Author Topic: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea  (Read 2812 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2016, 12:04:58 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
It doesn't make sense to trade Thomas if we're trying to get Boogie. The whole idea of why Boogie would do better here than in Sacramento is that he'd be on a team with a winning, competitive culture and a competent front office. Thomas is a key part of that culture, and trading him while getting Boogie is a near wash. It makes no sense to trade our best player in a Boogie trade when the whole point of a big trade is to lift us to contention.

Boston won't trade IT for anyone outside the Westbrook/Kyrie/Wall echelon on PG's because he's too important to this team/city that we would need an obvious upgrade/replacement to be worth trading him for, and I don't think that deal is happening.

I would not trade IT for Wall.
Wall is a much better PG than IT.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2016, 12:10:26 PM »

Offline seancally

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
  • Tommy Points: 119
I don't see it. Does this lineup scare anyone in the west?

IT
Wes Matthews
Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay
Dirk
WCS

2018 playoffs, sure. 2017, it might be worth a pummeling in the first round. And then, a year later, Dirk retires and you have A) no young 2017 rookie stud and B) no clear building block, unless you consider Barnes and WCS those types of players. And maybe they are.

I do think that's the kind of trade that would be necessary to pry away Boogie. And this also sort of illustrates the issue with making sure you keep your aging stars (ahem Kobe) - lose them for nothing, waste their last couple years of relevancy, put your team in no-man's land.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2016, 12:21:25 PM »

Offline coffee425

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 955
  • Tommy Points: 122
I don't see it. Does this lineup scare anyone in the west?

IT
Wes Matthews
Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay
Dirk
WCS

2018 playoffs, sure. 2017, it might be worth a pummeling in the first round. And then, a year later, Dirk retires and you have A) no young 2017 rookie stud and B) no clear building block, unless you consider Barnes and WCS those types of players. And maybe they are.


The celtics were a top 5 defense with IT4, Amir, and Sullinger starting last year. The starting lineup with dallas above would definitely be a top 5 defense with a top 10 offense. Let's not forget that Carlisle is one of two coaches considered better than Brad Stevens too.
Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2016, 12:36:45 PM »

Offline seancally

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
  • Tommy Points: 119
I don't see it. Does this lineup scare anyone in the west?

IT
Wes Matthews
Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay
Dirk
WCS

2018 playoffs, sure. 2017, it might be worth a pummeling in the first round. And then, a year later, Dirk retires and you have A) no young 2017 rookie stud and B) no clear building block, unless you consider Barnes and WCS those types of players. And maybe they are.


The celtics were a top 5 defense with IT4, Amir, and Sullinger starting last year. The starting lineup with dallas above would definitely be a top 5 defense with a top 10 offense. Let's not forget that Carlisle is one of two coaches considered better than Brad Stevens too.

Carlisle would get them playing well for sure, but Sully was a better rebounder than anyone in that lineup, Amir is a better individual defender than Dirk, and Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart help cover up some of IT's deficiencies.

I don't think it's an awful team, just not one that can make a playoff push in a loaded western conference, and not one that will get better (or even remain at the same level) over the long haul. And for that reason, I think Cuban would hesitate to hand over the rights to a possible top-5 pick.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2016, 12:42:51 PM »

Offline coffee425

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 955
  • Tommy Points: 122
I don't see it. Does this lineup scare anyone in the west?

IT
Wes Matthews
Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay
Dirk
WCS

2018 playoffs, sure. 2017, it might be worth a pummeling in the first round. And then, a year later, Dirk retires and you have A) no young 2017 rookie stud and B) no clear building block, unless you consider Barnes and WCS those types of players. And maybe they are.


The celtics were a top 5 defense with IT4, Amir, and Sullinger starting last year. The starting lineup with dallas above would definitely be a top 5 defense with a top 10 offense. Let's not forget that Carlisle is one of two coaches considered better than Brad Stevens too.

Carlisle would get them playing well for sure, but Sully was a better rebounder than anyone in that lineup, Amir is a better individual defender than Dirk, and Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart help cover up some of IT's deficiencies.

I don't think it's an awful team, just not one that can make a playoff push in a loaded western conference, and not one that will get better (or even remain at the same level) over the long haul. And for that reason, I think Cuban would hesitate to hand over the rights to a possible top-5 pick.

