Marcus Smart needs to leave Boston or his career will never get better

[celtics2030]

Rondo was a very good passer and elite that way. He fit well with pierce, kg and RAy and perk.  Smart is an elite defender.  Elfriid could fit as an in between on a team but he is not as good as rondo who we got rid of because he was too ball dominant.

smart is an elite defender and a smart basketball player. he just can't shoot.

Rondo weas legit because of his passing.  He was able to win a championship that way.  Without the big 3 and every else he's gone he's been not too great.

He was legit in that he did that at a high level. 

Smart is an elite defender and heady player.  He just can't shoot. he could win a championship if surrounded by guys just the same.

All of them would be fairly mediocre on bad teams but Elfriid really hasn't been anything but that so far in his career.  He's never contributed to a good basketball team ever.

Smart not only can't shoot but he can't do much of anything in scoring output. He can't drive, hes not a specialist, he cant get to the line, he is average at best at penetrating and he gets blocked or throws up trash when he gets to the rim.

So I don't want to hear you say , he just cant shoot. He can't do a lot of things. You are neglecting that area.

Elfrid at least has made an improvements and has gotten better.

Both these guys don't start right now, but Elfrid seems to be flourishing off the bench as to which Smart cannot because his game depends on shooting 30 foot 3 pointers.

If he is not doing that , he is basically just running a basketball team. That little guy the Celtics had could do that too

The one difference? Smart is a very good defender. But in time that will wear out too and he will become a Tony Allen specialist type player.

[celtics2030]

Look at these stats.
Nevermind that Payton is no doubt better in the last 10 games and in December.

But look closely in the WINS and LOSSES department. It further proves my point that he is a mediocre player who plays HARD DEFENSE

If Smart is such a winning basketball player why
is he so much worse in WINS ? he is shooting a sizzling 31% from the field and averaging 6.6 points a game. Why? Because he is coming off the bench and the guy that is winning those games is IT!

In losses Smart plays wayyyyy better, but what do they do? lose , of course because i bet in most of those games he was starting and playing more minutes for injured players.

Meanwhile Payton

In wins , is shooting almost 49% , averaging 6.5 assists a game and scoring 12.7 points a game.

in losses he still is better than Smart is in wins.

How I am even arguing this is beyond me.

[Ilikesports17]

I keep forgetting to mention how Elfrid Payton has gotten much better in year 3 as to where Smart has somewhat regressed or stayed the same in the deficiencies that both had.

Imo, Smart is better

havent watched much Magic, so I cant really speak on it, but his stats do not suggest much improvement.

Also His minutes have gone down despite Oladipo being traded.

And there is also the fact that, you know, Orland sucks.

Orlando is 13-17 , they are not great, but they do have good pieces.

If Orlando had an IT they would be good. And we all know how Boston looks without IT.

good enough to crush the magic.

[Ilikesports17]

Look at these stats.
Nevermind that Payton is no doubt better in the last 10 games and in December.

But look closely in the WINS and LOSSES department. It further proves my point that he is a mediocre player who plays HARD DEFENSE

If Smart is such a winning basketball player why
is he so much worse in WINS ? he is shooting a sizzling 31% from the field and averaging 6.6 points a game. Why? Because he is coming off the bench and the guy that is winning those games is IT!

In wins Smart plays wayyyyy better, but what do they do? LOSE , of course because i bet in most of those games he was starting and playing more minutes for injured players.

Meanwhile Payton

In wins , is shooting almost 49% , averaging 6.5 assists a game and scoring 12.7 points a game.

in losses he still is better than Smart is in wins.

How I am even arguing this is beyond me.

Im not sure it does.

If you watch the Celtics a lot then you know that Marcus tends to search for his offense much more when no one else is scoring.

The Celtics are down big, Marcus will often try to get some going. I think he gets frustrated with the passivity of the other (much more offensively talented) players. When we play well Smart doesnt feel the same need to do that and fades back into his role as a guy who makes good passes and hustles his ass off. This makes sense as his rebound and assist numbers are up.

Also, as you note. A lot of the games where hes had an expanded role have been because he has started. Half of these starts came starting at Small Forward and a handful had the Cs without Al Horford as well as Jae. The other half came with him starting at point gaurd where we went 1-3.

