Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline

[saltlover]

Do people realize Bogut has health concerns? He rarely ever gets through the playoffs. I'm shocked to see the poll results.

It's about cost-benefit.  Do you think any of the names on the list will be the last piece to winning a title?  I don't.  Accordingly I'll go with the cheapest one, so that we have a slightly better team.  I'm only counting on Bogut for 15 minutes a night, personally.  If he helps against some matchups where we'd get killed on the boards, and keeps Amir's minutes down so that he's fresher for the playoffs, that's good enough for me.

Why not trade for Noel? What are you saving the cap space for? Noel is better for now and long term.

Trading for Bogut doesn't stop us from pursuing Noel in the offseason. I would send Zeller and Young for Bogut in a heartbeat.

Yeah same, not sure that would get it done though. A team like Cavs could offer them a first round pick.

I mean, we could too. I just want to dump Young so we can call up Nader 

Leave Nader in Maine.  If you sign him now, it will only be a season and a half until he reaches free agency.  If you sign him in the summer, he can be under contract for four years.  Stay patient.

[IDreamCeltics]

I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous

I actually think in many cases you'd be correct.  Comparing the per 36 minute stats of a backup to a starter is not really valuable since they're playing against different levels competition, but in this case we're comparing per 36 minute stats of a starting center to another starting center (Nurkic was the starter for Denver until last week).  The biggest difference between the two players is the situation.

Nurkic is playing for a team that A.  Wants to make the playoffs B.  Has another dynamic center that is a much better fit for how they want to play and C. Has changed its direction like 12 times in the last four years.
   
Cousins at 22 played for a team that was TRYING to lose games and had a mandate to play and develop him.  Ignoring the number of minutes and all the stats he put up in garbage time of their 54 losses that season seems more disingenuous to me than comparing one young starter's per minute averages to another's at the same age.   

   
   

[Cman]

It depends on the price to acquire each big.

I voted Bogut, but I need to see him healthy before making a trade. I watched him play last week and he was laboring to get up and down the court.

Noel wouldn't be a bad move if the price is low enough, but I'm not sure I want to pay him next year so I wouldn't want to trade a lot.

Asik's contract is a non starter.

I think Lopez is good, but I think we can do better with our cap space.

Nurkic would be an amazing trade, but I think he is probably much more expensive than we would be willing to stomach. If the price to acquire was equal for all the options I would pick Nurkic.

Agreed on the price angle. But of course they won't all be equal. Nurkic would be interesting, I just don't see why Denver feels a need to do a trade, unless the offer blows them away.

[Tr1boy]

Dont want any. Only one that fits not on the list above is Ibaka

Bogut cant shoot. Defend multiple positions

[Rosco917]

Who you choose is dependent on what your goals are.

Do you want a one year "patch", then Bogut is the best choice. He's played before in a pace and space offense, he doesn't demand heavy minutes, he rebounds, defends, and passes well. He'll be excepting of the celtics system of going small at certain times. If he's healthy, he'd be a decent fit.

Are you looking to obtain a center for the future, then Noel is cheap for this year, and you get to see how he fits in the system for the future, as to should you make him an offer for next year. Young aggressive defender, runs the floor well, defends, and rebounds well. He can defend multiple positions.

Asik is expensive and a poor fit.

Lopez is too expensive, but he fits the system. Not a great rebounder, but he stretches the floor well. But he would limit the signing of a future star because of his contract.

Nurkic is interesting... young, strong, and talented but does he fit the system? Right now he has a good contract, and is prime to keep and develop. If he could be gotten reasonably...       

[Rosco917]

Dont want any. Only one that fits not on the list above is Ibaka

Bogut cant shoot. Defend multiple positions

I like Ibaka, but how old is he? These situations where players come from Countries that don't have a system of maintaining birth certificates scares me away.

[Phantom255x]

I think the Nets would want back a 2018 Nets Pick at least for Brook Lopez lol 

Of the options, I would take Ibaka or Bogut, because neither require long term commitment (become FA's after the season ends), and if worst case scenario, then we could just re-sign either to a deal if the team whiffs in the trade market or FA.

[BitterJim]

I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous

I actually think in many cases you'd be correct.  Comparing the per 36 minute stats of a backup to a starter is not really valuable since they're playing against different levels competition, but in this case we're comparing per 36 minute stats of a starting center to another starting center (Nurkic was the starter for Denver until last week).  The biggest difference between the two players is the situation.

Nurkic is playing for a team that A.  Wants to make the playoffs B.  Has another dynamic center that is a much better fit for how they want to play and C. Has changed its direction like 12 times in the last four years.
   
Cousins at 22 played for a team that was TRYING to lose games and had a mandate to play and develop him.  Ignoring the number of minutes and all the stats he put up in garbage time of their 54 losses that season seems more disingenuous to me than comparing one young starter's per minute averages to another's at the same age.   