Then they're forced to trade Dirk. Even a top-5 player will take 3 years to find himself and be playoff bound. Dirk will be broadcasting by then.
Quote
Even at the end of the game, we lined up in different formation that he hadn't seen and he called out our play before I got the ball. I heard him calling it out. -John Wall on Brad Stevens

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2016, 12:47:16 PM »

Offline seancally

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
  • Tommy Points: 119
I don't see it. Does this lineup scare anyone in the west?

IT
Wes Matthews
Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay
Dirk
WCS

2018 playoffs, sure. 2017, it might be worth a pummeling in the first round. And then, a year later, Dirk retires and you have A) no young 2017 rookie stud and B) no clear building block, unless you consider Barnes and WCS those types of players. And maybe they are.


The celtics were a top 5 defense with IT4, Amir, and Sullinger starting last year. The starting lineup with dallas above would definitely be a top 5 defense with a top 10 offense. Let's not forget that Carlisle is one of two coaches considered better than Brad Stevens too.

Carlisle would get them playing well for sure, but Sully was a better rebounder than anyone in that lineup, Amir is a better individual defender than Dirk, and Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart help cover up some of IT's deficiencies.

I don't think it's an awful team, just not one that can make a playoff push in a loaded western conference, and not one that will get better (or even remain at the same level) over the long haul. And for that reason, I think Cuban would hesitate to hand over the rights to a possible top-5 pick.

Then they're forced to trade Dirk. Even a top-5 player will take 3 years to find himself and be playoff bound. Dirk will be broadcasting by then.

Yeah, I mean, I don't really envy the Mavs' situation.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2016, 01:45:20 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2154
  • Tommy Points: 567
Yeah, I mean, I don't really envy the Mavs' situation.

It could be worse. They could be the Nets.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2016, 02:07:10 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I don't see it. Does this lineup scare anyone in the west?

IT
Wes Matthews
Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay
Dirk
WCS

2018 playoffs, sure. 2017, it might be worth a pummeling in the first round. And then, a year later, Dirk retires and you have A) no young 2017 rookie stud and B) no clear building block, unless you consider Barnes and WCS those types of players. And maybe they are.


The celtics were a top 5 defense with IT4, Amir, and Sullinger starting last year. The starting lineup with dallas above would definitely be a top 5 defense with a top 10 offense. Let's not forget that Carlisle is one of two coaches considered better than Brad Stevens too.

Carlisle would get them playing well for sure, but Sully was a better rebounder than anyone in that lineup, Amir is a better individual defender than Dirk, and Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart help cover up some of IT's deficiencies.

I don't think it's an awful team, just not one that can make a playoff push in a loaded western conference, and not one that will get better (or even remain at the same level) over the long haul. And for that reason, I think Cuban would hesitate to hand over the rights to a possible top-5 pick.
The West isn't exactly deep.  Loaded teams at the top, absolutely, but if the playoffs started today the 8th seed would be 14-17 Sacramento.  Dallas is 5.5 games behind Sacto.  Now sure that just means a one sided beatdown at the hands of the Warriors, but it isn't like the playoffs are out of reach.  If they somehow caught the Grizzlies or Jazz for 7, I think that team could give the Spurs fits if Dirk was truly healthy (which he would have to be for them to be the 7th seed).

I don't think Dallas trades their first this year, but if they made that type of move in the next week or so, then I could certainly see Dallas making the playoffs and thus the pick not even being a lottery pick.

That said, there is no way Boston is trading Thomas in that type of scenario.  Boston isn't going to trade Thomas unless it upgrades the position or takes a slight PG downgrade with a big upgrade elsewhere.  The trade in this thread doesn't do either of those things and thus Boston wouldn't make it.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Dal-Sac-Bos Trade Idea
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2016, 02:51:37 PM »

Offline seancally

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1097
  • Tommy Points: 119
I don't think Boston would be so disinclined to move on from IT if it meant landing Boogie and sacrificing little else in terms of immediate assets. I don't think they do it for the package outlined - and I also don't think SAC takes back IT, so props on the trade idea sending him to DAL - but some version of it, maybe.

If you manage to have Boston keep this year's BKN pick and get Boogie for IT, future picks, maybe a young guy or two, I think Ainge would think long and hard. It would mean giving up a current All-Star guard for a current All-League center and the possibility of landing "PG of the Future" in this year's draft.

All of this is a far flung, unlikely scenario.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens