Author Topic: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?  (Read 4761 times)

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Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2016, 08:36:05 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I feel like we have a shot at getting one of PG or Butler.

Unfortunately PG's contract doesn't expire for another 2.5 seasons- that's a lot of time for a master like Bird to swing things around.

The good news is that both franchises are slightly dysfunctional on the court at the moment.
Did anyone see Rondo sleeping on the bench when Butler single handedly brought them back for the win vs the Nets?

I'd probably prefer Butler over PG at the moment.

It's a good thing PG's contract doesn't expire for a bit.  The only way we're getting him is via a trade.  After this summer, we won't have cap room for a couple of decades again, I'd bet.  So if a trade can be swung for him, he'd be here long enough to not need to run away in free agency.

Brown + Zeller and Young for salary purposes, and both Brooklyn picks.  Come on Danny!

Actually, George's last year in 2018-2019 is a player option, which I would assume he opts out of to get a long-term deal. So after next season he'll more than likely be a free agent, which is the same as Cousins' timeline.

I think that actually helps us, because Bird doesn't have that extra year to sell George on building around him. I expect him to be traded at or before the draft, and Bird's relationship with Danny should help us out tremendously.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana_pacers/

http://hoopshype.com/player/paul-george/salary/

Larry Bird has been extremely adamant that he will not trade PG13. That could change by next summer, but I highly doubt he changes his stance unless the Pacers are absolutely horrible the next few months. Even then, not many teams would give up a ton for essentially a one year rental.

Yeah, he's been adamant now since it's still early in the season, but if they don't improve that will change by the draft, especially if we're dangling a top-3 pick for George in a loaded draft. They simply have no realistic route to seriously upgrade that team this summer.

What would you give up for PG13? I truthfully don't think he makes us legitimate contenders, and the cost will be high for him (as @saltlover implied). Not sure if it's worth it.
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Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2016, 08:46:37 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I feel like we have a shot at getting one of PG or Butler.

Unfortunately PG's contract doesn't expire for another 2.5 seasons- that's a lot of time for a master like Bird to swing things around.

The good news is that both franchises are slightly dysfunctional on the court at the moment.
Did anyone see Rondo sleeping on the bench when Butler single handedly brought them back for the win vs the Nets?

I'd probably prefer Butler over PG at the moment.

It's a good thing PG's contract doesn't expire for a bit.  The only way we're getting him is via a trade.  After this summer, we won't have cap room for a couple of decades again, I'd bet.  So if a trade can be swung for him, he'd be here long enough to not need to run away in free agency.

Brown + Zeller and Young for salary purposes, and both Brooklyn picks.  Come on Danny!

Actually, George's last year in 2018-2019 is a player option, which I would assume he opts out of to get a long-term deal. So after next season he'll more than likely be a free agent, which is the same as Cousins' timeline.

I think that actually helps us, because Bird doesn't have that extra year to sell George on building around him. I expect him to be traded at or before the draft, and Bird's relationship with Danny should help us out tremendously.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana_pacers/

http://hoopshype.com/player/paul-george/salary/

Larry Bird has been extremely adamant that he will not trade PG13. That could change by next summer, but I highly doubt he changes his stance unless the Pacers are absolutely horrible the next few months. Even then, not many teams would give up a ton for essentially a one year rental.

Yeah, he's been adamant now since it's still early in the season, but if they don't improve that will change by the draft, especially if we're dangling a top-3 pick for George in a loaded draft. They simply have no realistic route to seriously upgrade that team this summer.

What would you give up for PG13? I truthfully don't think he makes us legitimate contenders, and the cost will be high for him (as @saltlover implied). Not sure if it's worth it.

By himself, no, he won't make us contenders, because we still have a major hole at the big position next to Horford. However, I still say that we could pick up a big like Noel, who in combination with George would make us contenders, imo.

Something like Rozier and the Memphis pick for Noel;

Something like Zeller, Crowder, Brown, the 2017 Brooklyn pick, and another non-Brooklyn pick for George and CJ Miles;

That leaves us with the following lineup:

PG: IT, Smart
SG: AB, Green
SF: George, Miles
PF: Horford, JJ
C: Noel, KO

That's a championship contender with amazing shooting and amazing defense - pretty much the embodiment of a "3 and D" team, which is honestly what Brad ultimately wants.

