Noel Frustration: Celtics trade coming?

[crimson_stallion]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

[celticsclay]

Noel and Brown had a little chat and Noel is getting with the program for now. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18298959/philadelphia-76ers-center-nerlens-noel-meets-coach-brett-brown-playing-concerns

Lol. What is the saying, I've got a bridge to sell ya if you believe that

[celticsclay]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

[crimson_stallion]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

[Ilikesports17]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

It wouldn't be dumb at all if you believe our timeline for contention begins ~2020.

[Ilikesports17]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

It wouldn't be dumb at all if you believe our timeline for contention begins ~2020.

Why is that?

[chambers]

As has been hashed out on this board over and over again, getting Noel means one of two things. It means you are only getting half a season of rental of him, or you are punting on even the possibility of a max free agent next year. Even if we got a steal and signed Noel to 10m/year (probably unrealistic,) then you are saying "Nah, we will pass on even the remote possibility of trying to woo Griffin or Hayward."

Many of us may be willing to do that, but Ainge most likely isnt at this point.

The new CBA may effectively squash Ainge's hope of landing a big FA and therefore increase interest in the Noel Option.

I think sign and trades will still be allowed though wont they?
Certainly wont be impossible if SnTs are still allowed.

[crimson_stallion]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

In what way is it harsh?

He's in his third NBA season and has a career average of 3.3 assists per game and 2.3 Assists-Per-Turnover in 28 minutes.

Those numbers are well below par for an NBA PG, and are quite average even by combo guard standards. 

Jason Terry averaged 2.2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Keeyon Dooling averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
JJ Reddick averaged 1.9 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Eddie House averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career

Those guys aren't exactly hot shot playmakers.

Smart has decent court vision, which is offset by sub-par decision making ability and terrible ball handling skills.

As for his potential, this is Smart's third season in the league, and here's how his Per 36 stats have gone so far:

2014/15: 
10.4 pts, 4.4 reb, 4.1 ast, 2.0 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.8 to, 3.5 pf, 36.7% fg, 33.5% 3pt, 64.6% ft

2015/16:
12.1 Pts, 5.5 reb, 4.0 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.7 to, 4.0 pf, 34.8% FG, 25.3% 3pt, 77.7% ft

2016/17:
11.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 5.1 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 2.3 to, 2.7 pf, 37.2% FG, 27.6% 3pt, 64.0% ft

* His assist/TO are at a career low
* His advanced stats (RPM, etc) have gotten worse since his rookie year
* He's shown no desire to improve his shot selection (5.4 3PT attempts Per 36 @ 27.6%)
* He's shown no improvement at gettign to the basket (22.4% FTR is lowest of his career)
* He's shown no desire to tone down his rediculous flopping antics

With the exception of an improved mid-range game, he's shown next to no improvement in three seasons.

The guy is a complete trainwreck.  The only things he has going for him are that he's an above average defensive player, and that he plays hard.  That's it.

He's going to be a Matt Barnes/Kendrick Perkins kind of player - one of those guys who will bounce around the league as a bench player who teams bring in to provide a bit of energy and toughness, at the expense of a bit of crazy and emotional instability.

He'll never be anything more then that.  He should cherish his role this year as a ~30 MPG player, because he'll probably never have a role that big again in his career....unless he gets traded to Philly.

The biggest worry is that guys like that (Matt Barnes, Shane Batter, Bruce Bowen, Derek Fisher, etc) were all quality three point shooters, and it was their annoying defence combined with their ability to hit open threes that allowed them to forge long careers. 

Smart can't hit a three to save his life. 

What role is there in this league for a 6'4" defensive role player who can't shoot, can't dribble, and isn't a great playmaker?

Best case scenario for smart is that he develops into a 33% - 34% three point shooter and builds himself a long career as a taller Derek Fisher, a fringe starter on a team full of scorers that desperately needs defence and toughness. 

He'd be a nice fit on a team like Cleveland or Golden State, for example.

That's really about it - his upside really is pretty near to non existent.

[jpotter33]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

I'd really like to know where you pulled this from, but I have a pretty good clue. 

A severe lack of discipline? That's a rather strange and totally out of the blue comment that makes no sort of sense whatsoever.