It's not as if Denver hasn't had it's share of garbage minutes (they've had 8 games that were decided by 15 points or more so far, as compared to 10 by the (13-21) Kings at this point in 2013), and Cousins was earning his minutes (he was tied with Tyreke Evans for the second most win shares on the team behind our friend Isaiah Thomas).  Yes, the Kings were awful that year, but it's not like this year's Nuggets are that much better (they're just a half game ahead of where the Kings were at this point in 2013), and Cousins played because he helped the team, not just because he was young.

But, again, I'm not saying that you can;t compare him to Cousins because Cousins played more minutes, I'm saying that comparing players based on per36 numbers is misleading when you leave out their minutes played. I like Nurkic, but there's no way he'd keep up that efficiency in an extra 10 minutes a game (likewise, I'd expect Cousins' efficiency to have been higher if he had played 10 fewer minutes per game).  His per36 stats are nice, but they're also comparable to lesser guys like JJ Hickson, Sean May, John Henson, Jared Sullinger, Kenneth Faried, Greg Monroe, and Enes Kanter at the same age

[Chris22]

Noel all the way.

[moiso]

Noel all the way.

Ive never seen so many people wanting a stiff on their team.

[IDreamCeltics]

I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous

I actually think in many cases you'd be correct.  Comparing the per 36 minute stats of a backup to a starter is not really valuable since they're playing against different levels competition, but in this case we're comparing per 36 minute stats of a starting center to another starting center (Nurkic was the starter for Denver until last week).  The biggest difference between the two players is the situation.

Nurkic is playing for a team that A.  Wants to make the playoffs B.  Has another dynamic center that is a much better fit for how they want to play and C. Has changed its direction like 12 times in the last four years.
   
Cousins at 22 played for a team that was TRYING to lose games and had a mandate to play and develop him.  Ignoring the number of minutes and all the stats he put up in garbage time of their 54 losses that season seems more disingenuous to me than comparing one young starter's per minute averages to another's at the same age.   

It's not as if Denver hasn't had it's share of garbage minutes (they've had 8 games that were decided by 15 points or more so far, as compared to 10 by the (13-21) Kings at this point in 2013), and Cousins was earning his minutes (he was tied with Tyreke Evans for the second most win shares on the team behind our friend Isaiah Thomas).  Yes, the Kings were awful that year, but it's not like this year's Nuggets are that much better (they're just a half game ahead of where the Kings were at this point in 2013), and Cousins played because he helped the team, not just because he was young.

But, again, I'm not saying that you can;t compare him to Cousins because Cousins played more minutes, I'm saying that comparing players based on per36 numbers is misleading when you leave out their minutes played. I like Nurkic, but there's no way he'd keep up that efficiency in an extra 10 minutes a game (likewise, I'd expect Cousins' efficiency to have been higher if he had played 10 fewer minutes per game).  His per36 stats are nice, but they're also comparable to lesser guys like JJ Hickson, Sean May, John Henson, Jared Sullinger, Kenneth Faried, Greg Monroe, and Enes Kanter at the same age

Are they now?  Please feel free to post their per 36 numbers so we can compare them.

[BitterJim]

I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous

I actually think in many cases you'd be correct.  Comparing the per 36 minute stats of a backup to a starter is not really valuable since they're playing against different levels competition, but in this case we're comparing per 36 minute stats of a starting center to another starting center (Nurkic was the starter for Denver until last week).  The biggest difference between the two players is the situation.

Nurkic is playing for a team that A.  Wants to make the playoffs B.  Has another dynamic center that is a much better fit for how they want to play and C. Has changed its direction like 12 times in the last four years.
   
Cousins at 22 played for a team that was TRYING to lose games and had a mandate to play and develop him.  Ignoring the number of minutes and all the stats he put up in garbage time of their 54 losses that season seems more disingenuous to me than comparing one young starter's per minute averages to another's at the same age.   

It's not as if Denver hasn't had it's share of garbage minutes (they've had 8 games that were decided by 15 points or more so far, as compared to 10 by the (13-21) Kings at this point in 2013), and Cousins was earning his minutes (he was tied with Tyreke Evans for the second most win shares on the team behind our friend Isaiah Thomas).  Yes, the Kings were awful that year, but it's not like this year's Nuggets are that much better (they're just a half game ahead of where the Kings were at this point in 2013), and Cousins played because he helped the team, not just because he was young.

