Agree With Chris Mannix? PG13 OR Jimmy Butler Makes Us Legit Contenders?

[Phantom255x]

http://www.csnne.com/video/wish-list-celtics-find-way-get-paul-george-or-jimmy-butler

I don't know if people saw this, but Mannix briefly appeared on CSNNE yesterday before the Christmas Day Game between BOS-NY.

When asked what Boston's Christmas Wish List should be, he said the Celtics should try hard to trade for Paul George OR Jimmy Butler.

HIS LOGIC: The Celtics NEED a scoring wing MORE than a rebounder (basically a go-to scorer alongside IT and Bradley right now).

While Mannix acknowledged no stars are available right now (understandably) and that Butler and PG13 are "pipe dreams" for now, IF their respective teams falter in January and first half of February, they could be available, and he thinks the C's should finally pull the trigger on a deal for any of the two.

MY TAKE: I truthfully don't think either player makes Boston a legitimate contender, but that's what Mannix believes. I view Butler as better than Bradley, but not by a large margin, and PG13 is more of a #2 piece on a contending team, but not the alpha, sort of like Carmelo Anthony with the Knicks. The price for either is also likely a Nets Pick + Bradley/Crowder at the minimum, and some more I believe (filler). Not worth it in my opinion.

Do you guys think either player added to this team makes us a legitimate contender?

(This isn't a question of whether you make the trade, it's a question of whether adding either truly makes us a championship contender for the next few seasons).

[walker834]

I think the price on both is going to be  high.  Jimmy Butler is chicago's franchise player.  Same with Paul George. Larry Bird isn't going to just give them to us.  Hayward is more intriguing this offseason, but what I think we really need is to give the ball to Jaylen at some point.

Mannix likes to start rumors or just isn't the guy sometimes lol.  I like him but he comes up with stuff out of thin air.

[Phantom255x]

I think the price on both is going to be  high.  Jimmy Butler is chicago's franchise player.  Same with Paul George. Larry Bird isn't going to just give them to us.  Hayward is more intriguing this offseason, but what I think we really need is to give the ball to Jaylen at some point.

Mannix likes to start rumors or just isn't the guy sometimes lol.  I like him but he comes up with stuff out of thin air.

Yeah as I said I don't think either makes us contenders, also considering the price is probably a future Nets Pick + Bradley or Crowder at the minimum (and some more filler/future picks). I just don't think its worth it, even if they are willing to take the 2018 Nets Pick instead of 2017.

I also don't think Hayward will be available. With new CBA, I think he stays with Utah for extra year + extra $$$, and Utah is 18-13 like Boston right now (in a good spot and similar to Boston). Why would he leave?

[Moranis]

I don't think either makes Boston a contender, though Boston would certainly be closer with either than without them.  I think George is not only better, but a better fit so if it was one or the other for basically the same package I'd go with George.

[GRADYCOLNON]

Mannix is a fool.  Butler or George aren't going to push us over the top to win a title.  We need to have rebounding to be close to breaking into the top 4 teams.  Although they would continue to add to one on one scoring, they don't contribute to a net positive offensive flow as they are isolation players.  They will compensate for the defense lost with either Bradley or Crowder, but there could be issues pertaining to who is alpha (Thomas isn't gonna move over for players not as dominant).  I'd rather have a rebounder that dominates and his offense doesn't take away from Isaiah's reps.

[LilRip]

If we keep the team intact (starting 5 with Smart and KO), adding a guy like PG or Jimmy makes us a contender IMO. We're an impact player away from being considered a contender and both those guys are high impact 2-way players that will make a huge difference

[jpotter33]

I definitely think adding Butler/George AND someone like Noel to the team would make us contenders, but not just Butler/George alone. We're not a true contender with Amir as a starter.

Let's say the trade for either George/Butler is Zeller (salary), Brown, Young, and the two Brooklyn picks.

Let's say the trade for Noel is Rozier and the Memphis pick.

That'd leave you with the following roster:

PG: IT, Smart
SG: Bradley, Green
SF: George/Butler, Crowder
PF: Horford, JJ
C: Noel, KO, Amir

That's definitely a championship-level roster.

A less ideal scenario is the Bulls/Pacers demanding Crowder/Bradley rather than the 2018 pick, but we're still a contender in that scenario I think. So let's suppose the trade would be Crowder, Zeller, Brown, and the 2017 Brooklyn pick for George. I'd try to get Miles back in that trade, which shouldn't be a deal breaker, and that'd leave us with:

PG: IT, Smart
SG: Bradley, Green
SF: George/Butler, Miles
PF: Horford, JJ
C: Noel, KO, Amir

That's still a championship-level roster.

EDIT: And iirc, the rumored trade value for Butler that Chicago wanted from us at the draft was the 2016 draft pick (which turned into Brown), Crowder, and the 2017 pick. I think you have to do that deal today if offered, as long as you have another upgrade in place for Amir, such as Noel.

[Who]

Yes

[jambr380]

I think the price on both is going to be  high.  Jimmy Butler is chicago's franchise player.  Same with Paul George. Larry Bird isn't going to just give them to us.  Hayward is more intriguing this offseason, but what I think we really need is to give the ball to Jaylen at some point.

Mannix likes to start rumors or just isn't the guy sometimes lol.  I like him but he comes up with stuff out of thin air.

Yeah as I said I don't think either makes us contenders, also considering the price is probably a future Nets Pick + Bradley or Crowder at the minimum (and some more filler/future picks). I just don't think its worth it, even if they are willing to take the 2018 Nets Pick instead of 2017.

I also don't think Hayward will be available. With new CBA, I think he stays with Utah for extra year + extra $$$, and Utah is 18-13 like Boston right now (in a good spot and similar to Boston). Why would he leave?

New CBA could hurt us, but I will use the same logic as I did last year with Horford. Right now, Utah has the same record as we do, but if we just simply added Hayward to our team, we would likely have the better record. That is what we are able to do this off-season.

Of course I would love to have Butler, George, Cousins, Griffin, etc, by trade, but this off-season, we have a real opportunity to pick up another all-star level player using only cap space.

[PAOBoston]

Yes, it does. The Celtics biggest need right now is adding another scorer/offensive player. The rebounding thing is overblown. No where as big an issue as a secondary scoring piece on this team. Adding PG or Butler stills keeps the defence presence on the court but adds a much needed scoring capability.

[slamtheking]

adding just one of them, no, we're not contenders.  would need to also add a talented big man that at least adds rebounding and D if not some respectable offense.

[Bobshot]

The 3 is one of their strengths, with Crowder and Brown. They are weak at the 4 and 5 , except for Horford, so George and Butler don't fill a need. Besides, they would have to give up a lot to get either--certainly a starter and a Nets pick. You don't get stars just to get a star, you have to fill a need. Durant, for example, would have played the 4. A guy like Noel who fills a defensive need might make them closer to a contender than another 3. If they strengthened their rebounding, they might get more 2nd shots.

[Csfan1984]

Don't agree with Mannix. As others have said upgrading 4/5 is bigger need. Crowder and Brown are decent options at SF.

[Evantime34]

I guess it depends on what your definition of a contender is. If we added Jimmy Butler or Paul George we are better than everyone in the east except Cleveland.

If either becomes available I would be shocked.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Guess it depends on whom Boston trades in exchange, but in a vacuum, of course either of those players makes Boston better, but beating Cleveland in a 7-game series would still be a longshot.

Adding Cousins, on the other hand ...