Approximately zero upside? Below average PG skills? Both highly inaccurate, blatantly false claims.

I think your rather noted dislike of Smart is clouding your judgment here. I can see an argument of Smart for Noel, but you're making up completely baseless reasons to support that thesis.

[jpotter33]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

In what way is it harsh?

He's in his third NBA season and has a career average of 3.3 assists per game and 2.3 Assists-Per-Turnover in 28 minutes.

Those numbers are well below par for an NBA PG, and are quite average even by combo guard standards. 

Jason Terry averaged 2.2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Keeyon Dooling averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
JJ Reddick averaged 1.9 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Eddie House averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career

Those guys aren't exactly hot shot playmakers.

Smart has decent court vision, which is offset by sub-par decision making ability and terrible ball handling skills.

As for his potential, this is Smart's third season in the league, and here's how his Per 36 stats have gone so far:

2014/15: 
10.4 pts, 4.4 reb, 4.1 ast, 2.0 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.8 to, 3.5 pf, 36.7% fg, 33.5% 3pt, 64.6% ft

2015/16:
12.1 Pts, 5.5 reb, 4.0 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.7 to, 4.0 pf, 34.8% FG, 25.3% 3pt, 77.7% ft

2016/17:
11.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 5.1 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 2.3 to, 2.7 pf, 37.2% FG, 27.6% 3pt, 64.0% ft

* His assist/TO are at a career low
* His advanced stats (RPM, etc) have gotten worse since his rookie year
* He's shown no desire to improve his shot selection (5.4 3PT attempts Per 36 @ 27.6%)
* He's shown no improvement at gettign to the basket (22.4% FTR is lowest of his career)
* He's shown no desire to tone down his rediculous flopping antics

The guy is a complete trainwreck.  The only things he has going for him are that he's an above average defensive player, and that he plays hard.  That's it.

He's going to be a Matt Barnes/Kendrick Perkins kind of player - one of those guys who will bounce around the league as a bench player who teams bring in to provide a bit of energy and toughness, at the expense of a bit of crazy and emotional instability.

He'll never be anything more then that.  He should cherish his role this year as a ~30 MPG player, because he'll probably never have a role that big again in his career....unless he gets traded to Philly.

Ha! Yeah, another completely biased analysis that ignores any hint of context. Let's totally ignore the fact that for his first two years he was never A) a primary ball-handler, or B) even a secondary ball-handler (always IT or Turner). He played almost entirely off the ball. But, oh my, look at those low assist numbers! 

It seems to be a pretty common trend amongst the major Smart haters to ignore any semblance of context and interpret evidence to best fit their narrative.

And by the way, those bold sentences pretty much destroy any bit of credibility that your analysis has. Total craziness. It's just funny that he keeps getting playing time on such a good team with as bad as y'all make him out to be.

[crimson_stallion]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

I'd really like to know where you pulled this from, but I have a pretty good clue. 

A severe lack of discipline? That's a rather strange and totally out of the blue comment that makes no sort of sense whatsoever.

Approximately zero upside? Below average PG skills? Both highly inaccurate, blatantly false claims.

I think your rather noted dislike of Smart is clouding your judgment here. I can see an argument of Smart for Noel, but you're making up completely baseless reasons to support that thesis.

It's all accurate, you're just allowing your personal judgement to blind your ability to be objective.

I'm a Celtics fan.  I want to like Celtics players.  I gave Sully the benefit of the doubt for 2-3 years before I finally accepted he was a lost cause. 

Smart is following the same path.

Yes, he lacks discipline.  How many times has he already made it on Shaqtin a Fool with his rediculous flop attempts?  How many flopping fines does he have?  How many three point shots has he attempted per game in every single season so far, relative to his ghastly shooting ability?

Knowing you can't shoot, but shooting anyway - that's a lack of discipline.  Trying to flop when you should just be playing sound defense - that's a lack of discipline.  Arguing to officials constantly - that's lack of discipline.  He's had these same discipline issues since his college days, and none of it has changed.

Below average PG skills - I've already demonstrated that in my earlier post, not that I really needed to.  Watching the guy for 15 minutes in any game (bar one of the good ones that comes every 4 or 5 games) and it's blatantly obvious that he is no PG.  The stats only serve as further evidence of this.