In these 9 starts Smart put up 11/5/4 with 2 steals and 41% shooting. Not bad at all considering he played half those games out of position at the 3.

Obviously we lost a lot of games where we had Big Al/Jae or Isaiah Thomas out and that isnt an indictment on Smart so much as it is on those other players.

Anyway, Smart is a player who doesnt give a **** about his shooting percentage or points per game. If he feels that the team is failing to generate offense he will look for his own. If the offense is fine he will continue to be that role-player that is ultimately his best fit.

When we are playing bad Smart steps up. I love that about him.

[walker834]

tony allen > elfriid payton. marcus smart is better than tony allen. Although ta is looking pretty grizzled as a vet these days.  Marcus is still better than him.

basketball is not just numbers. 

payton could be good as a roleplayer but his game is weird where he's a bad starter on a bad team.

he hasn't done what TA and Smart have done in their careers contributing on good teams.  Or Rondo for that matter.

payton has been nothing but a bad player on bad teams so far in his career. Is that entirely his fault? No but he hasn't shown that he can be a roleplayer either.

IT actually showed he could be a good roleplayer on bad teams. And a very good starter here.  Crowder has also contributed as a starter on good teams. 

[Ilikesports17]

tony allen > elfriid payton. marcus smart is better than tony allen. Although ta is looking pretty grizzled as a vet these days.  Marcus is still better than him.

basketball is not just numbers. 

payton could be good as a roleplayer but his game is weird where he's a bad starter on a bad team.

he hasn't done what TA and Smart have done in their careers contributing on good teams.  Or Rondo for that matter.

payton has been nothing but a bad player on bad teams so far in his career. Is that entirely his fault? No but he hasn't shown that he can be a roleplayer either.

IT actually showed he could be a good roleplayer on bad teams.

worth noting that Elfrid Payton has been in a pretty Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ty situation. Hes on a terribly constructed magic team and while his game requires a team having a lot of shooters, his team is starved of them.

[walker834]

Those teams were using IT and Crowder wrong.  Payton could be a decent roleplayer maybe but has never been utilized that way and has been nothing but a bad starter on bad teams. It's not entirely his fault no.

He could be a decent role guy imo but he's never been that.

[walker834]

I like Elfriid but other than being in the nba i make fun of him sometimes because he hasn't shown much besides having a mop for a head. decent passer and all around player.  can score in a variety of ways.   nothing really stands out about him except maybe as a role guy sans hedu turgoglu or something and that mop he has for a head.  pretty crafty passer.  He's not on Rondo's level. He's not boxing out millsap either.  Might get some hustle points here and there. Pretty well rounded but turns the ball over fair amount and not that efficient himself.

Decent player.  his biggest asset is his passing and crafty nature.  he's fairly crafty.  he's not on rondo's level.  Or smarts defensively.   Or IT with his scoring.   he's different than them.

[mctyson]

I keep forgetting to mention how Elfrid Payton has gotten much better in year 3 as to where Smart has somewhat regressed or stayed the same in the deficiencies that both had.

Imo, Smart is better

havent watched much Magic, so I cant really speak on it, but his stats do not suggest much improvement.

Also His minutes have gone down despite Oladipo being traded.

And there is also the fact that, you know, Orland sucks.

Orlando is 13-17 , they are not great, but they do have good pieces.

If Orlando had an IT they would be good. And we all know how Boston looks without IT.

Without IT, Boston is better than Orlando.  13-17 sucks.  And Elfrid Payton helps them suck.

[mctyson]

While you are comparing Smart to other players, go look at his stats vs. Justise Winslow.

[droopdog7]

Bottom line is this.  Marcus smart is not good enough now, and probably in the future, to block us from drafting anyone in this draft.  If we ended up at #1, you draft fultz without blinking.  I probably draft any of the top three pg's without blinking.

[walker834]

I think that's fair although until the pick is in. I would be somewhat surprised if we take Smith although  he's super talented..  Fultz wouldnt surprise me.  Also wouldnt be surprised to see ainge get a bit enamored with ball.  I think jackson has to be above him though at least right now.  Even tatum.

