Poll

Which one of these players would you want the Celtics to acquire by the trade deadline?

Brook Lopez
Nerlens Noel
Andrew Bogut
Jusuf Nurkic
Omer Asik

Author Topic: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline  (Read 9514 times)

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Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2017, 10:20:44 AM »

Offline Cman

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Easily Bogut for me. He fills all our needs while also being a good enough passer to be successful in our offensive system. Furthermore, he brings no long-term commitment whatsoever.

^^ My thinking as well. He helps us get a little better this year, which might improve our chances of landing a top tier FA in the offseason, while also preserving our flexibility to go after such a FA. We also won't have to give up our crème de la crème assets like the Nets' picks (perhaps our own 2017 2018 pick or the Memphis pick).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:45:46 AM by Cman »
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Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2017, 10:21:04 AM »

Offline saltlover

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From those guys, it is definitely Nurkic.  While I (kind of) like Noel, his contract status is a problem.  The C's couldn't really hold onto him past this year while also using the cap space to upgrade another position.  And I just don't think he is good enough to warrant what he will most likely get paid.

Really though, the guy I want most is Okafor.  He would cost more than Noel, but I think there is a lot more potential there, and the contract makes more sense.

Of Noel and Nurkic, you take the one that you'd either a) rather have on a long-term deal, or b) costs less if you're uncertain you'd like either for a long time.  While Nurkic would preserve space for next season, acquiring a max deal next summer requires us to let Olynyk go (not an issue for some here, I freely admit), and presumably one of IT, Bradley and Smart the following season.  Nurkic also hits free agency in 2018, so that would probably mean he is out the door too, or causes two of Bradley, IT, and Smart to go.

I guess what I'm saying is that a max deal this summer will cost us several players over the next two summers, and so paying extra for Nurkic just to preserve that cap room might not be as useful as it seems.  If either Nurkic or Noel seems like a long-term solution, that's the one you go for, and eschew free agency this summer.  Otherwise you just get the cheapest of the two, or go for a stopgap like Bogut.

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2017, 10:21:51 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Easily Bogut for me. He fills all our needs while also being a good enough passer to be successful in our offensive system. Furthermore, he brings no long-term commitment whatsoever.

^^ My thinking as well. He helps us get a little better this year, which might improve our chances of landing a top tier FA in the offseason, while also preserving our flexibility to go after such a FA. We also won't have to give up our crème de la crème assets like the Nets' picks (perhaps our own 2017 pick or the Memphis pick).

If we give up any first for Bogut we've grossly overpaid.

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2017, 10:26:02 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous
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Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2017, 10:32:20 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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It depends on the price to acquire each big.

I voted Bogut, but I need to see him healthy before making a trade. I watched him play last week and he was laboring to get up and down the court.

Noel wouldn't be a bad move if the price is low enough, but I'm not sure I want to pay him next year so I wouldn't want to trade a lot.

Asik's contract is a non starter.

I think Lopez is good, but I think we can do better with our cap space.

Nurkic would be an amazing trade, but I think he is probably much more expensive than we would be willing to stomach. If the price to acquire was equal for all the options I would pick Nurkic.
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Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2017, 10:38:05 AM »

Offline MrMorrill

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Went with Nurkic... If you can get him for a decent price you've got him for the 2017-18 season at a low number so you aren't tying the cap up next year plus he seems like a solid fit with Horford. As for the rest...

Bogut: Injuries make me nervous.
Noel: Going to command big money next year. Is he worth it?
Asik: lol
Lopez: 22 million next year but would really make the Nets crap. Although you can bet they want a nice pick for him.

Although I'm on the Boogie train if that ever becomes a possibility.

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2017, 10:38:34 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Just skimming through several articles on trade talks, and it is very clear that the following centers are fully available to acquire at this trade deadline, and likely all of them will be moved:

Brook Lopez (would have the bonus of improving our pick)
Nerlens Noel
Andrew Bogut
Jusuf Nurkic
Omer Asik

I believe any of them can be acquired without giving up a Nets pick or a top asset like Smart or Brown. All of them would impact our salary cap. Which of these big men if any would you want us to trade for?

I'd like a Bogut rental please. We have so many future second round picks, new d-league players... We don't need more sunk costs like Marcus Thornton, Colton Iverson and RJ Hunter. I'd rather Danny spoil us by addressing this team's need for a big in the expense of some of these redundant future contracts, those guys do deserve a shot somewhere..