Lack of upside - again, I've already demonstrated this. He's still the EXACT same player he was in college with the exception of one single improvement - his mid-range game.  That's one single aspect of his game that he has improved over the course of more than 3 years, from his freshman year of college to now. 

Why hasn't he gotten better? 

Two reasons. 
1) His lack of discipline
2) His straight up lack of talent

Smart is in the league because he plays really hard ever single night, because he's tough, and because he is an incredibly hard worker.  They are all great character traits, and it's because of those traits that he's able to overcome his completely lack of talent, and remain an effective and somewhat productive backup guard in the NBA.

But effort and work ethic can only get you so far.  To be great you need work ethic, you need discipline, and you need talent.  Smart has only one out of the three, and that's not enough.

Brandon Bass had two of the three (effort and work ethic) and from that he was able to work himself into a solid role as a quality starter for several years.  So maybe if Smart gets his head together, one day he could be a Brandon Bass caliber player.  MAYBE.

He'll never be better then that because that requires talent, which he does not have.   

[crimson_stallion]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

In what way is it harsh?

He's in his third NBA season and has a career average of 3.3 assists per game and 2.3 Assists-Per-Turnover in 28 minutes.

Those numbers are well below par for an NBA PG, and are quite average even by combo guard standards. 

Jason Terry averaged 2.2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Keeyon Dooling averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
JJ Reddick averaged 1.9 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Eddie House averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career

Those guys aren't exactly hot shot playmakers.

Smart has decent court vision, which is offset by sub-par decision making ability and terrible ball handling skills.

As for his potential, this is Smart's third season in the league, and here's how his Per 36 stats have gone so far:

2014/15: 
10.4 pts, 4.4 reb, 4.1 ast, 2.0 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.8 to, 3.5 pf, 36.7% fg, 33.5% 3pt, 64.6% ft

2015/16:
12.1 Pts, 5.5 reb, 4.0 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.7 to, 4.0 pf, 34.8% FG, 25.3% 3pt, 77.7% ft

2016/17:
11.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 5.1 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 2.3 to, 2.7 pf, 37.2% FG, 27.6% 3pt, 64.0% ft

* His assist/TO are at a career low
* His advanced stats (RPM, etc) have gotten worse since his rookie year
* He's shown no desire to improve his shot selection (5.4 3PT attempts Per 36 @ 27.6%)
* He's shown no improvement at gettign to the basket (22.4% FTR is lowest of his career)
* He's shown no desire to tone down his rediculous flopping antics

The guy is a complete trainwreck.  The only things he has going for him are that he's an above average defensive player, and that he plays hard.  That's it.

He's going to be a Matt Barnes/Kendrick Perkins kind of player - one of those guys who will bounce around the league as a bench player who teams bring in to provide a bit of energy and toughness, at the expense of a bit of crazy and emotional instability.

He'll never be anything more then that.  He should cherish his role this year as a ~30 MPG player, because he'll probably never have a role that big again in his career....unless he gets traded to Philly.

Ha! Yeah, another completely biased analysis that ignores any hint of context. Let's totally ignore the fact that for his first two years he was never A) a primary ball-handler, or B) even a secondary ball-handler (always IT or Turner). He played almost entirely off the ball. But, oh my, look at those low assist numbers! 

It seems to be a pretty common trend amongst the major Smart haters to ignore any semblance of context and interpret evidence to best fit their narrative.

And by the way, those bold sentences pretty much destroy any bit of credibility that your analysis has. Total craziness. It's just funny that he keeps getting playing time on such a good team with as bad as y'all make him out to be.

* In 2014/15 Smart spent 74% of his time at the PG spot and 26% at the SG spot
* In 2015/16 he spent 42% of his time at the PG spot and 57% at the SG spot
* In 2016/17 he's spent 16% at the PG spot and 80% at the SG spot

His assist numbers in his first year (where he spent 75% of his time at PG) were not significantly better then they were in his second year (where he spent 42% of his time at PG) which in turn were not significantly better then his third year (where he's spent only 16% of his time at the PG spot).

Smart's percentage of time at the PG spot has gone down significantly every year, and why?  Because he doesn't have PG skills. 