I think Ainge would definately consider Fultz if we end up with the #1 pick.  This draft is not that set in stone though. 

The same goes in reverse where we may just like marcus.

I think jackson is good enough a prospect where he could give anyone a run for their money in this draft.  Fultz is the #1 guy though.

We'd most likely be looking at moving marcus for a guy like jordan if that were the case.  That has to be there though.

things would get interesting if we end up with th #1 pick much like if we had this year with Simmons.

Fultz is just as intriguing if not moreso for differnt reasons.  More solid all around player imo.  Fultz probably has a better chance of actually happening. He's really good and would fit here without much adjustment.  We'd have to move Marcus though I think.

Simmons really could have played PF for us. NOt the most ideal but would have been interesting.

Giles is just starting to play and might slide down drafts if he doesn't have a really good showing.

[celtics2030]

Look at these stats.
Nevermind that Payton is no doubt better in the last 10 games and in December.

But look closely in the WINS and LOSSES department. It further proves my point that he is a mediocre player who plays HARD DEFENSE

If Smart is such a winning basketball player why
is he so much worse in WINS ? he is shooting a sizzling 31% from the field and averaging 6.6 points a game. Why? Because he is coming off the bench and the guy that is winning those games is IT!

In wins Smart plays wayyyyy better, but what do they do? LOSE , of course because i bet in most of those games he was starting and playing more minutes for injured players.

Meanwhile Payton

In wins , is shooting almost 49% , averaging 6.5 assists a game and scoring 12.7 points a game.

in losses he still is better than Smart is in wins.

How I am even arguing this is beyond me.

Im not sure it does.

If you watch the Celtics a lot then you know that Marcus tends to search for his offense much more when no one else is scoring.

The Celtics are down big, Marcus will often try to get some going. I think he gets frustrated with the passivity of the other (much more offensively talented) players. When we play well Smart doesnt feel the same need to do that and fades back into his role as a guy who makes good passes and hustles his ass off. This makes sense as his rebound and assist numbers are up.

Also, as you note. A lot of the games where hes had an expanded role have been because he has started. Half of these starts came starting at Small Forward and a handful had the Cs without Al Horford as well as Jae. The other half came with him starting at point gaurd where we went 1-3.

In these 9 starts Smart put up 11/5/4 with 2 steals and 41% shooting. Not bad at all considering he played half those games out of position at the 3.

Obviously we lost a lot of games where we had Big Al/Jae or Isaiah Thomas out and that isnt an indictment on Smart so much as it is on those other players.

Anyway, Smart is a player who doesnt give a **** about his shooting percentage or points per game. If he feels that the team is failing to generate offense he will look for his own. If the offense is fine he will continue to be that role-player that is ultimately his best fit.

When we are playing bad Smart steps up. I love that about him.

lol the entire response means nothing to the game of basketball, your basically telling me how Marcus Smart is feeling lol wth?

I have given you what Marcus Smart does well. Nobody is saying he is a terrible player.

He is just not capable of scoring well in ways.

He can occasionaly get hot but more so than not he is a 37% shooter for his career, hes not a specialist, hes not a drive and peneatration guy.

He is a solid point guard who can run the team, play hard, get big stops, big plays. HE is a very good defender.

What else can you say?

[celtics2030]

While you are comparing Smart to other players, go look at his stats vs. Justise Winslow.

Why ? And I barely know what the report is on Winslow and what he is suppossedly has in terms of skills.

His stats look pretty bad though.

Im not even saying Smart is a bad pick.

[celtics2030]

I like Elfriid but other than being in the nba i make fun of him sometimes because he hasn't shown much besides having a mop for a head. decent passer and all around player.  can score in a variety of ways.   nothing really stands out about him except maybe as a role guy sans hedu turgoglu or something and that mop he has for a head.  pretty crafty passer.  He's not on Rondo's level. He's not boxing out millsap either.  Might get some hustle points here and there. Pretty well rounded but turns the ball over fair amount and not that efficient himself.

Decent player.  his biggest asset is his passing and crafty nature.  he's fairly crafty.  he's not on rondo's level.  Or smarts defensively.   Or IT with his scoring.   he's different than them.

He is actually better than Rondo and Smart now.