But, again, I'm not saying that you can;t compare him to Cousins because Cousins played more minutes, I'm saying that comparing players based on per36 numbers is misleading when you leave out their minutes played. I like Nurkic, but there's no way he'd keep up that efficiency in an extra 10 minutes a game (likewise, I'd expect Cousins' efficiency to have been higher if he had played 10 fewer minutes per game).  His per36 stats are nice, but they're also comparable to lesser guys like JJ Hickson, Sean May, John Henson, Jared Sullinger, Kenneth Faried, Greg Monroe, and Enes Kanter at the same age

Are they now?  Please feel free to post their per 36 numbers so we can compare them.

This is a full list of players who at 22 had at least 16 pts and 10 rbds per36 and their per36 stats

[PhoSita]

Bogut.

Should cost the least, and carries no future commitment in terms of the cap.

None of the listed players makes the Celts a favorite to beat Toronto, let alone Cleveland.  So, no sense in compromising cap space next summer.

I'd rather the Celts stand pat if this list is all that's out there.

If they want to consider going after Millsap, or even somebody like Vucevic, I could get behind that.  But adding another role player, even one who addresses some of the team's weaknesses, doesn't seem worth it to me unless the cost is very low and it doesn't hurt the team's ability to sign a big name FA this summer.

[Surferdad]

Do people realize Bogut has health concerns? He rarely ever gets through the playoffs. I'm shocked to see the poll results.

It's about cost-benefit.  Do you think any of the names on the list will be the last piece to winning a title?  I don't.  Accordingly I'll go with the cheapest one, so that we have a slightly better team.  I'm only counting on Bogut for 15 minutes a night, personally.  If he helps against some matchups where we'd get killed on the boards, and keeps Amir's minutes down so that he's fresher for the playoffs, that's good enough for me.

Why not trade for Noel? What are you saving the cap space for? Noel is better for now and long term.

I'm not anti-Noel, but I think Philly is asking too much, and they've made such a big deal out of it they might not lower their demands to something reasonable.  I honestly think Noel would have been already moved if they weren't overvaluing him.  My price for Noel is no more than Rozier and a lottery-protected 1st.  I wouldn't even give up the Memphis pick for him at this time.

For me it's less about cap space, and more about long-term salary obligations.  I haven't seen enough from Noel to be willing to break the bank for him, and yet I think he could get a big offer in free agency.  Matching a large offer could cost us a player I would prefer to keep the following summer.  I'm willing to let him walk, but that means I don't want to pay too much for him.

Yup, though I don't see a big difference between a lottery-protected 1st and the MEM pick.  I would probably do the deal either way.  I think half-a-season of Noel "evaluation" in Brad's system, plus rights to re-signed him are enough for me.

[IDreamCeltics]

I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous

I actually think in many cases you'd be correct.  Comparing the per 36 minute stats of a backup to a starter is not really valuable since they're playing against different levels competition, but in this case we're comparing per 36 minute stats of a starting center to another starting center (Nurkic was the starter for Denver until last week).  The biggest difference between the two players is the situation.

Nurkic is playing for a team that A.  Wants to make the playoffs B.  Has another dynamic center that is a much better fit for how they want to play and C. Has changed its direction like 12 times in the last four years.
   
Cousins at 22 played for a team that was TRYING to lose games and had a mandate to play and develop him.  Ignoring the number of minutes and all the stats he put up in garbage time of their 54 losses that season seems more disingenuous to me than comparing one young starter's per minute averages to another's at the same age.   

It's not as if Denver hasn't had it's share of garbage minutes (they've had 8 games that were decided by 15 points or more so far, as compared to 10 by the (13-21) Kings at this point in 2013), and Cousins was earning his minutes (he was tied with Tyreke Evans for the second most win shares on the team behind our friend Isaiah Thomas).  Yes, the Kings were awful that year, but it's not like this year's Nuggets are that much better (they're just a half game ahead of where the Kings were at this point in 2013), and Cousins played because he helped the team, not just because he was young.

But, again, I'm not saying that you can;t compare him to Cousins because Cousins played more minutes, I'm saying that comparing players based on per36 numbers is misleading when you leave out their minutes played. I like Nurkic, but there's no way he'd keep up that efficiency in an extra 10 minutes a game (likewise, I'd expect Cousins' efficiency to have been higher if he had played 10 fewer minutes per game).  His per36 stats are nice, but they're also comparable to lesser guys like JJ Hickson, Sean May, John Henson, Jared Sullinger, Kenneth Faried, Greg Monroe, and Enes Kanter at the same age

Are they now?  Please feel free to post their per 36 numbers so we can compare them.

This is a full list of players who at 22 had at least 16 pts and 10 rbds per36 and their per36 stats

That's great, but we also looked at assists, turnovers, blocks, steals, personal fouls, and field goal percentages when making our original comparison.

Please go ahead and post those for comparison's sake...

I can't recall who, but someone on this thread felt cherry picking stats was disingenuous, I just don't want your integrity to come under fire.