His rookie year he played PG because there was no choice - we didn't have another passable PG. 

His second year he started much of the season at PG, until Brad discovered that we were playing like garbage and started Thomas over him - at which point we started winning games. Shock, that. 

His third year he's barely played PG because by now everybody in the Celtics organisation has discovered that he lacks the skills to ever be a full time PG.

Smart has played about 108 minutes at the PG spot this year.  Terry Rozier has played a total of about 382 minutes at the PG spot this year.  Your logic above was that Smart is playing 30 MPG because he is a good player - better player means more minutes.  Well Terry Rozier is playing almost 4x as many minutes at the PG spot as Smart is so, based on your logic, what does that say about Smart's ability to play the PG spot?

Also how many minutes Smart played at which guard position is irrelevant when analysing his assist-to-turnover ratio.  Playing off guard more should mean he has the ball in his hands less.  This should mean less assists, but should also mean less turnovers.  Yet Smart's turnover average (1.9 per game) this season is, by far, the highest of his career. 

As I said, the guy has pretty decent court vision, but he's a terrible decision maker and is a poor ball handler.  These are facts, and they are weaknesses of his that have been well documented ever since his college days - look up his draftexpress videos if you don't believe me.

Again - your personal bias is blinding you.

If Marcus Smart was averaging 10 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assists in 30 minutes (while shooting 37%/28%/64%) on ANY other team...and somebody proposed we make a trade to bring him here...I can all but guarantee that you would absolutely hate the idea with a passion.

Guys defend Smart because he wears a Celtics uniform, but if he was in any other jersey you would all say that he's a scrub.

Who here talk about Elfrid Payton, for example?  He's a significantly better PG then Smart is and nobody here says a word about him.

[celticsclay]

I would do any one of these three deals:

Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart + James Young
to
Milwaukee
for
Greg Monroe


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Nerlens Noel + $11.2M in cap savings


Boston sends
Amir Johnson + Marcus Smart
to
Philadelphia
for
Jahlil Okafor + $10.7M in cap savings

If any one of those deals is on the table, I'm taking it without a moment's hesitation.

Nobody would trade smart for Noel right now lol

Smart is a defensive role player with no jump shot, below average PG skills, a severe lack of discipline, and approximately zero upside. 

The sooner we accept that and move on, the better it will be for us all.

Below average point guard skills and 0 upside seem a bit harsh and trading Smart for Noel would be dumb.

In what way is it harsh?

He's in his third NBA season and has a career average of 3.3 assists per game and 2.3 Assists-Per-Turnover in 28 minutes.

Those numbers are well below par for an NBA PG, and are quite average even by combo guard standards. 

Jason Terry averaged 2.2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Keeyon Dooling averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career
JJ Reddick averaged 1.9 Assists Per Turnover for his career
Eddie House averaged 2 Assists Per Turnover for his career

Those guys aren't exactly hot shot playmakers.

Smart has decent court vision, which is offset by sub-par decision making ability and terrible ball handling skills.

As for his potential, this is Smart's third season in the league, and here's how his Per 36 stats have gone so far:

2014/15: 
10.4 pts, 4.4 reb, 4.1 ast, 2.0 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.8 to, 3.5 pf, 36.7% fg, 33.5% 3pt, 64.6% ft

2015/16:
12.1 Pts, 5.5 reb, 4.0 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 1.7 to, 4.0 pf, 34.8% FG, 25.3% 3pt, 77.7% ft

2016/17:
11.6 pts, 4.9 reb, 5.1 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.4 blk, 2.3 to, 2.7 pf, 37.2% FG, 27.6% 3pt, 64.0% ft

* His assist/TO are at a career low
* His advanced stats (RPM, etc) have gotten worse since his rookie year
* He's shown no desire to improve his shot selection (5.4 3PT attempts Per 36 @ 27.6%)
* He's shown no improvement at gettign to the basket (22.4% FTR is lowest of his career)
* He's shown no desire to tone down his rediculous flopping antics

The guy is a complete trainwreck.  The only things he has going for him are that he's an above average defensive player, and that he plays hard.  That's it.

He's going to be a Matt Barnes/Kendrick Perkins kind of player - one of those guys who will bounce around the league as a bench player who teams bring in to provide a bit of energy and toughness, at the expense of a bit of crazy and emotional instability.

