Author Topic: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?  (Read 31082 times)

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Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #150 on: March 27, 2017, 11:22:58 PM »

Online trickybilly

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Noel having yet another good game.

My only complaint from Danny (since Rondo trade, where I proved to be horribly wrong) in the last 10 years was missing on this guy. Surely we could have offered more than Justin Anderson and a probably protected first rounder.

It is only two second rounders. It is eliminated from being a first rounder

So it is, and 99% it was when the trade actually happened. Jeesh! Presumably Danny wasn't willing to package Rozier and Zeller and our 2018 first or just Olynyk.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #151 on: March 28, 2017, 07:11:32 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Noel having yet another good game.

My only complaint from Danny (since Rondo trade, where I proved to be horribly wrong) in the last 10 years was missing on this guy. Surely we could have offered more than Justin Anderson and a probably protected first rounder.

It is only two second rounders. It is eliminated from being a first rounder

So it is, and 99% it was when the trade actually happened. Jeesh! Presumably Danny wasn't willing to package Rozier and Zeller and our 2018 first or just Olynyk.

Or he didn't want to resign Noel because, or he has a gentlemen's agreement with a FA for the summer, or disrupt team chemistry, or many other possibilities.

I would have loved Cousins for the ridiculous price he was gotten, but I can't criticize our front office for that, since we can't know all the inside details.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #152 on: March 28, 2017, 07:45:10 AM »

Online trickybilly

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Noel having yet another good game.

My only complaint from Danny (since Rondo trade, where I proved to be horribly wrong) in the last 10 years was missing on this guy. Surely we could have offered more than Justin Anderson and a probably protected first rounder.

It is only two second rounders. It is eliminated from being a first rounder

So it is, and 99% it was when the trade actually happened. Jeesh! Presumably Danny wasn't willing to package Rozier and Zeller and our 2018 first or just Olynyk.

Or he didn't want to resign Noel because, or he has a gentlemen's agreement with a FA for the summer, or disrupt team chemistry, or many other possibilities.

I would have loved Cousins for the ridiculous price he was gotten, but I can't criticize our front office for that, since we can't know all the inside details.

TP.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #153 on: March 28, 2017, 10:47:38 AM »

Offline oldtype

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Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.


Great words from a great man

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #154 on: March 28, 2017, 10:51:08 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.
He doesn't cost any cap space since he is a free agent.  Which is why I just don't buy that argument especially given his price.
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Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #155 on: March 28, 2017, 11:17:51 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.
He doesn't cost any cap space since he is a free agent.  Which is why I just don't buy that argument especially given his price.
Depending on who he was traded for of course he would take up cap space.

If he was traded for expiring contracts his cap hold would have eaten into the max cap space available.

If he was traded for someone who was still going to be under contract for next year, depending on how much salary went out, a part of his $10.9 million cap hold would eat into the cap space available for a max free agent

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #156 on: March 28, 2017, 11:29:55 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.
He doesn't cost any cap space since he is a free agent.  Which is why I just don't buy that argument especially given his price.
Depending on who he was traded for of course he would take up cap space.

If he was traded for expiring contracts his cap hold would have eaten into the max cap space available.

If he was traded for someone who was still going to be under contract for next year, depending on how much salary went out, a part of his $10.9 million cap hold would eat into the cap space available for a max free agent
But you don't have to have a cap hold.  You can just let him go if you need the space to sign someone else.  So he takes up no cap space.  In fact if he was traded for say Rozier, you would have actually created cap space by letting him go because you wouldn't have Rozier's contract on the books. 

Given how shaky Cleveland looked at the deadline (which has continued) and with Durant injured, this was a prime time for Boston to make that sort of minor move, which might have actually you know helped the team this year.  This hanging onto what might be someday stuff doesn't work all that well when you had a top 2 team in the conference at the deadline.  Make the moves, improve the team, and try to win the championship this year, especially when you aren't giving up much of anything to do it.  Look if Noel had cost a ton, I get not wanting to give up real assets for a potential rental, but Noel went for a mid tier prospect and some 2nd rounders.  Boston has plenty of those and isn't going to be able to fit them all on the team in the future anyway. 
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Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #157 on: March 28, 2017, 12:15:23 PM »

Offline Fireworks_Boom!

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So you would want to trade Rozier and his 3 seasons left on a cap friendly, rookie scale contract for a 3 month rental of Noel???

Glad you're not GM...

Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.
He doesn't cost any cap space since he is a free agent.  Which is why I just don't buy that argument especially given his price.
Depending on who he was traded for of course he would take up cap space.