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2017, 10:39:02 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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It depends on the price to acquire each big.

I voted Bogut, but I need to see him healthy before making a trade. I watched him play last week and he was laboring to get up and down the court.

Noel wouldn't be a bad move if the price is low enough, but I'm not sure I want to pay him next year so I wouldn't want to trade a lot.

Asik's contract is a non starter.

I think Lopez is good, but I think we can do better with our cap space.

Nurkic would be an amazing trade, but I think he is probably much more expensive than we would be willing to stomach. If the price to acquire was equal for all the options I would pick Nurkic.

I'm in the same boat. Ideally I'd like Nurkic, but if the price for him is too high I'd be more than happy with Bogut.  Asik, Lopez, and probably Noel aren't even considerations for me
I'm bitter.

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2017, 10:41:21 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Bogut but cuban i don't think will throw in the towel on the season as long as dirk is around.

I think it depends how close they are to the playoffs. If at the trade deadline they are still7 or 8 games out I think they'll trade him. Zeller and lesser picks would be enough. They desperately lack young talent to complement Barnes and Matthews

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2017, 10:44:55 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I voted for Noel, but Nurkic may be the better offensive player?

All the others are vets who don't help the long-term, and certainly don't move the needle as far as beating Cleveland.

His per 36 numbers are shockingly close to what Boogie Cousins was putting up at the same age

Per 36 numbers at age 22
               Pts    Reb   Ast  Stls  Blcks  To    PF     FG%
Cousins    20.1  11.7  3.1  1.7   0.9    3.5  4.2   .465
Nurkic      17.1  12.2  2.8  1.2   1.7    4.0  4.0   .537

You should also include the minutes with this:
Boogie: 30.7 mpg
Nurkic: 19.7 mpg

It's nice that Nurkic is having a similar per-minute output to Cousins at that age, but that's a huge difference in minutes

Sure, and for further context we should probably add in that the 2012-2013 Sacramento Kings went 28-54 with Boogie playing 30.7 minutes a night.  Tanking teams let their young players play... is that your point?

No, the point I'm making is that while it's encouraging that Nurkic has played that effectively in less than 20 minutes per game, it's not really comparable to doing so in 30 minutes per game.  Keeping up that effectiveness for 50% more time is huge.  Using just per36 numbers without acknowledging the difference in minutes is disingenuous
+1

No way Nurkic would put up Boogie numbers if given the extra minutes. Just as I wouldn't expect Crowder to keep his TS% so high if he had the USG% of IT.

The trend is efficiency decreases as usage increases. It's what makes players like Cousins (and IT so far this year) special

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2017, 10:48:00 AM »

Offline fantankerous

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Bogut but cuban i don't think will throw in the towel on the season as long as dirk is around.

I think it depends how close they are to the playoffs. If at the trade deadline they are still7 or 8 games out I think they'll trade him. Zeller and lesser picks would be enough. They desperately lack young talent to complement Barnes and Matthews

They aren't seven games back now.  They are only four games out of the eighth spot.  Even last place Phoenix is only 4.5 games out.

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2017, 10:48:29 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I picked Bogut.



But the more I think about it, Nurkic.



Sure, he will cost more in a trade.  Likely one of Smart or Rozier plus a non-Net first round pick and a likely 2nd.



But, I think since the Celtics will still control him next year, he becomes a bigger trade piece then the PG and the 1st round pick they would have given up. 



Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2017, 11:01:10 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I would go for someone like Bogut. He plugs an immediate hole on your team and doesn't hinder you financially this year or in the future. Keep the real assets for a possible difference maker (if any become available). The trith is, it is looking more and more like that difference maker might be an offseason/draft day deal rather than in season.

Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2017, 11:03:15 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I picked Bogut.



But the more I think about it, Nurkic.



Sure, he will cost more in a trade.  Likely one of Smart or Rozier plus a non-Net first round pick and a likely 2nd.



But, I think since the Celtics will still control him next year, he becomes a bigger trade piece then the PG and the 1st round pick they would have given up.
If the price on Nurkic is Rozier, the Memphis first and Cleveland 2nd this year I'm completely on board.

Nurkic fits a need now and could develop into a great player and we can replace Rozier in a point guard rich draft.
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Re: Big men that are clearly available at this trade deadline
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2017, 11:03:24 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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Do people realize Bogut has health concerns? He rarely ever gets through the playoffs. I'm shocked to see the poll results.