He'll never be anything more then that.  He should cherish his role this year as a ~30 MPG player, because he'll probably never have a role that big again in his career....unless he gets traded to Philly.

Ha! Yeah, another completely biased analysis that ignores any hint of context. Let's totally ignore the fact that for his first two years he was never A) a primary ball-handler, or B) even a secondary ball-handler (always IT or Turner). He played almost entirely off the ball. But, oh my, look at those low assist numbers! 

It seems to be a pretty common trend amongst the major Smart haters to ignore any semblance of context and interpret evidence to best fit their narrative.

And by the way, those bold sentences pretty much destroy any bit of credibility that your analysis has. Total craziness. It's just funny that he keeps getting playing time on such a good team with as bad as y'all make him out to be.

* In 2014/15 Smart spent 74% of his time at the PG spot and 26% at the SG spot
* In 2015/16 he spent 42% of his time at the PG spot and 57% at the SG spot
* In 2016/17 he's spent 16% at the PG spot and 80% at the SG spot

His assist numbers in his first year (where he spent 75% of his time at PG) were not significantly better then they were in his second year (where he spent 42% of his time at PG) which in turn were not significantly better then his third year (where he's spent only 16% of his time at the PG spot).

Smart's percentage of time at the PG spot has gone down significantly every year, and why?  Because he doesn't have PG skills. 

His rookie year he played PG because there was no choice - we didn't have another passable PG. 

His second year he started much of the season at PG, until Brad discovered that we were playing like garbage and started Thomas over him - at which point we started winning games. Shock, that. 

His third year he's barely played PG because by now everybody in the Celtics organisation has discovered that he lacks the skills to ever be a full time PG.

Smart has played about 108 minutes at the PG spot this year.  Terry Rozier has played a total of about 382 minutes at the PG spot this year.  Your logic above was that Smart is playing 30 MPG because he is a good player - better player means more minutes.  Well Terry Rozier is playing almost 4x as many minutes at the PG spot as Smart is so, based on your logic, what does that say about Smart's ability to play the PG spot?

Also how many minutes Smart played at which guard position is irrelevant when analysing his assist-to-turnover ratio.  Playing off guard more should mean he has the ball in his hands less.  This should mean less assists, but should also mean less turnovers.  Yet Smart's turnover average (1.9 per game) this season is, by far, the highest of his career. 

As I said, the guy has pretty decent court vision, but he's a terrible decision maker and is a poor ball handler.  These are facts, and they are weaknesses of his that have been well documented ever since his college days - look up his draftexpress videos if you don't believe me.

Again - your personal bias is blinding you.

If Marcus Smart was averaging 10 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assists in 30 minutes (while shooting 37%/28%/64%) on ANY other team...and somebody proposed we make a trade to bring him here...I can all but guarantee that you would absolutely hate the idea with a passion.

Guys defend Smart because he wears a Celtics uniform, but if he was in any other jersey you would all say that he's a scrub.

Who here talk about Elfrid Payton, for example?  He's a significantly better PG then Smart is and nobody here says a word about him.

to be clear I don't think smart is amazing. I think he has more value than a late first round pick. With his situation and character issues that is what Noel is worth

[crimson_stallion]

to be clear I don't think smart is amazing. I think he has more value than a late first round pick. With his situation and character issues that is what Noel is worth

I'm aware of no character issues with Noel - I don't think I've ever heard anything to indicate he has character issues.

I don't think his situation matters that much either.  It only does if you assume that Philly are willing to shortchange themselves just to get him off the roster - but if they decide that want to get fair value, they can just as easily keep him until the end of the year.

 He's a very long and very athletic seven footer with fringe double-double production and elite defensive potential, at 22 years of age. 

In a league where Tristan Thompson and Timofey Mozgov are making not far under $20M a year, Noel is the equivalent of a rough diamond that just needs a lot of polishing.  His raw talent level is very high, but he needs development in a winning environment - something he can't get in Philly.

I'm not going to claim that Noel will become a superstar if he came here, or anything crazy like that.  I don't believe that at all.  But I do believe he could be a game-changing  much like Bogut, Chandler and DeAndre Jordan have been for their teams.