If he was traded for expiring contracts his cap hold would have eaten into the max cap space available.

If he was traded for someone who was still going to be under contract for next year, depending on how much salary went out, a part of his $10.9 million cap hold would eat into the cap space available for a max free agent
But you don't have to have a cap hold.  You can just let him go if you need the space to sign someone else.  So he takes up no cap space.  In fact if he was traded for say Rozier, you would have actually created cap space by letting him go because you wouldn't have Rozier's contract on the books. 

Given how shaky Cleveland looked at the deadline (which has continued) and with Durant injured, this was a prime time for Boston to make that sort of minor move, which might have actually you know helped the team this year.  This hanging onto what might be someday stuff doesn't work all that well when you had a top 2 team in the conference at the deadline.  Make the moves, improve the team, and try to win the championship this year, especially when you aren't giving up much of anything to do it.  Look if Noel had cost a ton, I get not wanting to give up real assets for a potential rental, but Noel went for a mid tier prospect and some 2nd rounders.  Boston has plenty of those and isn't going to be able to fit them all on the team in the future anyway.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #158 on: March 28, 2017, 01:04:49 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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So you would want to trade Rozier and his 3 seasons left on a cap friendly, rookie scale contract for a 3 month rental of Noel???

Yes, I probably would have made that deal.  What's the point of having a cap friendly rookie contract for a player that can't crack the playoff rotation?  Makes me a bad GM I guess, but then few people anticipated 1st place so they are just bad prognosticators.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #159 on: March 28, 2017, 01:22:57 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.
He doesn't cost any cap space since he is a free agent.  Which is why I just don't buy that argument especially given his price.
Depending on who he was traded for of course he would take up cap space.

If he was traded for expiring contracts his cap hold would have eaten into the max cap space available.

If he was traded for someone who was still going to be under contract for next year, depending on how much salary went out, a part of his $10.9 million cap hold would eat into the cap space available for a max free agent
But you don't have to have a cap hold.  You can just let him go if you need the space to sign someone else.  So he takes up no cap space.  In fact if he was traded for say Rozier, you would have actually created cap space by letting him go because you wouldn't have Rozier's contract on the books. 

Given how shaky Cleveland looked at the deadline (which has continued) and with Durant injured, this was a prime time for Boston to make that sort of minor move, which might have actually you know helped the team this year.  This hanging onto what might be someday stuff doesn't work all that well when you had a top 2 team in the conference at the deadline.  Make the moves, improve the team, and try to win the championship this year, especially when you aren't giving up much of anything to do it.  Look if Noel had cost a ton, I get not wanting to give up real assets for a potential rental, but Noel went for a mid tier prospect and some 2nd rounders.  Boston has plenty of those and isn't going to be able to fit them all on the team in the future anyway.

I agree with you on this.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #160 on: March 28, 2017, 01:25:08 PM »

Offline Moranis

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So you would want to trade Rozier and his 3 seasons left on a cap friendly, rookie scale contract for a 3 month rental of Noel???

Glad you're not GM...
Absolutely.  Rozier isn't any good.   Rozier is a terrible shooter, terrible passer, can't initiate the offense, and is a poor defender.  The only thing he does reasonably well is rebound the ball.  He won't be in the playoff rotation this year and may not even be on the team next year, especially if Fultz or Ball gets drafted.  Frankly, I'd be pretty surprised if Rozier last his entire 4 year rookie contract on the Celtics and wouldn't be all that surprised if he doesn't even get a second contract.  I don't even think Boston could have traded Rozier and a couple of 2nds to Philly to acquire Noel as I think Anderson is better prospect than Rozier is, but it would have been worth the try because Noel actually would have had a place on the team both this year and long term (assuming someone better didn't come along in free agency).  I'd also rather have used a cap hold on Noel than Olynyk, so if I'm picking which player to let go, that is an easy choice. 
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Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #161 on: March 28, 2017, 01:38:26 PM »

Offline Diggles

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So you would want to trade Rozier and his 3 seasons left on a cap friendly, rookie scale contract for a 3 month rental of Noel???

Glad you're not GM...
Absolutely.  Rozier isn't any good.   Rozier is a terrible shooter, terrible passer, can't initiate the offense, and is a poor defender.  The only thing he does reasonably well is rebound the ball.  He won't be in the playoff rotation this year and may not even be on the team next year, especially if Fultz or Ball gets drafted.  Frankly, I'd be pretty surprised if Rozier last his entire 4 year rookie contract on the Celtics and wouldn't be all that surprised if he doesn't even get a second contract.  I don't even think Boston could have traded Rozier and a couple of 2nds to Philly to acquire Noel as I think Anderson is better prospect than Rozier is, but it would have been worth the try because Noel actually would have had a place on the team both this year and long term (assuming someone better didn't come along in free agency).  I'd also rather have used a cap hold on Noel than Olynyk, so if I'm picking which player to let go, that is an easy choice.