On the other hand, if you consider Crowder and Bradley to have the same trade value (I'm not sure how they're valued across the league), it might be smarter to trade Bradley instead of Crowder. It gives you less overall shooting, but it will help out with the problem we'll have in 2018 with paying IT, Smart, and Bradley, along with giving us more overall size in the starting lineup.

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2016, 08:49:03 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I'd let AB go to acquire George ...no problemo

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2016, 08:56:57 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'd let AB go to acquire George ...no problemo

Depends on what else you have to give up.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 09:02:49 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I feel like we have a shot at getting one of PG or Butler.

Unfortunately PG's contract doesn't expire for another 2.5 seasons- that's a lot of time for a master like Bird to swing things around.

The good news is that both franchises are slightly dysfunctional on the court at the moment.
Did anyone see Rondo sleeping on the bench when Butler single handedly brought them back for the win vs the Nets?

I'd probably prefer Butler over PG at the moment.

It's a good thing PG's contract doesn't expire for a bit.  The only way we're getting him is via a trade.  After this summer, we won't have cap room for a couple of decades again, I'd bet.  So if a trade can be swung for him, he'd be here long enough to not need to run away in free agency.

Brown + Zeller and Young for salary purposes, and both Brooklyn picks.  Come on Danny!

Actually, George's last year in 2018-2019 is a player option, which I would assume he opts out of to get a long-term deal. So after next season he'll more than likely be a free agent, which is the same as Cousins' timeline.

I think that actually helps us, because Bird doesn't have that extra year to sell George on building around him. I expect him to be traded at or before the draft, and Bird's relationship with Danny should help us out tremendously.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana_pacers/

http://hoopshype.com/player/paul-george/salary/

Larry Bird has been extremely adamant that he will not trade PG13. That could change by next summer, but I highly doubt he changes his stance unless the Pacers are absolutely horrible the next few months. Even then, not many teams would give up a ton for essentially a one year rental.

Yeah, he's been adamant now since it's still early in the season, but if they don't improve that will change by the draft, especially if we're dangling a top-3 pick for George in a loaded draft. They simply have no realistic route to seriously upgrade that team this summer.

What would you give up for PG13? I truthfully don't think he makes us legitimate contenders, and the cost will be high for him (as @saltlover implied). Not sure if it's worth it.

By himself, no, he won't make us contenders, because we still have a major hole at the big position next to Horford. However, I still say that we could pick up a big like Noel, who in combination with George would make us contenders, imo.

Something like Rozier and the Memphis pick for Noel;

Something like Zeller, Crowder, Brown, the 2017 Brooklyn pick, and another non-Brooklyn pick for George and CJ Miles;

That leaves us with the following lineup:

PG: IT, Smart
SG: AB, Green
SF: George, Miles
PF: Horford, JJ
C: Noel, KO

That's a championship contender with amazing shooting and amazing defense - pretty much the embodiment of a "3 and D" team, which is honestly what Brad ultimately wants.

On the other hand, if you consider Crowder and Bradley to have the same trade value (I'm not sure how they're valued across the league), it might be smarter to trade Bradley instead of Crowder. It gives you less overall shooting, but it will help out with the problem we'll have in 2018 with paying IT, Smart, and Bradley, along with giving us more overall size in the starting lineup.

That looks like a great team. Hopefully PG13 would sign an extension here because he does have the player option so he could become a FA in 2018 as well. More decisions...
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2016, 06:01:01 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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I think the Celtics need to go for broke if the opportunity is there for Paul George. He is one of the top 5-10 natural scorers in the league who can create his own shot, but also shoot from the outside. This is not a trainable type of player.

In a separate deal, we should also go for a rebounding/defender....specifically Nerlens Noel.

For Paul George:

Boston Trades: Jae Crowder, Jonas Jerbeko, Jordan Mickey, James Young (salary filler), BKN 2018 1st, LAC 2019 1st, MEM 2019 1st


For Nerlens Noel:

Boston Trades: Terry Rozier, Gerald Green (salary filler), 2018 Boston 1st, and any 2nd rounders they want if they are going to be stubborn


The George trade could be adjusted....for instance, sending them 2017 BKN swap pick instead of the 2018 pick, but then taking back the MEM 2019 (which could end up being the best overall one out of them all, who knows).

Crowder, IMO, is only worth what he is because of his current contract. Trading him at more or less a peak value, saves us having to negotiate with him, and we can focus $$$ on re-singing IT/Smart, saving enough to re-up George down the road.

