I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?
All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.
His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age
Per 36 numbers at age 22
Pts Reb Ast Stls Blcks To PF FG%
Cousins 20.1 11.7 3.1 1.7 0.9 3.5 4.2 .465
Nurkic 17.1 12.2 2.8 1.2 1.7 4.0 4.0 .537
You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg
It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes
Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night. Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?
No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game. Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge. Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous
I actually think in many cases you'd be correct. Comparing the per 36 minute stats of a backup to a starter is not really valuable since they're playing against different levels competition, but in this case we're comparing per 36 minute stats of a starting center to another starting center (Nurkic was the starter for Denver until last week). The biggest difference between the two players is the situation.
Nurkic is playing for a team that A. Wants to make the playoffs B. Has another dynamic center that is a much better fit for how they want to play and C. Has changed its direction like 12 times in the last four years.
Cousins at 22 played for a team that was TRYING to lose games and had a mandate to play and develop him. Ignoring the number of minutes and all the stats he put up in garbage time of their 54 losses that season seems more disingenuous to me than comparing one young starter's per minute averages to another's at the same age.
It's not as if Denver hasn't had it's share of garbage minutes (they've had 8 games that were decided by 15 points or more so far, as compared to 10 by the (13-21) Kings at this point in 2013), and Cousins was earning his minutes (he was tied with Tyreke Evans for the second most win shares on the team behind our friend Isaiah Thomas). Yes, the Kings were awful that year, but it's not like this year's Nuggets are that much better (they're just a half game ahead of where the Kings were at this point in 2013), and Cousins played because he helped the team, not just because he was young.
But, again, I'm not saying that you can;t compare him to Cousins because Cousins played more minutes, I'm saying that comparing players based on per36 numbers is misleading when you leave out their minutes played. I like Nurkic, but there's no way he'd keep up that efficiency in an extra 10 minutes a game (likewise, I'd expect Cousins' efficiency to have been higher if he had played 10 fewer minutes per game). His per36 stats are nice, but they're also comparable to lesser guys like JJ Hickson, Sean May, John Henson, Jared Sullinger, Kenneth Faried, Greg Monroe, and Enes Kanter at the same age
Are they now? Please feel free to post their per 36 numbers so we can compare them.
This is a full list of players who at 22 had at least 16 pts and 10 rbds per36 and their per36 stats
That's great, but we also looked at assists, turnovers, blocks, steals, personal fouls, and field goal percentages when making our original comparison.
Please go ahead and post those for comparison's sake...
I can't recall who, but someone on this thread felt cherry picking stats was disingenuous, I just don't want your integrity to come under fire.
*Imagine I inserted an equally condescending counter here (pretend it was a good one)*
Assists, Blocks, TOVs, Steals, PFs, and FG% are all there if you follow the link. I don't have time to copy them all over, but I'll give a quick overview:
Out of 19 players (~half of which are stars, and the other half rotation players to decent starters to out of the league) Nurkic is 6th in assists, 5th in blocks, 19th in TOVs (4.0/36min vs 3.5/36min for 18th), 5th for steals, 16th for fouls, 6th for FG%, 6th for TRB, 15th for PTS, 18th for MPG (ahead of only 2012-13 John Henson), and 18th for WS/48 (ahead of only 2010-11 JJ Hickson)
So, he's ahead of the pack in some things, and behind in others, just like every player in any wide range of stats ever (for reference, Cousins is 5th, 13th, 18th, 1st, 18th, 17th, 10th, 5th, 9th, and 16th, and old friend Jared Sullinger is 4th, 12th, 1st, 8th, 10th, 19th, 17th, 10th, 13th, and 13th, both of which are mixes of being good at some things, bad at others, and middle of the pack on others)
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