down with that.  But as I've never heard that, I'm in.  Sure I'd prefer Cousins, but I won't fall for being the enemy of the perfect.

TP. If you can get him without giving up Brown or the Nets picks, then I think it's a no-brainer. He solves the vast majority of our problems, though a secondary scorer would still be helpful.

I'd ultimately probably end up giving up the 2018 Brooklyn pick for him, though perhaps along with that we could do a pick swap with Atlanta or something, who should be lottery bound.

But to get him and keep both Brown and the 2017 (if not also the 2018) Brooklyn pick would be incredible. You'd still have so much versatility to bring in a Butler or George type via trade, and if you don't do that then you just keep on developing Brown and the Brooklyn picks, who should be ready for full-time positions by the time Dwight and Al are off contract.

Stopped reading right there.
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Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2017, 04:16:20 PM »

Offline heyvik

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What would the cost be?

If Ainge could get Dwight without giving up Jaylen or the Nets picks - what package could Ainge possibly put together that is valuable enough to get Dwight?

My offer would be Amir, Jerebko, Rozier, Yabusele, 2018 Boston, 2019 Memphis, 2019 Clippers.  That's essentially four 1sts, a prospect PG (he'd be an immediate upgrade to their current backup PG), and two expiring vets who could either be traded again or kept to help compete on a team that is still 4th in the conference.  It's an overpay that Boston could afford, but still keeps Brown and the Brooklyn picks.

I would happily make that deal. As others have noted, we need someone with the girth and experience to go to war in the paint, particularly on defense and when the shot goes up. I like that Horford would be able to slide to the 4 or small-ball 5 - actually, both would do well in a small-ball lineup and we would finally be able to put out a decently big lineup when necessary.

I don't love Dwight Howard but I do think he's gotten a raw deal in terms of his reputation. Maybe he isn't a killer, but he's an effective player who does a few things at an elite level. At this point in his career, and on the contract that he's on, the downside risk is minimal. It's only a few years so he doesn't strap us into some long-term money and (at least in this type of scenario) we don't give up any of our prized assets.

Now that I think about it, I think he moves the needle for us even more than someone like Millsap. I think Millsap is a better player, but he doesn't solve our rim protection and rebounding issue. Plus, a Dwight/IT pick-n-roll would be something to see.

TBH, I didn't like D12 BUT you have convinced me...I think Millsap is a better overall player but D12 would help us so many other areas. You could send the 2018 Nets pick, maybe even the Grizz pick Amir (good bc he's expiring), JJ (expiring) as well as youth. I think they may want Brown OVER Rozier because they already have their PG in Schoeder. I'm not sure I'd want to give up Brown though. Now saying that - they may may want a starting SF (minimizing the loss of Korver)...so do you add Crowder?

If we do include Crowder, and no Nets pick, could we convince Hayward to sign here in the summer?

Line up of :IT, Bradley, Hayward, Horford, D12 pretty good defensively and offensively.

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2017, 05:39:09 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How about this crazy 3 way trade

Boston - Howard, Moore, Cunningham, Muscala
Atlanta - Galloway, Smart, Amir, Jerekbo, Zeller, NO 1st, PHI 2nd (from NO), BOS 18 1st, MEM 1st (from BOS)
New Orleans - Millsap

So Boston post-trade is (with 1 open roster spot)

PG - Thomas, Rozier, Jackson
SG - Bradley, Moore, Green
SF - Crowder, Brown, Young
PF - Horford, Olynyk, Cunningham, Mickey
C - Howard, Muscala
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2017, 07:34:41 PM »

Offline Hank Finkel

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This team needs rebounding badly.  If we only give up a late first rounder and Rozier (Atlanta needs a point guard) with say a Zeller or Amir and throw in one of our other bench fodder (Young, Mickey or Youbo) then its a good deal for Boston and Atlanta has some young talent and a pick that might develop.  I wouldn't give up any of our starter or elite bench guys for Howard.   

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2017, 07:52:53 PM »

Offline 2short

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Just my two points but i never want dwight howard on our team.  We can get rebounding somewhere else and 90% sure cheaper.  On a short list of players I never want to be in green

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2017, 03:10:22 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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He is locked up at a reasonable price, could we trade for him and still have max space next year?

Bos send: Crowder,Amir,Zellar, KO, bos 18
Atl sends : Howard


IT.        Rozier
AB        Smart
Hayward.   Brown
Horford      Nets 17
Howard.    Zicic
He is worth less than that according to GM's. He could have Ben had for 10 mil one year. Deal if the idiots in Atlanta did not cave.
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Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2017, 03:15:37 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I have no idea why people continue to believe Dwight Howard is a good idea. He's a team cancer and a selfish player. He's basically everything the C's look to avoid.

Re: Now that Korver is traded is Dwight available?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2017, 11:33:27 PM »

Offline CsBanner18

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No thanks