I'd be willing to bet you my celtics blog membership to yours....that T Rozier gets another contract in the NBA after this one is up.   This kid has a lot of talent and is only gaining confidence.   
Diggles

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #162 on: March 28, 2017, 02:03:50 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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So you would want to trade Rozier and his 3 seasons left on a cap friendly, rookie scale contract for a 3 month rental of Noel???

Glad you're not GM...
Absolutely.  Rozier isn't any good.   Rozier is a terrible shooter, terrible passer, can't initiate the offense, and is a poor defender.  The only thing he does reasonably well is rebound the ball.  He won't be in the playoff rotation this year and may not even be on the team next year, especially if Fultz or Ball gets drafted. Frankly, I'd be pretty surprised if Rozier last his entire 4 year rookie contract on the Celtics and wouldn't be all that surprised if he doesn't even get a second contract. I don't even think Boston could have traded Rozier and a couple of 2nds to Philly to acquire Noel as I think Anderson is better prospect than Rozier is, but it would have been worth the try because Noel actually would have had a place on the team both this year and long term (assuming someone better didn't come along in free agency).  I'd also rather have used a cap hold on Noel than Olynyk, so if I'm picking which player to let go, that is an easy choice.

Well I knew we couldn't get two in a row. Rozier was coveted at the deadline by Orlando in an Ibaka trade and has even showed he could perform a bit in last year's playoffs. There are a lot of NBA worthy guards that would not get a ton of minutes on a team with Smart, Bradley and IT (and occasionally Jaylen Brown).

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #163 on: March 28, 2017, 02:06:52 PM »

Offline moiso

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So you would want to trade Rozier and his 3 seasons left on a cap friendly, rookie scale contract for a 3 month rental of Noel???

Glad you're not GM...
Absolutely.  Rozier isn't any good.   Rozier is a terrible shooter, terrible passer, can't initiate the offense, and is a poor defender.  The only thing he does reasonably well is rebound the ball.  He won't be in the playoff rotation this year and may not even be on the team next year, especially if Fultz or Ball gets drafted.  Frankly, I'd be pretty surprised if Rozier last his entire 4 year rookie contract on the Celtics and wouldn't be all that surprised if he doesn't even get a second contract.  I don't even think Boston could have traded Rozier and a couple of 2nds to Philly to acquire Noel as I think Anderson is better prospect than Rozier is, but it would have been worth the try because Noel actually would have had a place on the team both this year and long term (assuming someone better didn't come along in free agency).  I'd also rather have used a cap hold on Noel than Olynyk, so if I'm picking which player to let go, that is an easy choice.
Rozier is a much better 3 point shooter, rebounder, and passer than Justin Anderson.

Re: Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?
« Reply #164 on: March 28, 2017, 02:16:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Cap space. Cap space. Cap space.

The end.
He doesn't cost any cap space since he is a free agent.  Which is why I just don't buy that argument especially given his price.
Depending on who he was traded for of course he would take up cap space.

If he was traded for expiring contracts his cap hold would have eaten into the max cap space available.

If he was traded for someone who was still going to be under contract for next year, depending on how much salary went out, a part of his $10.9 million cap hold would eat into the cap space available for a max free agent
But you don't have to have a cap hold.  You can just let him go if you need the space to sign someone else.  So he takes up no cap space.  In fact if he was traded for say Rozier, you would have actually created cap space by letting him go because you wouldn't have Rozier's contract on the books. 

Given how shaky Cleveland looked at the deadline (which has continued) and with Durant injured, this was a prime time for Boston to make that sort of minor move, which might have actually you know helped the team this year.  This hanging onto what might be someday stuff doesn't work all that well when you had a top 2 team in the conference at the deadline.  Make the moves, improve the team, and try to win the championship this year, especially when you aren't giving up much of anything to do it.  Look if Noel had cost a ton, I get not wanting to give up real assets for a potential rental, but Noel went for a mid tier prospect and some 2nd rounders.  Boston has plenty of those and isn't going to be able to fit them all on the team in the future anyway.
Ainge wouldn't trade assets for a three month rental of Noel. He wouldn't do it for Ibaka so he wouldn't do it for Noel. If he traded for Noel it would have been to attempt to keep him long term so Noel's cap hold would certainly have cut into cap space for a max free agent.