I think the Noel trade for Philly is only a matter of time. They have burned his true value but simply leaving him on the bench, and they will want to get a player they can use in their rotation/starting lineup. Rozier likely becomes their starting PG very quickly. I don't see what more they think they can get, unless there is a better PG in the league at a cheaper price somewhere else...

New Celtics Depth Chart

IT/Smart/Jackson
Bradley/Smart
George/Brown
Horford/Amir/KO
Noel/Horford/KO/Amir

Talk about roster consolidation. Our current starting lineups weaknesses also are instantly addressed with significant upgrades. IT likely becomes even more deadly with a floor-spacing wing like George, who commands respect on the outside. George can also take over a game/quarter whenever we need. Noel steps in as the athletic defender/rebounder we are lacking. Notice on the depth chart, yes, I have Noel as the starting "Center".....depending on the matchup, he and Horford are kind of interchangeable. When we have a more big bodied "true" Center, obviously Horford has more of the bulk to defend that. But Noel can guard most Centers in the league, but in this specific lineup, he is on the block making defensive plays, and crashing boards.

We consolidate everything in to one of the most potent 10-man rotations in the league. Obviously some veteran and D-league signings would have to be made.....pretty sure we can't call up Yabusele this season, right? So filling out the bench with true end of the bench guys, would need to be done.


Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2016, 06:03:08 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I feel like we have a shot at getting one of PG or Butler.

Unfortunately PG's contract doesn't expire for another 2.5 seasons- that's a lot of time for a master like Bird to swing things around.

The good news is that both franchises are slightly dysfunctional on the court at the moment.
Did anyone see Rondo sleeping on the bench when Butler single handedly brought them back for the win vs the Nets?

I'd probably prefer Butler over PG at the moment.

How has Larry Bird been a "master" as a GM?

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2016, 06:12:36 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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Crowder, IMO, is only worth what he is because of his current contract. Trading him at more or less a peak value, saves us having to negotiate with him, and we can focus $$$ on re-singing IT/Smart, saving enough to re-up George down the road.




Realizing my comment was kind of a knock on Crowder. Great player and a starter on almost every team. However, I would be very uncomfortable paying Crowder a max deal under the new CBA, as I feel what we are seeing now is the peak of his game. No real improvements have been made this season, and his outside shooting has remained enigmatic and unpredictable. He is also driving less....not sure if it's just more of IT taking over, and Horford getting more looks. I would just assume sending Crowder and his contract-friendly situation to a rebuilding team like Indy, would be where we get the most return in a trade.

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2016, 06:13:27 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88303.0

I wrote this post some days ago. You guys think PG13 could make us a legit contender IF we did get him? How about Jimmy Butler?

Price may be high for either but probably "at minimum" Nets Pick + Bradley/Crowder (only one) and filler/future picks. I don't think it's worth it but lots of people here say it is.

I'd give up picks and prospects to get one of them , but no way would I move any of core guys like Bradley or Crowder. Those two are perfect 6th men on a contender.

I sadly think that either would have to be included, OR Marcus Smart.

Very hesitant to do that as well. But Indiana OR Chicago likely dictate the price and want one young player.

For Cousins I would move Smart or Bradley or Crowder, but for George or Butler I'd give up both Nets picks plus Rozier and Zizic/Yabusele and Mickey. That or 1 Nets pick plus Brown.

I'm sure the Kings are just salivating at the idea of a Cousins for Smart swap...

"Hey wait a second!  We can get a defense-first-guard who shoots 2.81 from 3 and is ranked 156th in the league in real plus minus for our Franchise player!?  LOCK IT UP!!!"

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2016, 06:24:12 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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Crowder, IMO, is only worth what he is because of his current contract. Trading him at more or less a peak value, saves us having to negotiate with him, and we can focus $$$ on re-singing IT/Smart, saving enough to re-up George down the road.




Realizing my comment was kind of a knock on Crowder. Great player and a starter on almost every team. However, I would be very uncomfortable paying Crowder a max deal under the new CBA, as I feel what we are seeing now is the peak of his game. No real improvements have been made this season, and his outside shooting has remained enigmatic and unpredictable. He is also driving less....not sure if it's just more of IT taking over, and Horford getting more looks. I would just assume sending Crowder and his contract-friendly situation to a rebuilding team like Indy, would be where we get the most return in a trade.

Crowder to me is a lot like Trevor Ariza.  He's a really good basketball player who brings a lot to the table, he would contribute to any team he played for, but he's always going to be undervalued by GM's because he's pretty much at his ceiling.  It doesn't matter that he could play at this level for like 8 more seasons and that many elite prospects will never give you a single season this good.  His value is capped, and there's nothing worse for staying power in the NBA than your value being capped. 

 

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2016, 06:38:59 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88303.0

I wrote this post some days ago. You guys think PG13 could make us a legit contender IF we did get him? How about Jimmy Butler?

Price may be high for either but probably "at minimum" Nets Pick + Bradley/Crowder (only one) and filler/future picks. I don't think it's worth it but lots of people here say it is.

I'd give up picks and prospects to get one of them , but no way would I move any of core guys like Bradley or Crowder. Those two are perfect 6th men on a contender.

I sadly think that either would have to be included, OR Marcus Smart.

Very hesitant to do that as well. But Indiana OR Chicago likely dictate the price and want one young player.

For Cousins I would move Smart or Bradley or Crowder, but for George or Butler I'd give up both Nets picks plus Rozier and Zizic/Yabusele and Mickey. That or 1 Nets pick plus Brown.

I'm sure the Kings are just salivating at the idea of a Cousins for Smart swap...

"Hey wait a second!  We can get a defense-first-guard who shoots 2.81 from 3 and is ranked 156th in the league in real plus minus for our Franchise player!?  LOCK IT UP!!!"

Well obviously the deal would include both Nets picks and more prospects.

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2016, 07:22:03 PM »

Offline flybono

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http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88303.0

I wrote this post some days ago. You guys think PG13 could make us a legit contender IF we did get him? How about Jimmy Butler?

Price may be high for either but probably "at minimum" Nets Pick + Bradley/Crowder (only one) and filler/future picks. I don't think it's worth it but lots of people here say it is.


You still need a Big who can rebound!
PG is a much better shooter than Butler. PG + a legit C who can control the box and u beat the King

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2016, 07:23:02 PM »

Offline flybono

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Crowder, IMO, is only worth what he is because of his current contract. Trading him at more or less a peak value, saves us having to negotiate with him, and we can focus $$$ on re-singing IT/Smart, saving enough to re-up George down the road.


[/q


Realizing my comment was kind of a knock on Crowder. Great player and a starter on almost every team. However, I would be very uncomfortable paying Crowder a max deal under the new CBA, as I feel what we are seeing now is the peak of his game. No real improvements have been made this season, and his outside shooting has remained enigmatic and unpredictable. He is also driving less....not sure if it's just more of IT taking over, and Horford getting more looks. I would just assume sending Crowder and his contract-friendly situation to a rebuilding team like Indy, would be where we get the most return in a trade.

Crowder to me is a lot like Trevor Ariza.  He's a really good basketball player who brings a lot to the table, he would contribute to any team he played for, but he's always going to be undervalued by GM's because he's pretty much at his ceiling.  It doesn't matter that he could play at this level for like 8 more seasons and that many elite prospects will never give you a single season this good.  His value is capped, and there's nothing worse for staying power in the NBA than your value being capped. 

 



Crowder will get better when a legit C is brought in...

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2016, 07:35:23 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88303.0

I wrote this post some days ago. You guys think PG13 could make us a legit contender IF we did get him? How about Jimmy Butler?

Price may be high for either but probably "at minimum" Nets Pick + Bradley/Crowder (only one) and filler/future picks. I don't think it's worth it but lots of people here say it is.


You still need a Big who can rebound!
PG is a much better shooter than Butler. PG + a legit C who can control the box and u beat the King

Can the Celtics afford to keep all of IT, Bradley or Smart, PG13, the supposed "legit big" after 2018? That's going to be a HUGE luxury tax...
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Trouble brewing in Indiana with Paul George?
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2016, 08:12:37 PM »

Offline jambr380

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http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88303.0

I wrote this post some days ago. You guys think PG13 could make us a legit contender IF we did get him? How about Jimmy Butler?

Price may be high for either but probably "at minimum" Nets Pick + Bradley/Crowder (only one) and filler/future picks. I don't think it's worth it but lots of people here say it is.


You still need a Big who can rebound!
PG is a much better shooter than Butler. PG + a legit C who can control the box and u beat the King

Can the Celtics afford to keep all of IT, Bradley or Smart, PG13, the supposed "legit big" after 2018? That's going to be a HUGE luxury tax...

Yeah, as jp said, that's why you almost have to keep Crowder over AB. It's a tough pill to swallow letting AB go, but his value has increased and he fits with literally any other team in the league. Crowder's $7M is going to come in really handy when it is time to pay everybody.